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Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
Was Russia’s Brazen Air Strike On US-Backed Anti-ISIS Fighters A Ploy?
Russian jets are back in Syria, and they faced down F/A-18s during a suspect raid on an obscure outpost.

In what was the most provocative move made by Russia since becoming militarily involved in the conflict in Syria, Russian jets bombed US-backed anti-ISIS fighters last week at a remote garrison located along the Jordanian border. The area is one that Russia has never really been active in even during Moscow’s high-tempo bombing campaign that supposedly ended last March.

According to CNN, the target was a remote staging base near At Tanf, less than a dozen miles from the Jordanian border. About 200 US-backed fighters were at the base at the time of the surprise attack, with an unknown amount killed and wounded during the aerial bombardment.

As the initial air strikes began, personnel at the base sent an emergency message to the Combined Operations Center in Qatar that manages the US-led air campaign. The US then used the emergency communications channel setup between the US and Russia last winter to tell Russia to stop the onslaught.

There was no response.

At the same time, American F/A-18 Hornets were redirected to the area to provide air cover. The Hornets came close enough to the Russian jets to visually identify them as they left the area. The Hornet pilots tried to contact the Russian aircraft on a preassigned frequency that was put in place early last winter because of “deconfliction concerns” between the two nations. There was no answer.

The Hornets stayed overhead the smoldering outpost for a period of time but had to depart briefly to refuel from a tanker. Once they departed the area, the Russian jets vectored back in on the base and struck it once again. The Los Angeles Times states that the Russian aircraft involved in the attack were Su-34 Fullback fighter-bombers while other reports list them as Su-24 Fencer attack jets. Both could be true, with different sets of aircraft attacking the target during the two consecutive waves. The Su-34’s PESA radar and long endurance would have been beneficial to keep tabs on the Hornets so that they would know when the area was vulnerable again for a second strike.

These details raise serious questions. First, is Russia diving back into the Syrian conflict with fixed-wing attack and fighter aircraft? Second, following this brazen airstrike—one where the emergency measures agreed upon by the US and Russia to keep misunderstandings from happening were seemingly jettisoned—what does it mean for the next time US and Russian air power come face-to-face over Syrian territory?

Russia’s never-ending quest to get America’s tactical map of Syria

Secretary of Defense Carter did not mince words in response to the Russian strike:

"Here's a case where they actually attacked forces that were fighting ISIL. And if that was their intention, that's the opposite of what they said they were going to do. If not, then it says something about the quality of the information upon which they make airstrikes."

This statement is meant to question Russia’s true objectives in Syria, but it also may indicate the US in falling into the Kremlin’s trap when it comes to their satisfying their incessant demand for acquiring the Pentagon’s rich intelligence and tactical map of Syria.

In response, the Kremlin claims it is hard to discern who is who on the battlefield. Such a response is damning on multiple levels. First of all, this was a remote outpost far from where Assad’s forces are fighting, and the strike was obviously well planned. Even for Russia, whose air campaign in Syria was dominated by dumb bombs and questionable targeting, striking an outpost on the Jordanian border—literally in the middle of nowhere—not once, but twice, and even after the US had fighters over the target, is too conveniently incompetent.

Then there is the strange silence in the face of US calls to stand down, despite a hotline setup by both parties for just this type of situation—and by the F/A-18 crews themselves. Could Russia’s real goal for this attack have been a strategic one?

Russia has long pushed for "intelligence sharing" with the US. Primarily, this includes the assembly of a common map showing precisely where everyone is on the Syrian battlefield. The US-led coalition has been wary of such an endeavor because it would give Russia all the positions of anti-Assad forces, including the locations of US Special Operations personnel. Considering Russia spent the majority of its time pummeling anti-Assad fighters, not ISIS, during its air campaign, giving them America’s situational map of the conflict sounds like a game of “Russian Roulette” if you will. Also, the idea is that if Russia gets this information so would Assad. As such, these forces could be wiped out by Russian air power on a whim, or even by Assad’s forces as they continue to gain tactical momentum.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/407...ers-a-ploy
06-22-2016 08:56 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

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06-22-2016 09:07 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
Clashing with Russia is never a good thing.
06-22-2016 09:12 AM
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miko33 Away
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
I must ask though...why did the U.S. get involved with a goal to oust Assad? Evidently, our leaders learned nothing from Gulf War 2.
06-22-2016 09:22 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 09:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Clashing with Russia is never a good thing.

this
06-22-2016 09:24 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 09:22 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I must ask though...why did the U.S. get involved with a goal to oust Assad? Evidently, our leaders learned nothing from Gulf War 2.

and this....
06-22-2016 09:24 AM
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 09:22 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I must ask though...why did the U.S. get involved with a goal to oust Assad? Evidently, our leaders learned nothing from Gulf War 2.

I never got a good answer on this. Getting rid of a relatively secular tyrant in that region has not played out very well. Add Libya and Egypt to the list with Saddam Hussein. They always get replaced with something worse and we don't even get any of the oil.
06-22-2016 09:30 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 09:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Clashing with Russia is never a good thing.
Thats why you put a Tomahawk into Assad's bathroom anytime they do this...he ain't Russian.
06-22-2016 09:54 AM
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CardFan1 Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
America & Russia, just like Republicans & Democrats. Each see the other one as being on the wrong side . 2 totally different views on the same problem.Each think They are the Good guys
06-22-2016 10:17 AM
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miko33 Away
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 09:54 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Clashing with Russia is never a good thing.
Thats why you put a Tomahawk into Assad's bathroom anytime they do this...he ain't Russian.

IMHO, leave Assad alone. Like him or not, he keeps the jihadists under control. We can clearly see how no more Saddam in Iraq has turned out.
06-22-2016 10:35 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 09:07 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

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No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.
06-22-2016 10:40 AM
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miko33 Away
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 10:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:07 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

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No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.

Agree 100% with this.
06-22-2016 10:42 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 10:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:07 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

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No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.
I don't give a crap about Assad. But if Russia interferes with our efforts against ISIS, then you put their puppet in the crosshairs each time until they stop.





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06-22-2016 10:51 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 10:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:54 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Clashing with Russia is never a good thing.
Thats why you put a Tomahawk into Assad's bathroom anytime they do this...he ain't Russian.

IMHO, leave Assad alone. Like him or not, he keeps the jihadists under control. We can clearly see how no more Saddam in Iraq has turned out.

His buddies (Russia) are interfering with our attacks on ISIS....which is not "keeping them under control". So he should get a Tomahawk until he tells his buddies to cut it out.
06-22-2016 10:53 AM
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 10:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:07 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

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No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.
I don't give a crap about Assad. But if Russia interferes with our efforts against ISIS, then you put their puppet in the crosshairs each time until they stop.





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It could be argued that we are interfering with Russia's efforts against ISIS by going against Assad.
06-22-2016 10:58 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 10:53 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:35 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:54 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Clashing with Russia is never a good thing.
Thats why you put a Tomahawk into Assad's bathroom anytime they do this...he ain't Russian.

IMHO, leave Assad alone. Like him or not, he keeps the jihadists under control. We can clearly see how no more Saddam in Iraq has turned out.

His buddies (Russia) are interfering with our attacks on ISIS....which is not "keeping them under control". So he should get a Tomahawk until he tells his buddies to cut it out.

Look, here's what's going on.

1) Russia and Assad really aren't attacking ISIS. They're attacking the Kurds and the non-ISIS opposition to Assad for the most part.

2) There are no good actors in the region. Any faction that wins is bad news for US interests. Al Nusra? No thank you. Assad? No thank you. ISIS? No thank you.

3) The Kurds are not a great actor but a not awful one. The best US action is to help them in minor ways. We've already dumped 100 billion on them or more. If they won't fight, then lets cut our losses. Obama has been smart to limit our support of them to the bare minimum and say to them "you need to fight".

---

From a cynical perspective, one can make the case that Syria in chaos keeps all the anti-Americans in the region tied down and fighting each other. I think that a solution should be sought because the situation today can spiral into something else in the future. But in the absence of any credible player to solve it, I can't recommend strong US action in that area.
06-22-2016 11:06 AM
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:07 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

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No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.
I don't give a crap about Assad. But if Russia interferes with our efforts against ISIS, then you put their puppet in the crosshairs each time until they stop.





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It could be argued that we are interfering with Russia's efforts against ISIS by going against Assad.

Russia is aimed at propping up Assad. Our anti-ISIS people don't like Assad any more than ISIS does. So Russia is targeting our allies first because it helps Assad AND sticks a finger in our eye.

So Assad gets a Tomahawk anytime Russia does that.

For the finger in the eye...not because of Assad.

Russia will concentrate on ISIS as soon as they understand that attacking our forces is gonna get their puppet killed.
06-22-2016 11:06 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 11:06 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:07 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.
I don't give a crap about Assad. But if Russia interferes with our efforts against ISIS, then you put their puppet in the crosshairs each time until they stop.





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It could be argued that we are interfering with Russia's efforts against ISIS by going against Assad.

Russia is aimed at propping up Assad. Our anti-ISIS people don't like Assad any more than ISIS does. So Russia is targeting our allies first because it helps Assad AND sticks a finger in our eye.

So Assad gets a Tomahawk anytime Russia does that.

For the finger in the eye...not because of Assad.

Russia will concentrate on ISIS as soon as they understand that attacking our forces is gonna get their puppet killed.

Do we really want Assad whacked at this point? Sure at some point I would think that the US wants Assad gone, but do you really think that taking Assad out of the equation right now would be a good thing for the US? The two strongest actors other than Assad are ISIS and the Al-Qaida aligned Al Nusra Front. A vacuum at this point would simply trade Assad for one of those groups.
06-22-2016 11:08 AM
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 11:06 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 09:07 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Simple. Put Tomahawks into Assad's assets every time they do this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.
I don't give a crap about Assad. But if Russia interferes with our efforts against ISIS, then you put their puppet in the crosshairs each time until they stop.





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It could be argued that we are interfering with Russia's efforts against ISIS by going against Assad.

Russia is aimed at propping up Assad. Our anti-ISIS people don't like Assad any more than ISIS does. So Russia is targeting our allies first because it helps Assad AND sticks a finger in our eye.

So Assad gets a Tomahawk anytime Russia does that.

For the finger in the eye...not because of Assad.

Russia will concentrate on ISIS as soon as they understand that attacking our forces is gonna get their puppet killed.

Who are our allies you speak of? Assad loyalists are fighting against ISIS. Is there some kind of 3rd party in play here, and if so, what is there vision? Best I can tell that question hasn't been answered yet. It certainly wasn't answered back when Obama, Hillary, McCain, and Graham wanted to commit troops. If you can tell me there is, indeed, a 3rd party that is secular, has any chance of winning the hearts and minds, and is loyal to the West, maybe I'd consider (though I still don't see why it is in our interest to be involved).
06-22-2016 11:11 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Russian Air Force bombs base of US Backed Rebels. US Jets respond.
(06-22-2016 11:08 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 11:06 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:58 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-22-2016 10:40 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  No. Stay out it as much as possible.

Putin is now mired in a conflict that he can't win and he can't leave.

Even if Assad somehow 'wins', Russia will be stuck there for decades economically and or militarily. Unless Putin wants to 'turn tail'. And Putin won't be doing that, even if it is in Russia's best interest to do so.
I don't give a crap about Assad. But if Russia interferes with our efforts against ISIS, then you put their puppet in the crosshairs each time until they stop.





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It could be argued that we are interfering with Russia's efforts against ISIS by going against Assad.

Russia is aimed at propping up Assad. Our anti-ISIS people don't like Assad any more than ISIS does. So Russia is targeting our allies first because it helps Assad AND sticks a finger in our eye.

So Assad gets a Tomahawk anytime Russia does that.

For the finger in the eye...not because of Assad.

Russia will concentrate on ISIS as soon as they understand that attacking our forces is gonna get their puppet killed.

Do we really want Assad whacked at this point? Sure at some point I would think that the US wants Assad gone, but do you really think that taking Assad out of the equation right now would be a good thing for the US? The two strongest actors other than Assad are ISIS and the Al-Qaida aligned Al Nusra Front. A vacuum at this point would simply trade Assad for one of those groups.

No, I'm not really focused on having Assad whacked. I really don't care.

My focus is on making Putin understand you can't play these little games with the United States with no consequences.

He played little games with the Turks and got his jets taken out.

We probably want to refrain from doing that but blowing up their proxy's toilet might get the message through.
06-22-2016 11:15 AM
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