(05-24-2016 02:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 01:43 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 01:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The problem is that the pro teams have zero credibility with the LGBT community as a result of their refusal to hire members of our community.

How many sacrificial hires would be appropriate? Please clearly show the math required to "gain credibility" within the LGBT community.

(05-24-2016 01:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Due to our concentration in large cities, we end up paying thru taxes and must carry cable deals a far greater share of the costs of these teams subsidies than the general public.

Did you seriously just post that gays are angry about un-proportional cable fees?

"Hey hey, ho ho, higher un-porportional cable fees subsidizing baseball teams have go to go ho ho"

(05-24-2016 01:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  What do we get for our money? I wish people would get upset about that.

Funny, I feel the same thing about public radio, welfare, supporting the arts and and other liberal totems......

How about tossing out anti gay groups from the lockerrooms, banning owners that support employment discrimination (McNair), removing awards from people who advocate not hiring Gay players (Dungy), firing homophobic coaches (Vikings) who advocate violence towards LGBT persons, and end to firing players simply because they support LGBT rights (Kluwe), firing scouts that attempt to weed out players based upon a rumor they might be gay (Broncos), etc. Zero out tens of thousands of game day NFL players, coaches, and scouts is hard to justify based upon numbers. There are Gay players. They just face a horrendously hostile work environment.

No Gay players, no Gay coaches, no Gay scouts...ever. And the league enables anti Gay behavior from its owners, and its players.

Absolutely agree, it is about time the Rooney rule include the LGBT community. Anybody who tries to force an anti-LGBT agenda should be forced out like Sterling. It is about time the sports world joins 2016.

(05-24-2016 02:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  and end to firing players simply because they support LGBT rights (Kluwe)

Are you still trotting out this tired old myth?

Kluwe was released by the Vikings because of performance, he was coming off knee surgery, and they drafted his replacement in the draft that year and would be able to free up salary cap space.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/924697...s-released

Quote:It was a move similar to last season when the Vikings drafted kicker Blair Walsh in the sixth round and quickly released the more experienced, and more expensive, Ryan Longwell.

Kluwe, 31, had one year remaining on his contract. He earned national attention last year for his support of gay marriage.

Kluwe averaged 44.4 yards per punt over his career in Minnesota, including a career-high 39.7 yard net average last season. But he ranked just 17th in the NFL in punting and was due to make $1.45 million this season, making him a prime target to be cut.

http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/Vi...dcd8df113a

Quote:The objective evidence, in addition to the subjective evaluation of coaches, special teams staff members and external evaluators, simply contradict Kluwe’s view of his performance in 2012. No interviewed witness agreed that Kluwe had a good year in 2012…There is also the issue of Kluwe’s age (31) and salary ($1.3 million) in 2012 and slated salary of $1.4 million in 2013. Several coaching staff members noted that Kluwe’s age, previous knee injury and leg strength showed a punter in decline. Also, the Vikings were able to sign drafted punter (Jeff) Locke for $405,000, less than one third of Kluwe’s scheduled 2013 salary…In grading Kluwe, (Angelo and Hentrich) considered criteria, including but not limited to: (1) get-off time; (2) gross punting average; (3) net punting average; (4) hang time; (5) directional punting; and (6) pooch punting…Angelo said that if he held the title of General Manager for the Minnesota Vikings for the 2012 season, he would have “in all likelihood” released Chris Kluwe as the Vikings punter.”

(05-24-2016 02:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  How about tossing out anti gay groups from the lockerrooms, banning owners that support employment discrimination (McNair), removing awards from people who advocate not hiring Gay players (Dungy), firing homophobic coaches (Vikings) who advocate violence towards LGBT persons, and end to firing players simply because they support LGBT rights (Kluwe), firing scouts that attempt to weed out players based upon a rumor they might be gay (Broncos), etc. Zero out tens of thousands of game day NFL players, coaches, and scouts is hard to justify based upon numbers. There are Gay players. They just face a horrendously hostile work environment.

Kluwe was next to last in the NFL in punts inside the 20 in 2013 (sort of an important measure of prowess) while making $1.45M and generally being a bigger distraction than a contributor. But in your world he was fired for standing up for LGBT. That seems a specious correlation in what even a layman knows is a cutthroat industry.

It's true that in all professional life that ones cost, real or perceived, cannot outweigh ones value. Once that threshold is crossed, there is often little incentive for an employer to maintain such an employee. With that reality, we have Chris Kluwe. And potentially a reason why there are no outwardly gay major league players. There are certainly without a doubt openly gay major league administrators.

But your bully tactics advocated above are the epitome of the current LGBT generation – foul-mouthed personal attacks against anyone who disagrees. You're arguing that gays are entitled to play or work in the NFL, even if they’re not as good as other players or workers, just because of their gayness. Sexual affirmative action trumps performance.

This is why you are not in an NFL front office, Tom.

(And suffice it to say that I am shocked, SHOCKED, to see that major league sports locker rooms and management do not resemble a women’s circle at the local Lutheran church or the cast of the local cabaret. SHOCKED. SHOCKED, I TELL YA!)

(05-24-2016 02:27 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  (And suffice it to say that I am shocked, SHOCKED, to see that major league sports locker rooms and management do not resemble a women’s circle at the local Lutheran church or the cast of the local cabaret. SHOCKED. SHOCKED, I TELL YA!)

If you were to believe the stories my Grandmother used to tell they actually do.

(05-24-2016 02:27 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 02:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  How about tossing out anti gay groups from the lockerrooms, banning owners that support employment discrimination (McNair), removing awards from people who advocate not hiring Gay players (Dungy), firing homophobic coaches (Vikings) who advocate violence towards LGBT persons, and end to firing players simply because they support LGBT rights (Kluwe), firing scouts that attempt to weed out players based upon a rumor they might be gay (Broncos), etc. Zero out tens of thousands of game day NFL players, coaches, and scouts is hard to justify based upon numbers. There are Gay players. They just face a horrendously hostile work environment.

Kluwe was next to last in the NFL in punts inside the 20 in 2013 (sort of an important measure of prowess) while making $1.45M and generally being a bigger distraction than a contributor. But in your world he was fired for standing up for LGBT. That seems a specious correlation in what even a layman knows is a cutthroat industry.

It's true that in all professional life that ones cost, real or perceived, cannot outweigh ones value. Once that threshold is crossed, there is often little incentive for an employer to maintain such an employee. With that reality, we have Chris Kluwe. And potentially a reason why there are no outwardly gay major league players. There are certainly without a doubt openly gay major league administrators.

But your bully tactics advocated above are the epitome of the current LGBT generation – foul-mouthed personal attacks against anyone who disagrees. You're arguing that gays are entitled to play or work in the NFL, even if they’re not as good as other players or workers, just because of their gayness. Sexual affirmative action trumps performance.

This is why you are not in an NFL front office, Tom.

(And suffice it to say that I am shocked, SHOCKED, to see that major league sports locker rooms and management do not resemble a women’s circle at the local Lutheran church or the cast of the local cabaret. SHOCKED. SHOCKED, I TELL YA!)

There's a lot more to the Kluwe situation. I'm on the road today so I'll have to post the link later (in Alabama).

Either way, you're free to continue to think that out of tens of thousands of players, coaches, and player development staff in the NBA, MLB, and the NFL that's it's purely coincidental that no Gay person has come out ever. You're also free to ignore the substantial evidence of unprofessional anti Gay behavior as contributing to that. You also are free to ignore the testimony of just about every single ex player that subsequently came out. You'd be ignoring the evidence, but that's not new. I'd take exception to your characterization of my criticism of the major sports leagues as being foul mouthed.

Either way, there is evidence that the leagues actively seek to protect discrimination, downplay hostile acts towards LGBT persons by coaches, and venerate those that actively campaign for discrimination. Combined with a complete lack of any Gay players in the history of the leagues (save one reserve player in the last year of an NBA career), I stand by my characterization of the leagues as tolerating discrimination.

And back to the OP. Don't wonder where we get the idea that the leagues are out to get us, when they've provided every indication to support that assertion, and little if any, evidence to rebut that.

nm

Coming out as queer is bad business.

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(05-24-2016 12:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  DJ was fired, Padres will invite Chorus back.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/fir...1tgqwqtmjt

I'm glad they were invited back. Can't says I'd blame them if they told the Padres to piss up a rope, though.

(05-24-2016 12:43 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  DJ was fired, Padres will invite Chorus back.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/fir...1tgqwqtmjt

...and UofMemphis rejoices by saying, "It's okay to be Gay!"

The chorus said that they want the DJ to be re-instated, guess that believe that it was just an honest mistake, glad to see it work out that way.