(05-14-2016 11:08 AM)Paul M Wrote:  See, the difference is idiots will be using cisgender and we will laugh because, well, it's silly. Just a word. And words don't hurt. We wont be offended. Again, that's a silly notion.

We aren't faggots or trannies. Our worlds don't come crashing down over an alphabet jumble.

Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Guess it would be pointless to repeat myself. Some are just going to be offended over things that don't rise to the offensive.

Whiny little crybaby *******. Muh feeling.

(05-14-2016 11:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:08 AM)Paul M Wrote:  See, the difference is idiots will be using cisgender and we will laugh because, well, it's silly. Just a word. And words don't hurt. We wont be offended. Again, that's a silly notion.

We aren't faggots or trannies. Our worlds don't come crashing down over an alphabet jumble.

Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

Tom, serious question, I'm genuinely curious. Why has the LBG movement hitched it's wagons with transgender movement?

I am far more sympathetic to gay rights than transgender rights as the latter seems to be a mental illness/delusion (the same way I see someone who wants to be trans-species or trans-race, etc.). I also see the transgender movement more about authoritarian enforcement of acceptance vs. gay rights historical struggle to be free from legal persecution.

I think the LBG movement would do better if they focused on their own issues, i.e. focusing on employment protections for LBG instead of NC's bathroom law.

(05-14-2016 12:01 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Guess it would be pointless to repeat myself. Some are just going to be offended over things that don't rise to the offensive.

Whiny little crybaby *******. Muh feeling.

'don't rise to the offensive'

Says the person making the offensive remarks. Its not how it works.

You said it to be offensive. You could have made your point without using those terms. And here's a test for you Paul. If you used that word in the conference realignment room, say within the context of some sports analogy, what do you think the response would be? If massive levels of indignation would ensue, then why use it here?

(05-14-2016 09:23 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If y'all are upset that people have found a way to not describe Trans People in a way that isn't insulting, y'all are going to really hate life moving forward. Because the term cisgender is a thing and it will be in wide use.

So...Now we have Cissies and Trannies? Not down with that personally.

(05-14-2016 09:23 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If y'all are upset that people have found a way to not describe Trans People in a way that isn't insulting, y'all are going to really hate life moving forward. Because the term cisgender is a thing and it will be in wide use.

The term cisgender is moronic bull****. People aren't 'assigned' a gender at birth. Humans are born male or female unless there is a genetic mutation and grow up as the sex they are born as without problem unless there is a hormonal problrm, or outside influence by moronic parents that are convinced their kids are special little snowflakes.

(05-14-2016 12:13 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Tom, serious question, I'm genuinely curious. Why has the LBG movement hitched it's wagons with transgender movement?

I am far more sympathetic to gay rights than transgender rights as the latter seems to be a mental illness/delusion (the same way I see someone who wants to be trans-species or trans-race, etc.). I also see the transgender movement more about authoritarian enforcement of acceptance vs. gay rights historical struggle to be free from legal persecution.

I think the LBG movement would do better if they focused on their own issues, i.e. focusing on employment protections for LBG instead of NC's bathroom law.

Your question is actually a good one.

I used to think that we would be better off without the T.

1) I believe that the level of opposition to our agenda will be the same with or without T inclusion. We've seen that multiple times.

2) I think that if Trans rights were not being discussed, those people opposed to Trans rights would just be focusing extra hard on opposing Gay rights.

3) Why bother going for half measures if they're going to be just as hard to pass as the whole enchilada?
---
You can't completely divorce acceptance and freedom from persecution.

Authoritarian acceptance? No. Simple non-discrimination? Yes. If the religious right said that all Gay people had to go use the "Question Mark" or "Abnormal" Restroom in schools, I think you'd see that as wrong. Because you'd rightly see it as stigmitizing. Why are Trans people different? I think you are simply not comfortable with the issues surrounding gender identity.

The overwhelming majority of medical professionals as well as every reputable psychological organization on Planet Earth sees gender identity as a condition (like happiness, etc.) but not a DELUSION. Illness is also a loaded term. No one reputable thinks that gender identity should be 'fixed' by trying to convince the person to not feel that way. And using the beastiality or species argument is really bad. I'd be really careful going there.

I think that the correct way to describe gender dysphoria is as a condition.

(05-14-2016 12:24 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 09:23 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If y'all are upset that people have found a way to not describe Trans People in a way that isn't insulting, y'all are going to really hate life moving forward. Because the term cisgender is a thing and it will be in wide use.

The term cisgender is moronic bull****. People aren't 'assigned' a gender at birth. Humans are born male or female unless there is a genetic mutation and grow up as the sex they are born as without problem unless there is a hormonal problrm, or outside influence by moronic parents that are convinced their kids are special little snowflakes.

Why so offended by a word that isn't an insult?

Oh, because WORDS matter. Just like I tried to explain to Paul.

Labeling someone as abnormal is stigmatizing. The lack of a word to describe someone who is not Transgendered created a problem. So one was developed. Cisgendered is not an insult. Neither is Straight.

(05-14-2016 12:13 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Tom, serious question, I'm genuinely curious. Why has the LBG movement hitched it's wagons with transgender movement?

I am far more sympathetic to gay rights than transgender rights as the latter seems to be a mental illness/delusion (the same way I see someone who wants to be trans-species or trans-race, etc.). I also see the transgender movement more about authoritarian enforcement of acceptance vs. gay rights historical struggle to be free from legal persecution.

I think the LBG movement would do better if they focused on their own issues, i.e. focusing on employment protections for LBG instead of NC's bathroom law.

My sentiments exactly.

(05-14-2016 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:08 AM)Paul M Wrote:  See, the difference is idiots will be using cisgender and we will laugh because, well, it's silly. Just a word. And words don't hurt. We wont be offended. Again, that's a silly notion.

We aren't faggots or trannies. Our worlds don't come crashing down over an alphabet jumble.

Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

If I can show that someone is biased against LGBT/Minority persons then I could call them a Transphobe a Bigot etc. And its an individual descriptor. All of these words have meanings that aren't purely defamatory. Loaded perhaps, but not defamatory.

F-bomb? Purely defamatory.

(05-14-2016 12:36 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:24 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 09:23 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  If y'all are upset that people have found a way to not describe Trans People in a way that isn't insulting, y'all are going to really hate life moving forward. Because the term cisgender is a thing and it will be in wide use.

The term cisgender is moronic bull****. People aren't 'assigned' a gender at birth. Humans are born male or female unless there is a genetic mutation and grow up as the sex they are born as without problem unless there is a hormonal problrm, or outside influence by moronic parents that are convinced their kids are special little snowflakes.

Why so offended by a word that isn't an insult?

Oh, because WORDS matter. Just like I tried to explain to Paul.

Labeling someone as abnormal is stigmatizing. The lack of a word to describe someone who is not Transgendered created a problem. So one was developed. Cisgendered is not an insult. Neither is Straight.

No word is needed at all to describe someone who is not trans. And amusing that one would think it was a problem in need of a solution.

(05-14-2016 12:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:08 AM)Paul M Wrote:  See, the difference is idiots will be using cisgender and we will laugh because, well, it's silly. Just a word. And words don't hurt. We wont be offended. Again, that's a silly notion.

We aren't faggots or trannies. Our worlds don't come crashing down over an alphabet jumble.

Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

If I can show that someone is biased against LGBT/Minority persons then I could call them a Transphobe a Bigot etc. And its an individual descriptor. All of these words have meanings that aren't purely defamatory. Loaded perhaps, but not defamatory.

F-bomb? Purely defamatory.

Having a bias, which all people do, does equate to bigotry at all.

As nouns the difference between bigotry and bias is that bigotry is intolerance or prejudice, especially religious or racial; discrimination (against); the characteristic qualities of a bigot while bias is (countable|uncountable) inclination towards something; predisposition, partiality, prejudice, preference, predilection.

(05-14-2016 12:51 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:08 AM)Paul M Wrote:  See, the difference is idiots will be using cisgender and we will laugh because, well, it's silly. Just a word. And words don't hurt. We wont be offended. Again, that's a silly notion.

We aren't faggots or trannies. Our worlds don't come crashing down over an alphabet jumble.

Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

If I can show that someone is biased against LGBT/Minority persons then I could call them a Transphobe a Bigot etc. And its an individual descriptor. All of these words have meanings that aren't purely defamatory. Loaded perhaps, but not defamatory.

F-bomb? Purely defamatory.

Having a bias, which all people do, does equate to bigotry at all.

As nouns the difference between bigotry and bias is that bigotry is intolerance or prejudice, especially religious or racial; discrimination (against); the characteristic qualities of a bigot while bias is (countable|uncountable) inclination towards something; predisposition, partiality, prejudice, preference, predilection.

Fair enough. I assumed bias was always in a negative way, and probably should have been more clear. If I can show someone being prejudiced or intolerant, then the use of terms like bigot, transphobe, homophobe, racist, etc. are warranted.

There's really no way to defend using the F-bomb.

My point is that there IS a difference between calling someone a bigot and using the F-bomb. You can actually defend the use of the word bigot.

(05-14-2016 01:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:51 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

If I can show that someone is biased against LGBT/Minority persons then I could call them a Transphobe a Bigot etc. And its an individual descriptor. All of these words have meanings that aren't purely defamatory. Loaded perhaps, but not defamatory.

F-bomb? Purely defamatory.

Having a bias, which all people do, does equate to bigotry at all.

As nouns the difference between bigotry and bias is that bigotry is intolerance or prejudice, especially religious or racial; discrimination (against); the characteristic qualities of a bigot while bias is (countable|uncountable) inclination towards something; predisposition, partiality, prejudice, preference, predilection.

Fair enough. I assumed bias was always in a negative way, and probably should have been more clear. If I can show someone being prejudiced or intolerant, then the use of terms like bigot, transphobe, homophobe, racist, etc. are warranted.

There's really no way to defend using the F-bomb.

My point is that there IS a difference between calling someone a bigot and using the F-bomb. You can actually defend the use of the word bigot.

Prejudiced is simply pre judging. Someone has tattered clothes so they must be poor. We do this daily.

Transphobe Homophobe are awful labels as very few people are "scared"
of these people. Of any group or sub group gay guys scare me the least.
Not accepting a type of lifestyle, cruisin, hook up with strangers in parks, or public restrooms, does not make one a homophobe.

Racist generally means that one thinks their ethnicity or race is superior to others in various ways. Some people say Asians are smarter than others especially in math and sciences. One could say that is a racist position, but it isn't really demeaning as test scores might back up the claim. (maybe they just study more and parents push them more?)

The left and gays use words wrong. Nothing new. Intentional too.

(05-14-2016 01:15 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 01:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:51 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

If I can show that someone is biased against LGBT/Minority persons then I could call them a Transphobe a Bigot etc. And its an individual descriptor. All of these words have meanings that aren't purely defamatory. Loaded perhaps, but not defamatory.

F-bomb? Purely defamatory.

Having a bias, which all people do, does equate to bigotry at all.

As nouns the difference between bigotry and bias is that bigotry is intolerance or prejudice, especially religious or racial; discrimination (against); the characteristic qualities of a bigot while bias is (countable|uncountable) inclination towards something; predisposition, partiality, prejudice, preference, predilection.

Fair enough. I assumed bias was always in a negative way, and probably should have been more clear. If I can show someone being prejudiced or intolerant, then the use of terms like bigot, transphobe, homophobe, racist, etc. are warranted.

There's really no way to defend using the F-bomb.

My point is that there IS a difference between calling someone a bigot and using the F-bomb. You can actually defend the use of the word bigot.

Prejudiced is simply pre judging. Someone has tattered clothes so they must be poor. We do this daily.

Transphobe Homophobe are awful labels as very few people are "scared"
of these people. Of any group or sub group gay guys scare me the least.
Not accepting a type of lifestyle, cruisin, hook up with strangers in parks, or public restrooms, does not make one a homophobe.

Racist generally means that one thinks their ethnicity or race is superior to others in various ways. Some people say Asians are smarter than others especially in math and sciences. One could say that is a racist position, but it isn't really demeaning as test scores might back up the claim. (maybe they just study more and parents push them more?)

I agree that Transphobe and Homophobe should probably be Transhater and Homohater but the meanings are the same in generally understood English.

Hater would be a misuse of words still.

(05-14-2016 12:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:08 AM)Paul M Wrote:  See, the difference is idiots will be using cisgender and we will laugh because, well, it's silly. Just a word. And words don't hurt. We wont be offended. Again, that's a silly notion.

We aren't faggots or trannies. Our worlds don't come crashing down over an alphabet jumble.

Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

If I can show that someone is biased against LGBT/Minority persons then I could call them a Transphobe a Bigot etc. And its an individual descriptor. All of these words have meanings that aren't purely defamatory. Loaded perhaps, but not defamatory.

F-bomb? Purely defamatory.

Then you're a hypocrite of the highest order.

(05-14-2016 01:39 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:44 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:51 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 11:08 AM)Paul M Wrote:  See, the difference is idiots will be using cisgender and we will laugh because, well, it's silly. Just a word. And words don't hurt. We wont be offended. Again, that's a silly notion.

We aren't faggots or trannies. Our worlds don't come crashing down over an alphabet jumble.

Words hurt minorities. Because language such as yours enables the concept that Gay persons or Transgendered Persons are worthy of ridicule.

You know its offensive. It is considered offensive by the overwhelming majority of the people who would see it. But still you continue to use it. Purely to offend. Why not drop a N bomb while you are at it?

I'd ask you to see that from the prospective of a target of ridicule, but asking you to understand the viewpoints of others is kind of pointless.

To those who think that there's no need for laws like Charlotte's non-discrimination ordinance, and why the Feds have to get involved, its because far too many people behave like Paul does. And some of them actually do have the ability to create real harm to LGBT persons. And some of them do create real harm.

Words hurt? Quit calling everyone Racist, Bigot, Homophobe, Transphobe,
misogynist, and all of the words you leftists call people because they dare disagree with your political positions.

If I can show that someone is biased against LGBT/Minority persons then I could call them a Transphobe a Bigot etc. And its an individual descriptor. All of these words have meanings that aren't purely defamatory. Loaded perhaps, but not defamatory.

F-bomb? Purely defamatory.

Then you're a hypocrite of the highest order.

You fail to understand the difference between a word that has no descriptive ability other than an insult based upon ones race or sexual orientation (N-bomb, F-bomb), and a word that has an individual definition commonly understood. Homophobe in common usage, means a person who either fears Gay persons, hates Gay persons, or advocates demeaning or discriminatory treatment of Gay persons. There's a difference.