Full welfare or no welfare at all. Humanity is incapable of moderation.

(05-04-2016 11:41 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 11:13 AM)Greenroom Wrote:  So the people that are against Food Stamp or welfare, are you also against helping small businesses and companies with assistance from the government? Its cool to yell at some poor dad trying to get by, but then we turn a blind eye to the abuse the government does on the business side as well.

I think this lady was rude and should of kept her mouth shut, unless she knows that this person is abusing the system. Then report it. Which I bet she did not.. just another crazy trying to get famous to cash in.

Businesses and companies provide jobs and simulate the economy in a major way. Welfare Queens and leeches do not.

They're two entirely different arguments. Do I oppose flat out "corporate welfare" where they just get money? Absolutely... (see Bailout, Bush Jr.)

Do I oppose loans to businesses... Nope, providing their paid back and not just written off by the govt. (again, for instance GM/Chrysler did NOT pay back their full loans, no matter what GM Chrysler, and the govt. claim.

Personally, I think the lady is a beyotch for what she did/said.

All those complaining about paying for "other people's bad decisions," I hope there are not any Anti-abortion folks among you.

(05-04-2016 12:33 PM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  All those complaining about paying for "other people's bad decisions," I hope there are not any Anti-abortion folks among you.

This

(05-04-2016 10:40 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:39 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:37 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 09:00 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(05-03-2016 09:55 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  No food stamps at all. No welfare. It is taking from my pocket. I work hard for my money, why should a failure receive my funds? Let the charities and churches handle them.

Self reliance is lost in America.

Uhhh, we all work hard to pay into the system. If you lose your job, it's there for you too.

I will walk the streets first.

What if you got kids to feed?

Foster home until I can recover.

You clearly don't have kids if you would voluntarily put your kids in foster care. There's nothing in this world that would make me do that to my child.

(05-04-2016 12:51 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:40 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:39 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:37 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 09:00 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Uhhh, we all work hard to pay into the system. If you lose your job, it's there for you too.

I will walk the streets first.

What if you got kids to feed?

Foster home until I can recover.

You clearly don't have kids if you would voluntarily put your kids in foster care. There's nothing in this world that would make me do that to my child.

I was thinking the same. The thought of giving up my child is unfathomable.

Its a subsidy for the ag and grocery industry and poor slob gets yelled at for it.

If you are going to feed the needy and give charity...buy food in bulk with competitive bidding...and give them food.

Giving the cash to buy it retail at full markup....is charity for the retailer, the wholesaler, and the producer.

We aren't concerned with cost here or caring for people...we are concerned with taxpayers buying lots of full price food to support an industry.

(05-04-2016 01:16 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  If you are going to feed the needy and give charity...buy food in bulk with competitive bidding...and give them food.

Giving the cash to buy it retail at full markup....is charity for the retailer, the wholesaler, and the producer.

We aren't concerned with cost here or caring for people...we are concerned with taxpayers buying lots of full price food to support an industry.

I've often thought that there should be limits and restrictions on what you can buy with food stamps, i.e. lean meats, fish, chicken, fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grain bread and cereal, etc.

And then I thought, well food stamp recipients would complain about not having free choice

but then I thought, if they want to complain, they need to find a way to support themselves in order to buy junk food.

And then I thought more, and I doubt it's even the food stamp recipients who would complain about this change, it would be "Big Food", i.e. companies that mass produce pre-packaged, high added sugar, delicious-tasting but bad for you food.

There would be quite a big fight from their lobbyists, but someone needs to propose what I've bolded above as a part of any food stamp/welfare reform. It would undoubtedly have a long-term positive effect on health care spending too.

(05-04-2016 08:19 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Food Stamps are intended as a subsidy for the agriculture, food, and grocery industry.

Yelling at the low income guy misses the point entirely.

Go yell at a farmer, or Kroger, or Archer Daniels Midland if you don't like that subsidy.

Get rid of food stamps and that subsidy will go directly to thr [sic] industry rather than through the low-income middle man first.

Interesting, I'd never heard of that or thought of it like that.

(05-04-2016 10:40 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:39 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:37 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I will walk the streets first.

What if you got kids to feed?

Foster home until I can recover.

LOL, you'd never gain custody of them again. Maybe they'd come back to you as an adult but you'd never gain custody.

(05-04-2016 02:00 PM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 01:16 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  If you are going to feed the needy and give charity...buy food in bulk with competitive bidding...and give them food.

Giving the cash to buy it retail at full markup....is charity for the retailer, the wholesaler, and the producer.

We aren't concerned with cost here or caring for people...we are concerned with taxpayers buying lots of full price food to support an industry.

I've often thought that there should be limits and restrictions on what you can buy with food stamps, i.e. lean meats, fish, chicken, fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grain bread and cereal, etc.

And then I thought, well food stamp recipients would complain about not having free choice

but then I thought, if they want to complain, they need to find a way to support themselves in order to buy junk food.

And then I thought more, and I doubt it's even the food stamp recipients who would complain about this change, it would be "Big Food", i.e. companies that mass produce pre-packaged, high added sugar, delicious-tasting but bad for you food.

There would be quite a big fight from their lobbyists, but someone needs to propose what I've bolded above as a part of any food stamp/welfare reform. It would undoubtedly have a long-term positive effect on health care spending too.

Yeah. Coca-Cola and Hershey would love you to use your food stamps on their products. Powerful lobbies.

If condom companies, Bible companies, video game companies could pull it off, they'd be on board the gravy train too.

(05-04-2016 02:07 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 08:19 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  Food Stamps are intended as a subsidy for the agriculture, food, and grocery industry.

Yelling at the low income guy misses the point entirely.

Go yell at a farmer, or Kroger, or Archer Daniels Midland if you don't like that subsidy.

Get rid of food stamps and that subsidy will go directly to thr [sic] industry rather than through the low-income middle man first.

Interesting, I'd never heard of that or thought of it like that.

Its a great scam. We are paying full retail price for our charity.

And when people complain, they don't complain against those profiting.

(05-04-2016 10:38 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  So what would you do? How would you fix it?

The full solution would involve far more than this in order to address the obvious issues, some of which you noted...

but I'd start with a negative payroll tax. If the going wage is 7.25 and the government thinks people working full time should make $15, then rather than take $1.25/hr out of your paycheck for FICA/FUTA/witholding etc, they should pay $7.25 INTO your paycheck. 'welfare' is therefore directly tied to work. You're encouraged to work, even for $7.25 rather than sit at home. If you can't work, okay... different situation. Something like this... if you CAN work, but can't find any, you get $10.00/hr/40 hrs. Barely getting by, no frills. If you can only find $7.25 work, you get $11. If you can find $12, you get $15. If you can't work at all, maybe you get $11 or $12. Something OTHER than the cliff financing we have where you're discouraged from earning more because you lose your benefits.

The money that pays you comes from taxpayers, which by and large are wealthier people... rather than from consumers of min wage labors who generally aren't... which means that taxes on the rich go up while 'costs' may not. Something the min wage ignores. Sure, you have to address other issues, but at least the burden is being placed where leftists always SAY they're putting it, but rarely are they doing so.

Eliminate corporate taxes in favor of a VAT (Owl's plan supported by numerous bipartisan committees) and then flatten the income/gains rates which gives the wealthy less incentive to hide their money or encumber it and thus they pay more WILLINGLY because it 'works' for them to do so.

(05-04-2016 10:43 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Forgot about that. Or my family.

I just have no desire to be a leech.

If you don't ask for a helping hand, you'll eventually end up as a leech in some ways. I learned the hard way. No one gets there alone.

I still understand and respect your stance on the taxpayers and GA though.

(05-04-2016 12:53 PM)ArmyBlazer Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 12:51 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:40 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:39 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  

(05-04-2016 10:37 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I will walk the streets first.

What if you got kids to feed?

Foster home until I can recover.

You clearly don't have kids if you would voluntarily put your kids in foster care. There's nothing in this world that would make me do that to my child.

I was thinking the same. The thought of giving up my child is unfathomable.

I don't have children since I am not married.