Hello There, Guest! Registered users see far less ads! Register today and join our virtual tailgate. (Login — Register)

Post Reply 
North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
Author Message
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,088
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #481
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
Only ones misgendering them are themselves and you people who humor them in their illness.
04-13-2016 03:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
vandiver49 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,594
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 315
I Root For: USNA/UTK
Location: West GA
Post: #482
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 03:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just because some African Americans could 'pass' as white, didn't mean that they weren't discriminated against.

You're correct that Trans person just want to live their lives as the gender they present (as a permanent thing) without being singled out as 'freaks' or 'tr_nnies' or even worse... being misgendered.

LOL. You totally nailed it when you said some MEN have decided to take up the case....

What feminist opposes Transgendered restroom access?

Passing outside of places like Louisiana was rare. But that issue doesn't have any parallels to what we are discussing.

I just don't think that men in general are worried that much about a trans male walking into their bathroom. Head politics just don't work that way for guys. Women on the other hand treat the bathroom experience far differently and in a classic white knight move, some guys have taken up the cause.
04-13-2016 04:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DaSaintFan Offline
Dum' Sutherner in Midwest!
*

Posts: 17,170
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 595
I Root For: Southern Miss
Location: Stuck in St. Louis
Post: #483
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-09-2016 05:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I'll start with Section 3, Part 4. Very broadly written my friend. Allows for the denial of health care.

Uhm.. .
Quote:The state government shall not take any discriminatory 61 action against a person wholly or partially on the basis that the 62 person declines to participate in the provision of treatments, 63 counseling, or surgeries related to sex reassignment or gender 64 identity transitioning or declines to participate in the provision 65 of psychological, counseling, or fertility services based upon a 66 sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction described in 67 Section 2 of this act.

This subsection (4) shall not be construed 68
to allow any person to deny
visitation, recognition of a 69
designated representative for health care decision-making, or 70
emergency medical treatment necessary to cure an illness or injury 71 as required by law. 72

Where do you see a denial in the very section you pointed us to? I've read it and reread it.. and I cant find it. I see that doctors CANNOT be sued by Mississippi if they refuse a sex-change operation/therapy (it's written right in there... For being "Broadly Written" that's pretty damn pointed as to what the law specifically states in that section)

And the next paragraph even shoots down your general "denial of health care"' argument altogether.

Quote:Then take a look at Section 7. This appears to give a license to harass and insult LGBT Mississippians who are conducting business with their government, including in state owned and operated hospitals.

A person must bring an action to assert a claim 203
under this act not later than two (2) years after the date that 204
the person knew or should have known that a discriminatory action 205
was taken against that person.

Nope.. says if you are discriminated against, "SPEAK UP"...

Quote:And then look at Section 2. It isn't a protection of religion bill, but rather a bill that elevates 3 (and only 3) religious viewpoints. These are evangelical Christian viewpoints not shared by other religions. This establishes evangelical Christianity above other religious viewpoints.

Uhm.. no, it says that Christians are protected under the law, not that other religious/non-religious beliefs are not allowed. Two completely different arguments.

Quote:And then look at Section 3, section ©. What legitimate state interest exists to allow for organizations to refuse to SELL property to someone?


---

Quote:Section 3, part 5. Is so broadly written that it allows for discrimination against any married LGBT person or any Transgendered person is just about every area of commerce. Refuse to rent an apartment or even a hotel room to a Gay couple (that could be recognizing them)? Yep. Refuse to serve a dinner to a married Gay couple (that could be recognizing them)? Yep. Refuse just about any service to a Transgendered person? Yep.


Quote:The state government shall not take any discriminatory 73
action against a person wholly or partially on the basis that the 74 person has provided or declined to provide the following services, 75 accommodations, facilities, goods, or privileges for a purpose 76 related to the solemnization, formation, celebration, or 77
recognition of any marriage, based upon or in a manner consistent 78 with a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction

This is probably your only best argument, Tom, and you took the wrong direction with it IMO, mixing I think you're mixing the terms "protection" (if you choose not to) from "the ability to" (if you choose to do so)
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2016 05:13 PM by DaSaintFan.)
04-13-2016 05:10 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SuperFlyBCat Offline
Banned

Posts: 49,366
Joined: Mar 2005
I Root For: America and UC
Location: Cincinnati
Post: #484
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 04:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 03:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just because some African Americans could 'pass' as white, didn't mean that they weren't discriminated against.

You're correct that Trans person just want to live their lives as the gender they present (as a permanent thing) without being singled out as 'freaks' or 'tr_nnies' or even worse... being misgendered.

LOL. You totally nailed it when you said some MEN have decided to take up the case....

What feminist opposes Transgendered restroom access?

Passing outside of places like Louisiana was rare. But that issue doesn't have any parallels to what we are discussing.

I just don't think that men in general are worried that much about a trans male walking into their bathroom. Head politics just don't work that way for guys. Women on the other hand treat the bathroom experience far differently and in a classic white knight move, some guys have taken up the cause.

04-bow
04-13-2016 05:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tom in Lazybrook Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,253
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 446
I Root For: So Alabama, GWU
Location: Houston
Post: #485
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
Here's the daily recap of today's news

NORTH CAROLINA

1) Cancellations just keep on coming for NC. Even after McCrory's non-fix 'fix'. http://www.wral.com/all-you-need-is-love.../15640184/ While Ringo Starr isn't particularly a big draw, he's a HUGE name. I think this should be enough to let NC know that McCrory's affirmation of employment discrimination in private employment isn't going to stop the damage from the NC GOP anti-Gay agenda.

2) Polling just came out showing McCrory now behind Cooper in the polls (-4). And SB 2 is hugely unpopular too now (-12). Polling done by SurveyUSA. The bathroom discrimination provisions remain popular (56% in favor of the discriminatory treatment which is a LOT lower than I thought they'd be - shows that a large number of North Carolinians, although not yet a majority, 'get it') but the same poll shows the employment protection provisions in private employment covering LGBT persons to be hugely popular. I think movement, even on the bathroom issue is in our direction. And will probably continue to do so in NC in the coming weeks.

MISSISSIPPI

1) The biggest public event of the year for the Mississippi Development Authority folks was just cancelled by the local hosts (The Mississippi Picnic in the Park). And they didn't even bother to let the MDA know about it until they found out about it from the press.

2) Sharon Stone just pulled a film's production out of Mississippi

3) Phil Bryant is facing questions about how he does or doesn't protect his own family.

4) A coalition of Democrats in the MS legislature announced plans to offer up an opportunity for the Mississippi legislature to make changes to HB 1523 before it goes into effect on July 1. That was immediately rejected out of hand by the MS GOP.

TENNESSEE

A particularly nasty and dangerous bill allowing for counseling refusals is on Gov. Haslam's desk. People aren't waiting for Haslam to sign it before starting the condemnations. I don't know what Haslam does.

Haslam will likely have to decide whether to veto or not a SB 2 clone bill, expected to pass through Tennessee's gerrymandered legislature.

Does he placate his far, far, far right base, or does he save his state from the 'crazy train' and himself and his legacy from national revulsion.

MISSOURI

Appears to have killed a NC style SB 2 bill there. Not completely dead, but pretty close.

LOUISIANA

Became (again) the 21st state with state protections for LGBT employees. Gov John Bel Edwards, as was widely expected, reinstated employment protections for LGBT employees that was cancelled by former Governor Jindal. And also cancelled another EO by Jindal that specifically allowed for discrimination by state contractors and private commercial entities.

GEORGIA

Governor Deal ® announced in an interview that 'if the legislature sends me something like that next year, I'll veto it again'. Deal was responding to calls by GOP state legislators to pass additional anti-LGBT legislation.

OTHER

Various anti-Trans/Gay bills are floating around in Michigan and a few other states. I think the furor over NC and Miss is stopping an avalanche of anti-Gay bills in their tracks. While the outrage at North Carolina and Mississippi is real and justified, it is also in the interest of the anti-discrimination folks to ensure that nothing legally is held back while expressing our outrage as the longer this chaos and outrage occurs, the less likely it is that similar bills being proposed in over a dozen states end up being enacted.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2016 05:44 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-13-2016 05:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tom in Lazybrook Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,253
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 446
I Root For: So Alabama, GWU
Location: Houston
Post: #486
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 05:10 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 05:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I'll start with Section 3, Part 4. Very broadly written my friend. Allows for the denial of health care.

Uhm.. .
Quote:The state government shall not take any discriminatory 61 action against a person wholly or partially on the basis that the 62 person declines to participate in the provision of treatments, 63 counseling, or surgeries related to sex reassignment or gender 64 identity transitioning or declines to participate in the provision 65 of psychological, counseling, or fertility services based upon a 66 sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction described in 67 Section 2 of this act.

This subsection (4) shall not be construed 68
to allow any person to deny
visitation, recognition of a 69
designated representative for health care decision-making, or 70
emergency medical treatment necessary to cure an illness or injury 71 as required by law. 72

Where do you see a denial in the very section you pointed us to? I've read it and reread it.. and I cant find it. I see that doctors CANNOT be sued by Mississippi if they refuse a sex-change operation/therapy (it's written right in there... For being "Broadly Written" that's pretty damn pointed as to what the law specifically states in that section)

And the next paragraph even shoots down your general "denial of health care"' argument altogether.

Quote:Then take a look at Section 7. This appears to give a license to harass and insult LGBT Mississippians who are conducting business with their government, including in state owned and operated hospitals.

A person must bring an action to assert a claim 203
under this act not later than two (2) years after the date that 204
the person knew or should have known that a discriminatory action 205
was taken against that person.

Nope.. says if you are discriminated against, "SPEAK UP"...

Quote:And then look at Section 2. It isn't a protection of religion bill, but rather a bill that elevates 3 (and only 3) religious viewpoints. These are evangelical Christian viewpoints not shared by other religions. This establishes evangelical Christianity above other religious viewpoints.

Uhm.. no, it says that Christians are protected under the law, not that other religious/non-religious beliefs are not allowed. Two completely different arguments.

Quote:And then look at Section 3, section ©. What legitimate state interest exists to allow for organizations to refuse to SELL property to someone?


---

Quote:Section 3, part 5. Is so broadly written that it allows for discrimination against any married LGBT person or any Transgendered person is just about every area of commerce. Refuse to rent an apartment or even a hotel room to a Gay couple (that could be recognizing them)? Yep. Refuse to serve a dinner to a married Gay couple (that could be recognizing them)? Yep. Refuse just about any service to a Transgendered person? Yep.


Quote:The state government shall not take any discriminatory 73
action against a person wholly or partially on the basis that the 74 person has provided or declined to provide the following services, 75 accommodations, facilities, goods, or privileges for a purpose 76 related to the solemnization, formation, celebration, or 77
recognition of any marriage, based upon or in a manner consistent 78 with a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction

This is probably your only best argument, Tom, and you took the wrong direction with it IMO, mixing I think you're mixing the terms "protection" (if you choose not to) from "the ability to" (if you choose to do so)

Read lines 65-67 again. Section 2 refers to a lot more than gender reassignment surgery. Psychiatry is a medical field. There are complications (regarding prescriptions etc.) where medical treatment might be 'necessary' or 'essential' but not 'immediately life threatening'. Also for transgendered persons there could be dangerous, debilitating, but not immediately life threatening complications resulting from gender reassignment surgery.

And even worse, there's no mandate that the denied medical care be provided in the same area at the same level and under the same insurance coverage/price. It appears to be up to the denied patient to figure where or even IF they can get the needed medical care.

Basically, if Gay man misplaces his prescription for a psychiatric drug or needs to get a prescription for one, a Mississippi doctor could legally say "sorry, you're gay married or you have sex outside of male/female marriage. Get out of my office." No referral required. Just a denial. And a delay of coverage is the same as a denial.

--

WTF is an 'emergency' under this bill? Chemotherapy isn't an emergency but you'll die if its denied long enough (or if the only providers in your insurance plan won't treat you) for example. A hospital or a doctor could refuse to treat a complication or infection related to gender reassignment surgery and face no punishment even if the person dies a day or two later "We'll she was fine when she left my office, just a bad infection. Not my fault she couldn't find anyone willing to treat her before it got worse".

--

Its Mississippi. Minorities have to always look at the 'worst case scenario'. Because that, sadly, is frequently the outcome. It doesn't have to be that way, but events just keep proving us right.

--

Sadly, as I've said before in this room, Mississippi will only behave when it is forced to do so by outsiders. There are good Mississippians but they usually live outside Mississippi or are way too quiet. That being said, I'm actually surprised by the opposition that has been voiced against HB 1523. Although I doubt that any state legislator will lose his or her seat over their votes in favor of the bill.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2016 08:36 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-13-2016 06:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Smaug Offline
Happnin' Dude
*

Posts: 61,192
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation: 842
I Root For: Dragons
Location: The Lonely Mountain

BlazerTalk AwardBlazerTalk AwardBlazerTalk AwardBlazerTalk Award
Post: #487
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 07:22 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(04-12-2016 07:34 PM)Smaug Wrote:  FWIW, I have an old friend who's transgender. Started life as a girl and is now a dude. Believe me when I tell you you do NOT want him using the ladies' room.

Care to explain?

Because he's a big, burly dude now.
04-13-2016 06:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,088
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #488
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
So to recap:

lbgt can bold face lie left and right and upside down and an awful lot of people will trip over themselves to appease the freak alphabet stew instead of calling them on their lies.

And apparently the average intelligence of American business folk and entertainers is dropping at a fast rate.
04-13-2016 07:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SuperFlyBCat Offline
Banned

Posts: 49,366
Joined: Mar 2005
I Root For: America and UC
Location: Cincinnati
Post: #489
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 05:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the daily recap of today's news

NORTH CAROLINA

1) Cancellations just keep on coming for NC. Even after McCrory's non-fix 'fix'. http://www.wral.com/all-you-need-is-love.../15640184/ While Ringo Starr isn't particularly a big draw, he's a HUGE name. I think this should be enough to let NC know that McCrory's affirmation of employment discrimination in private employment isn't going to stop the damage from the NC GOP anti-Gay agenda.

2) Polling just came out showing McCrory now behind Cooper in the polls (-4). And SB 2 is hugely unpopular too now (-12). Polling done by SurveyUSA. The bathroom discrimination provisions remain popular (56% in favor of the discriminatory treatment which is a LOT lower than I thought they'd be - shows that a large number of North Carolinians, although not yet a majority, 'get it') but the same poll shows the employment protection provisions in private employment covering LGBT persons to be hugely popular. I think movement, even on the bathroom issue is in our direction. And will probably continue to do so in NC in the coming weeks.

MISSISSIPPI

1) The biggest public event of the year for the Mississippi Development Authority folks was just cancelled by the local hosts (The Mississippi Picnic in the Park). And they didn't even bother to let the MDA know about it until they found out about it from the press.

2) Sharon Stone just pulled a film's production out of Mississippi

3) Phil Bryant is facing questions about how he does or doesn't protect his own family.

4) A coalition of Democrats in the MS legislature announced plans to offer up an opportunity for the Mississippi legislature to make changes to HB 1523 before it goes into effect on July 1. That was immediately rejected out of hand by the MS GOP.

TENNESSEE

A particularly nasty and dangerous bill allowing for counseling refusals is on Gov. Haslam's desk. People aren't waiting for Haslam to sign it before starting the condemnations. I don't know what Haslam does.

Haslam will likely have to decide whether to veto or not a SB 2 clone bill, expected to pass through Tennessee's gerrymandered legislature.

Does he placate his far, far, far right base, or does he save his state from the 'crazy train' and himself and his legacy from national revulsion.

MISSOURI

Appears to have killed a NC style SB 2 bill there. Not completely dead, but pretty close.

LOUISIANA

Became (again) the 21st state with state protections for LGBT employees. Gov John Bel Edwards, as was widely expected, reinstated employment protections for LGBT employees that was cancelled by former Governor Jindal. And also cancelled another EO by Jindal that specifically allowed for discrimination by state contractors and private commercial entities.

GEORGIA

Governor Deal ® announced in an interview that 'if the legislature sends me something like that next year, I'll veto it again'. Deal was responding to calls by GOP state legislators to pass additional anti-LGBT legislation.

OTHER

Various anti-Trans/Gay bills are floating around in Michigan and a few other states. I think the furor over NC and Miss is stopping an avalanche of anti-Gay bills in their tracks. While the outrage at North Carolina and Mississippi is real and justified, it is also in the interest of the anti-discrimination folks to ensure that nothing legally is held back while expressing our outrage as the longer this chaos and outrage occurs, the less likely it is that similar bills being proposed in over a dozen states end up being enacted.

Have a dick use the mens room and locker room.
04-13-2016 08:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tom in Lazybrook Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,253
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 446
I Root For: So Alabama, GWU
Location: Houston
Post: #490
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 08:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 05:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the daily recap of today's news

NORTH CAROLINA

1) Cancellations just keep on coming for NC. Even after McCrory's non-fix 'fix'. http://www.wral.com/all-you-need-is-love.../15640184/ While Ringo Starr isn't particularly a big draw, he's a HUGE name. I think this should be enough to let NC know that McCrory's affirmation of employment discrimination in private employment isn't going to stop the damage from the NC GOP anti-Gay agenda.

2) Polling just came out showing McCrory now behind Cooper in the polls (-4). And SB 2 is hugely unpopular too now (-12). Polling done by SurveyUSA. The bathroom discrimination provisions remain popular (56% in favor of the discriminatory treatment which is a LOT lower than I thought they'd be - shows that a large number of North Carolinians, although not yet a majority, 'get it') but the same poll shows the employment protection provisions in private employment covering LGBT persons to be hugely popular. I think movement, even on the bathroom issue is in our direction. And will probably continue to do so in NC in the coming weeks.

MISSISSIPPI

1) The biggest public event of the year for the Mississippi Development Authority folks was just cancelled by the local hosts (The Mississippi Picnic in the Park). And they didn't even bother to let the MDA know about it until they found out about it from the press.

2) Sharon Stone just pulled a film's production out of Mississippi

3) Phil Bryant is facing questions about how he does or doesn't protect his own family.

4) A coalition of Democrats in the MS legislature announced plans to offer up an opportunity for the Mississippi legislature to make changes to HB 1523 before it goes into effect on July 1. That was immediately rejected out of hand by the MS GOP.

TENNESSEE

A particularly nasty and dangerous bill allowing for counseling refusals is on Gov. Haslam's desk. People aren't waiting for Haslam to sign it before starting the condemnations. I don't know what Haslam does.

Haslam will likely have to decide whether to veto or not a SB 2 clone bill, expected to pass through Tennessee's gerrymandered legislature.

Does he placate his far, far, far right base, or does he save his state from the 'crazy train' and himself and his legacy from national revulsion.

MISSOURI

Appears to have killed a NC style SB 2 bill there. Not completely dead, but pretty close.

LOUISIANA

Became (again) the 21st state with state protections for LGBT employees. Gov John Bel Edwards, as was widely expected, reinstated employment protections for LGBT employees that was cancelled by former Governor Jindal. And also cancelled another EO by Jindal that specifically allowed for discrimination by state contractors and private commercial entities.

GEORGIA

Governor Deal ® announced in an interview that 'if the legislature sends me something like that next year, I'll veto it again'. Deal was responding to calls by GOP state legislators to pass additional anti-LGBT legislation.

OTHER

Various anti-Trans/Gay bills are floating around in Michigan and a few other states. I think the furor over NC and Miss is stopping an avalanche of anti-Gay bills in their tracks. While the outrage at North Carolina and Mississippi is real and justified, it is also in the interest of the anti-discrimination folks to ensure that nothing legally is held back while expressing our outrage as the longer this chaos and outrage occurs, the less likely it is that similar bills being proposed in over a dozen states end up being enacted.

Have a dick use the mens room and locker room.

Under SB 2, where does a man with a pen(s (who was born in Tennessee and is a Transgendered male) use the restroom in Charlotte's airport?

The ladies room.
04-13-2016 08:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SuperFlyBCat Offline
Banned

Posts: 49,366
Joined: Mar 2005
I Root For: America and UC
Location: Cincinnati
Post: #491
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 08:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 05:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the daily recap of today's news

NORTH CAROLINA

1) Cancellations just keep on coming for NC. Even after McCrory's non-fix 'fix'. http://www.wral.com/all-you-need-is-love.../15640184/ While Ringo Starr isn't particularly a big draw, he's a HUGE name. I think this should be enough to let NC know that McCrory's affirmation of employment discrimination in private employment isn't going to stop the damage from the NC GOP anti-Gay agenda.

2) Polling just came out showing McCrory now behind Cooper in the polls (-4). And SB 2 is hugely unpopular too now (-12). Polling done by SurveyUSA. The bathroom discrimination provisions remain popular (56% in favor of the discriminatory treatment which is a LOT lower than I thought they'd be - shows that a large number of North Carolinians, although not yet a majority, 'get it') but the same poll shows the employment protection provisions in private employment covering LGBT persons to be hugely popular. I think movement, even on the bathroom issue is in our direction. And will probably continue to do so in NC in the coming weeks.

MISSISSIPPI

1) The biggest public event of the year for the Mississippi Development Authority folks was just cancelled by the local hosts (The Mississippi Picnic in the Park). And they didn't even bother to let the MDA know about it until they found out about it from the press.

2) Sharon Stone just pulled a film's production out of Mississippi

3) Phil Bryant is facing questions about how he does or doesn't protect his own family.

4) A coalition of Democrats in the MS legislature announced plans to offer up an opportunity for the Mississippi legislature to make changes to HB 1523 before it goes into effect on July 1. That was immediately rejected out of hand by the MS GOP.

TENNESSEE

A particularly nasty and dangerous bill allowing for counseling refusals is on Gov. Haslam's desk. People aren't waiting for Haslam to sign it before starting the condemnations. I don't know what Haslam does.

Haslam will likely have to decide whether to veto or not a SB 2 clone bill, expected to pass through Tennessee's gerrymandered legislature.

Does he placate his far, far, far right base, or does he save his state from the 'crazy train' and himself and his legacy from national revulsion.

MISSOURI

Appears to have killed a NC style SB 2 bill there. Not completely dead, but pretty close.

LOUISIANA

Became (again) the 21st state with state protections for LGBT employees. Gov John Bel Edwards, as was widely expected, reinstated employment protections for LGBT employees that was cancelled by former Governor Jindal. And also cancelled another EO by Jindal that specifically allowed for discrimination by state contractors and private commercial entities.

GEORGIA

Governor Deal ® announced in an interview that 'if the legislature sends me something like that next year, I'll veto it again'. Deal was responding to calls by GOP state legislators to pass additional anti-LGBT legislation.

OTHER

Various anti-Trans/Gay bills are floating around in Michigan and a few other states. I think the furor over NC and Miss is stopping an avalanche of anti-Gay bills in their tracks. While the outrage at North Carolina and Mississippi is real and justified, it is also in the interest of the anti-discrimination folks to ensure that nothing legally is held back while expressing our outrage as the longer this chaos and outrage occurs, the less likely it is that similar bills being proposed in over a dozen states end up being enacted.

Have a dick use the mens room and locker room.

Under SB 2, where does a man with a pen(s (who was born in Tennessee and is a Transgendered male) use the restroom in Charlotte's airport?

The ladies room.

Airports have private stalls. Keep your junk private.
04-13-2016 08:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tom in Lazybrook Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,253
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 446
I Root For: So Alabama, GWU
Location: Houston
Post: #492
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 08:46 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 05:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the daily recap of today's news

NORTH CAROLINA

1) Cancellations just keep on coming for NC. Even after McCrory's non-fix 'fix'. http://www.wral.com/all-you-need-is-love.../15640184/ While Ringo Starr isn't particularly a big draw, he's a HUGE name. I think this should be enough to let NC know that McCrory's affirmation of employment discrimination in private employment isn't going to stop the damage from the NC GOP anti-Gay agenda.

2) Polling just came out showing McCrory now behind Cooper in the polls (-4). And SB 2 is hugely unpopular too now (-12). Polling done by SurveyUSA. The bathroom discrimination provisions remain popular (56% in favor of the discriminatory treatment which is a LOT lower than I thought they'd be - shows that a large number of North Carolinians, although not yet a majority, 'get it') but the same poll shows the employment protection provisions in private employment covering LGBT persons to be hugely popular. I think movement, even on the bathroom issue is in our direction. And will probably continue to do so in NC in the coming weeks.

MISSISSIPPI

1) The biggest public event of the year for the Mississippi Development Authority folks was just cancelled by the local hosts (The Mississippi Picnic in the Park). And they didn't even bother to let the MDA know about it until they found out about it from the press.

2) Sharon Stone just pulled a film's production out of Mississippi

3) Phil Bryant is facing questions about how he does or doesn't protect his own family.

4) A coalition of Democrats in the MS legislature announced plans to offer up an opportunity for the Mississippi legislature to make changes to HB 1523 before it goes into effect on July 1. That was immediately rejected out of hand by the MS GOP.

TENNESSEE

A particularly nasty and dangerous bill allowing for counseling refusals is on Gov. Haslam's desk. People aren't waiting for Haslam to sign it before starting the condemnations. I don't know what Haslam does.

Haslam will likely have to decide whether to veto or not a SB 2 clone bill, expected to pass through Tennessee's gerrymandered legislature.

Does he placate his far, far, far right base, or does he save his state from the 'crazy train' and himself and his legacy from national revulsion.

MISSOURI

Appears to have killed a NC style SB 2 bill there. Not completely dead, but pretty close.

LOUISIANA

Became (again) the 21st state with state protections for LGBT employees. Gov John Bel Edwards, as was widely expected, reinstated employment protections for LGBT employees that was cancelled by former Governor Jindal. And also cancelled another EO by Jindal that specifically allowed for discrimination by state contractors and private commercial entities.

GEORGIA

Governor Deal ® announced in an interview that 'if the legislature sends me something like that next year, I'll veto it again'. Deal was responding to calls by GOP state legislators to pass additional anti-LGBT legislation.

OTHER

Various anti-Trans/Gay bills are floating around in Michigan and a few other states. I think the furor over NC and Miss is stopping an avalanche of anti-Gay bills in their tracks. While the outrage at North Carolina and Mississippi is real and justified, it is also in the interest of the anti-discrimination folks to ensure that nothing legally is held back while expressing our outrage as the longer this chaos and outrage occurs, the less likely it is that similar bills being proposed in over a dozen states end up being enacted.

Have a dick use the mens room and locker room.

Under SB 2, where does a man with a pen(s (who was born in Tennessee and is a Transgendered male) use the restroom in Charlotte's airport?

The ladies room.

Airports have private stalls. Keep your junk private.

Actually, North Carolina's legislature just passed a law (SB 2) that mandates as a matter of law that it is ILLEGAL for a government building (which includes the American hub airports in Charlotte or Raleigh, schools, or a Convention Center) to allow allow any Transgendered male with a p9nis (born in Tennessee) to use any multi-occupancy restroom other than the LADIES room. I'm not aware of any single occupancy restroom at Charlotte airport. Are you?

Dude, SB 2 doesn't keep men out of ladies rooms. Actually it mandates that men use the ladies room.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2016 10:02 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-13-2016 10:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dawgitall Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,259
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation: 200
I Root For: ECU/ASU/NCSU
Location:
Post: #493
North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 10:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:46 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 05:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the daily recap of today's news

NORTH CAROLINA

1) Cancellations just keep on coming for NC. Even after McCrory's non-fix 'fix'. http://www.wral.com/all-you-need-is-love.../15640184/ While Ringo Starr isn't particularly a big draw, he's a HUGE name. I think this should be enough to let NC know that McCrory's affirmation of employment discrimination in private employment isn't going to stop the damage from the NC GOP anti-Gay agenda.

2) Polling just came out showing McCrory now behind Cooper in the polls (-4). And SB 2 is hugely unpopular too now (-12). Polling done by SurveyUSA. The bathroom discrimination provisions remain popular (56% in favor of the discriminatory treatment which is a LOT lower than I thought they'd be - shows that a large number of North Carolinians, although not yet a majority, 'get it') but the same poll shows the employment protection provisions in private employment covering LGBT persons to be hugely popular. I think movement, even on the bathroom issue is in our direction. And will probably continue to do so in NC in the coming weeks.

MISSISSIPPI

1) The biggest public event of the year for the Mississippi Development Authority folks was just cancelled by the local hosts (The Mississippi Picnic in the Park). And they didn't even bother to let the MDA know about it until they found out about it from the press.

2) Sharon Stone just pulled a film's production out of Mississippi

3) Phil Bryant is facing questions about how he does or doesn't protect his own family.

4) A coalition of Democrats in the MS legislature announced plans to offer up an opportunity for the Mississippi legislature to make changes to HB 1523 before it goes into effect on July 1. That was immediately rejected out of hand by the MS GOP.

TENNESSEE

A particularly nasty and dangerous bill allowing for counseling refusals is on Gov. Haslam's desk. People aren't waiting for Haslam to sign it before starting the condemnations. I don't know what Haslam does.

Haslam will likely have to decide whether to veto or not a SB 2 clone bill, expected to pass through Tennessee's gerrymandered legislature.

Does he placate his far, far, far right base, or does he save his state from the 'crazy train' and himself and his legacy from national revulsion.

MISSOURI

Appears to have killed a NC style SB 2 bill there. Not completely dead, but pretty close.

LOUISIANA

Became (again) the 21st state with state protections for LGBT employees. Gov John Bel Edwards, as was widely expected, reinstated employment protections for LGBT employees that was cancelled by former Governor Jindal. And also cancelled another EO by Jindal that specifically allowed for discrimination by state contractors and private commercial entities.

GEORGIA

Governor Deal ® announced in an interview that 'if the legislature sends me something like that next year, I'll veto it again'. Deal was responding to calls by GOP state legislators to pass additional anti-LGBT legislation.

OTHER

Various anti-Trans/Gay bills are floating around in Michigan and a few other states. I think the furor over NC and Miss is stopping an avalanche of anti-Gay bills in their tracks. While the outrage at North Carolina and Mississippi is real and justified, it is also in the interest of the anti-discrimination folks to ensure that nothing legally is held back while expressing our outrage as the longer this chaos and outrage occurs, the less likely it is that similar bills being proposed in over a dozen states end up being enacted.

Have a dick use the mens room and locker room.

Under SB 2, where does a man with a pen(s (who was born in Tennessee and is a Transgendered male) use the restroom in Charlotte's airport?

The ladies room.

Airports have private stalls. Keep your junk private.

Actually, North Carolina's legislature just passed a law (SB 2) that mandates as a matter of law that it is ILLEGAL for a government building (which includes the American hub airports in Charlotte or Raleigh, schools, or a Convention Center) to allow allow any Transgendered male with a p9nis (born in Tennessee) to use any multi-occupancy restroom other than the LADIES room. I'm not aware of any single occupancy restroom at Charlotte airport. Are you?

Dude, SB 2 doesn't keep men out of ladies rooms. Actually it mandates that men use the ladies room.

That is what it seems that some here just can't seem to grasp.
04-13-2016 10:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SuperFlyBCat Offline
Banned

Posts: 49,366
Joined: Mar 2005
I Root For: America and UC
Location: Cincinnati
Post: #494
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 10:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:46 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 08:07 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-13-2016 05:40 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the daily recap of today's news

NORTH CAROLINA

1) Cancellations just keep on coming for NC. Even after McCrory's non-fix 'fix'. http://www.wral.com/all-you-need-is-love.../15640184/ While Ringo Starr isn't particularly a big draw, he's a HUGE name. I think this should be enough to let NC know that McCrory's affirmation of employment discrimination in private employment isn't going to stop the damage from the NC GOP anti-Gay agenda.

2) Polling just came out showing McCrory now behind Cooper in the polls (-4). And SB 2 is hugely unpopular too now (-12). Polling done by SurveyUSA. The bathroom discrimination provisions remain popular (56% in favor of the discriminatory treatment which is a LOT lower than I thought they'd be - shows that a large number of North Carolinians, although not yet a majority, 'get it') but the same poll shows the employment protection provisions in private employment covering LGBT persons to be hugely popular. I think movement, even on the bathroom issue is in our direction. And will probably continue to do so in NC in the coming weeks.

MISSISSIPPI

1) The biggest public event of the year for the Mississippi Development Authority folks was just cancelled by the local hosts (The Mississippi Picnic in the Park). And they didn't even bother to let the MDA know about it until they found out about it from the press.

2) Sharon Stone just pulled a film's production out of Mississippi

3) Phil Bryant is facing questions about how he does or doesn't protect his own family.

4) A coalition of Democrats in the MS legislature announced plans to offer up an opportunity for the Mississippi legislature to make changes to HB 1523 before it goes into effect on July 1. That was immediately rejected out of hand by the MS GOP.

TENNESSEE

A particularly nasty and dangerous bill allowing for counseling refusals is on Gov. Haslam's desk. People aren't waiting for Haslam to sign it before starting the condemnations. I don't know what Haslam does.

Haslam will likely have to decide whether to veto or not a SB 2 clone bill, expected to pass through Tennessee's gerrymandered legislature.

Does he placate his far, far, far right base, or does he save his state from the 'crazy train' and himself and his legacy from national revulsion.

MISSOURI

Appears to have killed a NC style SB 2 bill there. Not completely dead, but pretty close.

LOUISIANA

Became (again) the 21st state with state protections for LGBT employees. Gov John Bel Edwards, as was widely expected, reinstated employment protections for LGBT employees that was cancelled by former Governor Jindal. And also cancelled another EO by Jindal that specifically allowed for discrimination by state contractors and private commercial entities.

GEORGIA

Governor Deal ® announced in an interview that 'if the legislature sends me something like that next year, I'll veto it again'. Deal was responding to calls by GOP state legislators to pass additional anti-LGBT legislation.

OTHER

Various anti-Trans/Gay bills are floating around in Michigan and a few other states. I think the furor over NC and Miss is stopping an avalanche of anti-Gay bills in their tracks. While the outrage at North Carolina and Mississippi is real and justified, it is also in the interest of the anti-discrimination folks to ensure that nothing legally is held back while expressing our outrage as the longer this chaos and outrage occurs, the less likely it is that similar bills being proposed in over a dozen states end up being enacted.

Have a dick use the mens room and locker room.

Under SB 2, where does a man with a pen(s (who was born in Tennessee and is a Transgendered male) use the restroom in Charlotte's airport?

The ladies room.

Airports have private stalls. Keep your junk private.

Actually, North Carolina's legislature just passed a law (SB 2) that mandates as a matter of law that it is ILLEGAL for a government building (which includes the American hub airports in Charlotte or Raleigh, schools, or a Convention Center) to allow allow any Transgendered male with a p9nis (born in Tennessee) to use any multi-occupancy restroom other than the LADIES room. I'm not aware of any single occupancy restroom at Charlotte airport. Are you?

Dude, SB 2 doesn't keep men out of ladies rooms. Actually it mandates that men use the ladies room.

OK 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao
04-13-2016 10:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,088
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #495
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
A woman wanting/feeling she's a man isn't a man.
04-13-2016 10:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
South Carolina Duke Offline
Banned

Posts: 5,964
Joined: Apr 2013
I Root For: James Madison
Location: Palmetto State
Post: #496
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
Going forward,... I suggest each of you that feel like retiring and collecting Social Security , regardless of age, should have the right to collect SS.
04-14-2016 08:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,088
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #497
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
I feel like I'm 80. I want my back pay.
04-14-2016 08:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DaSaintFan Offline
Dum' Sutherner in Midwest!
*

Posts: 17,170
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 595
I Root For: Southern Miss
Location: Stuck in St. Louis
Post: #498
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
(04-13-2016 06:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  [quote='DaSaintFan' pid='13194431' dateline='1460585441']
[quote='Tom in Lazybrook' pid='13182178' dateline='1460240738']

I'll start with Section 3, Part 4. Very broadly written my friend. Allows for the denial of health care.

Uhm.. .
Quote:Read lines 65-67 again. Section 2 refers to a lot more than gender reassignment surgery. Psychiatry is a medical field. There are complications (regarding prescriptions etc.) where medical treatment might be 'necessary' or 'essential' but not 'immediately life threatening'. Also for transgendered persons there could be dangerous, debilitating, but not immediately life threatening complications resulting from gender reassignment surgery.

Tom I've read that same paragraph over and over and over. To me the message is pretty much what UofM and I stated and it's pretty much the same as I read it... Sorry Tom, but I think you're the one that's continuing to misread what it says.

We'll have to see what the courts say when it's said and done.

Quote:And even worse, there's no mandate that the denied medical care be provided in the same area at the same level and under the same insurance coverage/price. It appears to be up to the denied patient to figure where or even IF they can get the needed medical care.

UHmmm.. It's like that for ANY non-life threatening situation, regardless of whether or not you're homosexual or heterosexual.

If you have an issue at the same level/price of what you can/can't do, talk to your insurance company/health-care providing company, not the state or the state's court systems

Again, it's is specifically noted in the second paragraph in the same section you're so adamant about not including until now.

-------------
WTF is an 'emergency' under this bill? Chemotherapy isn't an emergency but you'll die if its denied long enough (or if the only providers in your insurance plan won't treat you) for example.
--------------

If you're that far in remission that you need Chemo... I'd wager it's considered part of a life threatening procedure per your insurance company. (depending on the doctor.. I know some doctor's who tried to avoid it.)

Quote:A hospital or a doctor could refuse to treat a complication or infection related to gender reassignment surgery and face no punishment even if the person dies a day or two later "We'll she was fine when she left my office, just a bad infection. Not my fault she couldn't find anyone willing to treat her before it got worse".

Baloney, Complications or infections related to ANY surgery can be (and should be) covered as "possible life threatening". Again, that means it falls under the entire clause that has been discussed.

--------
Its Mississippi. Minorities have to always look at the 'worst case scenario'. Because that, sadly, is frequently the outcome. It doesn't have to be that way, but events just keep proving us right.
--------

Please Tom, Point out a story somewhere where a patient was denied medical service in the state of Mississippi or North Carolina or any other state that has contemplated/passed these type of laws, because they were gay or transgendered. They may exist.. but I've never seen one.

Quote:That being said, I'm actually surprised by the opposition that has been voiced against HB 1523. Although I doubt that any state legislator will lose his or her seat over their votes in favor of the bill.

Heck, Missouri's got something in the works and the big companies in St. Louis and KC are actually opposed to this bill that's up for debate... (I haven't looked at it yet). I missed why he said they were opposed to the bill, but I think had something to do with someone mentioning that the bigger companies be held accountable while mom and pop's would not...
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2016 08:32 AM by DaSaintFan.)
04-14-2016 08:31 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tom in Lazybrook Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,253
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 446
I Root For: So Alabama, GWU
Location: Houston
Post: #499
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
Ok...lets try this again.

Section 2 clearly defines the three protected religious beliefs as including:

The belief that marriage is between a man and a woman
or
The belief that sexual relations are reserved for persons married in male/female relations.

That covers 99.9999% of non-transexual Gay/Lesbian persons (who, 99.9999% like straight persons, are not lifelong celebates)

----

Now, the bill includes psychology too, which is a MEDICAL field.

---

There have been cases where insurance companies have only allowed persons who refused to serve LGBT persons, then used the 'no approved provider' excuse to simply deny coverage. Denial of insurance for services in many cases is the same as denial of all service. Off the top of my head, I can think up this case from CALIFORNIA (!) where an insurance company effectively used the 'religious beliefs loophole' to completely deny service to LGBT persons. This is now illegal in California. It appears to be completely legal for an insurance company to do that in Mississippi. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4941377&page=1

---

There is no requirement in this law that the denied person be provided the medical care in that area, in any area, either. I note that you don't think that it is any bad thing if LGBT persons can't get equal treatment because of discriminatory insurance practices.

---

If a definition is vague, like 'emergency', then those using it can be protected broadly. You used the words 'can be' to describe a possible denial of surgery for complications from sex reassignment surgery. That, legally is the opposite of 'must be'.

---

Look, if Mississippi didn't 'broadly interpret a ban on same sex marriage' to deny to rent a publicly owned venue open generally to rentals to couple, simply because they are LGBT, then maybe you could discount my fear that Mississippi's anti-Gays will interpret this bill in the most broad way possible http://www.lgbtqnation.com/tag/mississip...ry-museum/

Or if municipalities didn't create 'de facto' bans on LGBT persons owning businesses catering to the LGBT community, you might be able to credibly argue that Mississippi will implement this in as non-discriminatory manner as possible. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/04...83751.html

Or if the Sheriff of a large Mississippi County (Forrest) didn't fire a LGBT employee simply because he was 'outed' as being gay as the result of being the victim of A CRIME. And then that same Sheriff used as a legal defense.."well its legal to fire someone for being Gay in Mississippi". https://www.aclu.org/video/mississippi-s...being-gay.

Or if transgendered students in Moss Point aren't hounded out of their schools by Principals. https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justic...ict-et-al. Something that also happened in Itawamba (and its NOT the Candace McMillan case).

And Phil Bryant will have a strong input as to the implementation of this law. If you know any LGBT Mississippians, ask them about how they think Phil Bryant will 'protect' LGBT persons from discrimination. You'll probably get a story about callousness that will make your head spin.

And I'm not even going to go into the Ovett case, the refusal of the Harrison County Sheriff's Department to properly investigate a murder of a Gay man in Biloxi, or the Candace McMillan case, or the denial of the ability of LGBT persons to even publicly protest their legislature at the moment they were debating a bill impacting their community.

Look, I get that you're from Mississippi. But you don't live there anymore. You have to realize that sh*t like this is extremely rare outside Mississippi. Yes, there are LGBT people in Mississippi that have never been refused medical care, beaten up for being LGBT and then have their father place their career over justice for their kids, been hounded out of school by the principals for being LGBT, been denied a business license for being LGBT, etc. But there's an environment in Mississippi where not only these shocking events are a lot more frequent than elsewhere, but also that when these events happen, resolution usually involves not an appeal to fair treatment (which sadly hasn't worked very well there), but a lawsuit. And that's why laws designed to protect those discriminating against LGBT Mississippians are very dangerous.

Not all Mississippians are bad people. But there are plenty that are malevolent. And there are bad folks elsewhere. But in Mississippi, too often the government and the 'majority culture' sides with those doing bad things. I have no idea why they keep doing it.

---

Seriously. There's a history here. A recent history. A shocking history. It seems to me that what comes out of Mississippi is far too frequently so discriminatory as to raise legitimate questions as to how this will be implemented in practice.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2016 10:10 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-14-2016 09:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
200yrs2late Offline
Resident Parrothead
*

Posts: 15,751
Joined: Jan 2010
Reputation: 846
I Root For: East Carolina
Location: SE of disorder
Post: #500
RE: North Carolina's Anti LGBT law
Mcrory goes from -10 to +5 in latest poll.

April
Mcrory 35% - Cooper 45%
http://wncn.com/2016/04/29/civitas-poll-...ngs-slump/

May
Mcrory 45% - Cooper 40%
https://www.nccivitas.org/2016/mccrory-r...itas-poll/

On HB2 -

56% House Bill 2 offers protection of individual privacy and safety in public restrooms and locker rooms, and protects the rights of business owners to make workplace decisions without government interference.

34% House Bill 2 unjustly discriminates against individuals based on their self-perceived gender and prevents cities from enacting ordinances that would provide open access to public restrooms and locker rooms.
https://www.nccivitas.org/polling-spotli...2016-poll/
06-01-2016 06:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2026 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2026 MyBB Group.