Cruz would do better in the general than Trump. Kasich also. Everybody does. Trump is the most likely that we lose with.

(04-06-2016 10:31 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:11 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:24 AM)dbacard Wrote:  Kasich is holding out for the contested convention which is looking like a reality now. Trump wont get the necessary delegates to win it outright.

If Trump doesn't win outright, Cruz gets the nomination. He has already put in place enough delegates in as many states as possible.

The whispers now in the GOP is a campaign slogan that is "Lose with Cruz" .


Which is to say that running Cruz and losing the election would minimize the damage and retain the Congress.

Otherwise, the GOP loses the POTUS and the Congress.

Funny slogan, considering Cruz is beating Hillary in most of the polls head to head. The establishment loses with Cruz. Maybe thats what they mean.

What polls are you looking at?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/...-4034.html

(04-06-2016 10:04 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 09:46 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 09:42 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 07:59 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 06:34 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Kasich needs to drop out now. No way any shape or form could He be the Party nominee. Go back and finish Your real job as Gov. of Ohio.

Kasich isn't quitting because he knows he has the best chance of getting the nomination if there is a contested convention. As long as both Trump and Cruz split delegates, neither may have enough for a first ballot win. And Trump and Cruz MUST win on the first ballot or else they are out.

Huh? Kasich has no delegate game. Cruz is raking in all the unbound delegates and infiltrating Trump bound delegates with his own people. Kasich isn't doing any of that. Where exactly does your theory come from? The only way Kasich wins is in a smoky backroom deal where the rules are changed and the delegates get tossed out. That would cause a revolt.

If neither Trump nor Cruz has a first ballot win (and if Cruz bleeds off some of Trump's delegates that could happen) then neither will get the nomination.

After the first ballot, the delegates can vote for whoever they believe has the best chance to win. And that may be Kasich.

I look forward to your "revolt."

The first choice was and likely still is Bush from the establishment delegates.

There are no establishment delegates. That is a myth; it simply doesn't work that way anymore. The vast majority of delegates are grassroots party activists. Rand Paul has a better chance of coming out of the convention with the nomination than Kasich.

Here is a pretty in depth explanation and analysis of the process if any of you are interested in educating yourselves.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ted-...538twitter

(04-06-2016 10:34 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:31 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:11 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:24 AM)dbacard Wrote:  Kasich is holding out for the contested convention which is looking like a reality now. Trump wont get the necessary delegates to win it outright.

If Trump doesn't win outright, Cruz gets the nomination. He has already put in place enough delegates in as many states as possible.

The whispers now in the GOP is a campaign slogan that is "Lose with Cruz" .


Which is to say that running Cruz and losing the election would minimize the damage and retain the Congress.

Otherwise, the GOP loses the POTUS and the Congress.

Funny slogan, considering Cruz is beating Hillary in most of the polls head to head. The establishment loses with Cruz. Maybe thats what they mean.

What polls are you looking at?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/...-4034.html

Polls that are serious, such as those that use registered or likely voters versus those that ask random people 18 years or older.

You do realize how bad the RCP average of polls were in Wisconsin, dont you? It had Cruz up by 4 points. He won by over 13.

(04-06-2016 10:31 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:11 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:24 AM)dbacard Wrote:  Kasich is holding out for the contested convention which is looking like a reality now. Trump wont get the necessary delegates to win it outright.

If Trump doesn't win outright, Cruz gets the nomination. He has already put in place enough delegates in as many states as possible.

The whispers now in the GOP is a campaign slogan that is "Lose with Cruz" .


Which is to say that running Cruz and losing the election would minimize the damage and retain the Congress.

Otherwise, the GOP loses the POTUS and the Congress.

Funny slogan, considering Cruz is beating Hillary in most of the polls head to head. The establishment loses with Cruz. Maybe thats what they mean.

Are these internal Cruz polls or something?

He gets little to no moderate/independent/democrat support in the general and may not even energize the republican base fully because of how disliked he is by most of the republican leadership.

(04-06-2016 08:21 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 07:29 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Hillary is at a dilemma.

Lurch to the left and loudly sing the praises of statism to match Sanders, and she'll look like an even bigger phony and game-player.

Lurch to the center and slam Sanders' most loony leftist diatribes, and she'll be painted as a Republican in disguise and grow the comrade's base even more.

Sanders is very lucky the Democratic side wasn't the crowded GOP bakers' dozen. O'Malley aside, Sanders was the only alternative to Hillary - easy to get media time. If there were several more candidates on that stage, and if Biden had decided to enter, Sanders would've been little more than a footnote. Maybe close to Ron Paul type numbers, but not the serious POTUS contender he's become.

Interesting take, but I disagree. Whether you agree with his ideas or not, Sanders is real, he has a long record of fighting for causes he believes in and he cares about the working class -- of which I count myself a member. All that resonates. I think he would be 'little more than a footnote' in this race no matter who entered Democratic primary. Sanders is a statesman. Clinton and Biden (and Cruz and Kasich, for that matter) are politicians. They're the establishment. They're phony.

I'd say the only genuine candidates in this race are Sanders and Trump.

His causes would be a disaster for America. I don't care how honest he is. His reign would be a colossal waste for my country. His theories will destroy the working class.

Comrade Bernie Sanders is a dead end.

(04-06-2016 10:48 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:21 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 07:29 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Hillary is at a dilemma.

Lurch to the left and loudly sing the praises of statism to match Sanders, and she'll look like an even bigger phony and game-player.

Lurch to the center and slam Sanders' most loony leftist diatribes, and she'll be painted as a Republican in disguise and grow the comrade's base even more.

Sanders is very lucky the Democratic side wasn't the crowded GOP bakers' dozen. O'Malley aside, Sanders was the only alternative to Hillary - easy to get media time. If there were several more candidates on that stage, and if Biden had decided to enter, Sanders would've been little more than a footnote. Maybe close to Ron Paul type numbers, but not the serious POTUS contender he's become.

Interesting take, but I disagree. Whether you agree with his ideas or not, Sanders is real, he has a long record of fighting for causes he believes in and he cares about the working class -- of which I count myself a member. All that resonates. I think he would be 'little more than a footnote' in this race no matter who entered Democratic primary. Sanders is a statesman. Clinton and Biden (and Cruz and Kasich, for that matter) are politicians. They're the establishment. They're phony.

I'd say the only genuine candidates in this race are Sanders and Trump.

His causes would be a disaster for America. I don't care how honest he is. His reign would be a colossal waste for my country. His theories will destroy the working class.

Comrade Bernie Sanders is a dead end.

In Orwell's Animal Farm, the horse named Boxer symbolized the working class. He ultimately got sent to the Glue Factory.

(04-06-2016 08:21 AM)gsu95 Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 07:29 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Hillary is at a dilemma.

Lurch to the left and loudly sing the praises of statism to match Sanders, and she'll look like an even bigger phony and game-player.

Lurch to the center and slam Sanders' most loony leftist diatribes, and she'll be painted as a Republican in disguise and grow the comrade's base even more.

Sanders is very lucky the Democratic side wasn't the crowded GOP bakers' dozen. O'Malley aside, Sanders was the only alternative to Hillary - easy to get media time. If there were several more candidates on that stage, and if Biden had decided to enter, Sanders would've been little more than a footnote. Maybe close to Ron Paul type numbers, but not the serious POTUS contender he's become.

Interesting take, but I disagree. Whether you agree with his ideas or not, Sanders is real, he has a long record of fighting for causes he believes in and he cares about the working class -- of which I count myself a member. All that resonates. I think he would be 'little more than a footnote' in this race no matter who entered Democratic primary. Sanders is a statesman. Clinton and Biden (and Cruz and Kasich, for that matter) are politicians. They're the establishment. They're phony.

I'd say the only genuine candidates in this race are Sanders and Trump.

If there were 10+ Democratic candidates on the stage (a la the GOP stage), it wouldn't matter how genuine and 'real' Sanders is, he would've gotten lost in the shuffle and only had a few token questions thrown his way. Especially if Biden had entered.

Sanders would've had his hard-core followers and gotten some attention, kind of like when Ron Paul started out, but his coverage would've been far less and his delegate count would've showed it.

(04-06-2016 10:11 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:24 AM)dbacard Wrote:  Kasich is holding out for the contested convention which is looking like a reality now. Trump wont get the necessary delegates to win it outright.

If Trump doesn't win outright, Cruz gets the nomination. He has already put in place enough delegates in as many states as possible.

The whispers now in the GOP is a campaign slogan that is "Lose with Cruz" .


Which is to say that running Cruz and losing the election would minimize the damage and retain the Congress.

Otherwise, the GOP loses the POTUS and the Congress.

And just whom on the Democrat ticket is viable enough to do that ? Hillary ? Bernie ? Both Likely way more baggage than Americans can stomach.

(04-06-2016 10:43 AM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:31 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:11 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:24 AM)dbacard Wrote:  Kasich is holding out for the contested convention which is looking like a reality now. Trump wont get the necessary delegates to win it outright.

If Trump doesn't win outright, Cruz gets the nomination. He has already put in place enough delegates in as many states as possible.

The whispers now in the GOP is a campaign slogan that is "Lose with Cruz" .


Which is to say that running Cruz and losing the election would minimize the damage and retain the Congress.

Otherwise, the GOP loses the POTUS and the Congress.

Funny slogan, considering Cruz is beating Hillary in most of the polls head to head. The establishment loses with Cruz. Maybe thats what they mean.

Are these internal Cruz polls or something?

He gets little to no moderate/independent/democrat support in the general and may not even energize the republican base fully because of how disliked he is by most of the republican leadership.

The republican primaries are hitting huge record breaking numbers in state after state. The two candidates that are generating all of that excitement, and racking up 75% of the vote, are not establishment. Remind me again how they are out of touch with the voters.

In the meantime, Hillary just got junk punched again by Sanders.

(04-06-2016 10:33 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Cruz would do better in the general than Trump. Kasich also. Everybody does. Trump is the most likely that we lose with.

Ehhh, From what I see on the ground from everyday folks that aren't being surveyed by the media and party faithful, that there is a strong discord with the Democrat left wing agenda. From what I see is a very strong, but also not outspoken truth that Trump is the one Guy that could get things done. As many already know He isn't owned by special interest groups and He isn't afraid to take on both Republicans and Democrats by any means possible. We really can't afford another Yes person for the special interest groups out there. PC crap needs to be reduced to low volume. I believe this Novembers elections will become an embarrassment for the radical Left agendas that have angered a lot of mainstream Americans that will come out and vote.

(04-06-2016 07:59 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 06:34 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Kasich needs to drop out now. No way any shape or form could He be the Party nominee. Go back and finish Your real job as Gov. of Ohio.

Kasich isn't quitting because he knows he has the best chance of getting the nomination if there is a contested convention. As long as both Trump and Cruz split delegates, neither may have enough for a first ballot win. And Trump and Cruz MUST win on the first ballot or else they are out.

Kasich has almost no chance of winning a contested convention. The delegates will be almost all to the right of him and none of the other candidates who have dropped out have endorsed him. 6 have at least effectively endorsed Cruz, 2 Trump, 3 endorsed Rubio and haven't changed while 3 haven't endorsed. He doesn't have support anywhere but Ohio, among politicians or voters.

Rubio, Walker and Bush have a better chance in a contested convention than Kasich and the chances of any of those winning are miniscule.

(04-06-2016 10:06 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Kasich is currently running 4th in a 3 man race.

Rubio did beat him in Arizona. Bush came close in Florida.

(04-06-2016 10:43 AM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:31 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:11 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:24 AM)dbacard Wrote:  Kasich is holding out for the contested convention which is looking like a reality now. Trump wont get the necessary delegates to win it outright.

If Trump doesn't win outright, Cruz gets the nomination. He has already put in place enough delegates in as many states as possible.

The whispers now in the GOP is a campaign slogan that is "Lose with Cruz" .


Which is to say that running Cruz and losing the election would minimize the damage and retain the Congress.

Otherwise, the GOP loses the POTUS and the Congress.

Funny slogan, considering Cruz is beating Hillary in most of the polls head to head. The establishment loses with Cruz. Maybe thats what they mean.

Are these internal Cruz polls or something?

He gets little to no moderate/independent/democrat support in the general and may not even energize the republican base fully because of how disliked he is by most of the republican leadership.

Cruz/Clinton has been close in the polls for months.

(04-06-2016 12:09 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:43 AM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:31 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:11 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 08:24 AM)dbacard Wrote:  Kasich is holding out for the contested convention which is looking like a reality now. Trump wont get the necessary delegates to win it outright.

If Trump doesn't win outright, Cruz gets the nomination. He has already put in place enough delegates in as many states as possible.

The whispers now in the GOP is a campaign slogan that is "Lose with Cruz" .


Which is to say that running Cruz and losing the election would minimize the damage and retain the Congress.

Otherwise, the GOP loses the POTUS and the Congress.

Funny slogan, considering Cruz is beating Hillary in most of the polls head to head. The establishment loses with Cruz. Maybe thats what they mean.

Are these internal Cruz polls or something?

He gets little to no moderate/independent/democrat support in the general and may not even energize the republican base fully because of how disliked he is by most of the republican leadership.

Cruz/Clinton has been close in the polls for months.

Yes but I think that will change when it's just them two in the polls. Where as a lot of Bernie supporters will still vote for Hillary in a general election, I seriously doubt that many Trump supporters will vote for Cruz in a general election.

Look for those numbers to change in favor of Hillary if Cruz wins the nomination .

(04-06-2016 12:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-06-2016 10:06 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Kasich is currently running 4th in a 3 man race.

Rubio did beat him in Arizona. Bush came close in Florida.

I mean in delegate count. Kasich is still running 4th behind a guy that dropped out over a month ago.

Do Bernie supporters realize that he is not ACTUALLY Larry David?

In Kasich's defense, the one state he did win was a pretty big battleground state, I know it's his own, but no Republican has ever won the WH without OH. I'm not confident Cruz could win there in a general, maybe Trump. I don't think he's hurting the country by staying in; a contested convention could be a good thing, have a big airing of grievances, come out of it more galvanized and energized. I think in the past there have been years with brokered conventions that still ended with that party winning in November.

I just skimmed the results but it appears that Hillary! got 43% statewide and -- except for Milwaukee itself (admittedly, a big exception) she lost every single county in the entire state.

For a national front-runner with the near-unanimous support of the Dem. donor/media/office-holder class, that really is an amazingly bad result.