(03-24-2016 12:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  "Between 1984 and 1989, the homicide rate for black males aged 14 to 17 more than doubled, and the homicide rate for black males aged 18 to 24 increased nearly as much. During this period, the black community also experienced a 20%–100% increase in fetal death rates, low birth-weight babies, weapons arrests, and the number of children in foster care.[19] In 1996, approximately 60% of inmates incarcerated in the US were sentenced on drug charges. The United States remains the largest overall consumer of narcotics in the world as of 2014.[18][20]"

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/c...story.html

Quote:According to the US Drug Enforcement Agency, by the late 1970s there was a huge glut of cocaine powder being shipped into the United States. This caused the price of the drug to drop by as much as 80%. Faced with dropping prices for their illegal product, drug dealers converted the powder to “crack,” a solid form of cocaine that could be smoked.


Broken into small chunks, or “rocks,” this form of cocaine could be sold in smaller quantities, to more people at bigger profit. It was cheap, simple to produce, easy to use, and highly profitable for dealers.

As early as 1980, reports of crack use were appearing in Los Angeles, San Diego, Houston and the Caribbean.

The biggest surge in the use of the drug occurred during the “crack epidemic,” between 1984 and 1990, when the drug spread across American cities. The crack epidemic dramatically increased the number of Americans addicted to cocaine. In 1985, the number of people who admitted using cocaine on a routine basis increased from 4.2 million to 5.8 million.


By the end of 1986, crack was available in twenty-eight states and the District of Columbia. By 1987, crack was reported to be available in all but four states in the United States. Since then, use of the drug has continued to spread throughout North and South America and into Europe and the rest of the world.

Hmmmmm......is it just me or are the dates in my quote strangely similar to the ones in Fit's quote?

So its Jimmy Carter's fault?

(03-24-2016 01:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I understand what you are saying. But lets not pretend that the problems you mention were exclusive to black families.

You've been reminded, many times, of two things on this thread. (1) Nobody is saying it was a problem exclusive to African Americans. (2) No one is saying there is something particular which makes an individual AA more prone to this (no race is superior).

But you keep pretending either people are saying that or that those facts mean you can ignore many more AA's are affected by these problems.

Quote:The problems you speak of faced most inner city families regardless of race.

But it disproportionately effects AA's. And started to do that in the 60's, not the 80's.

Quote:In this case, the influx of cocaine into inner cities effected black communities on a wider scale than most other people. If you want to talk about a lagging effect. It was the campaign against drug use that only escalated when it began to effect the urban areas of America.

You keep obsessing with symptoms of problems because you don't like what the root is..

(03-24-2016 01:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:25 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  "Between 1984 and 1989, the homicide rate for black males aged 14 to 17 more than doubled, and the homicide rate for black males aged 18 to 24 increased nearly as much. During this period, the black community also experienced a 20%–100% increase in fetal death rates, low birth-weight babies, weapons arrests, and the number of children in foster care.[19] In 1996, approximately 60% of inmates incarcerated in the US were sentenced on drug charges. The United States remains the largest overall consumer of narcotics in the world as of 2014.[18][20]"

Homicide rates and drug use among teens and 20-somethings are a lagging indicator of problems, not a leading one.

Think about it fit... Those kids, thrust into a no fathers culture from the mid 50's through the 70's were turning 15-35 when the 80's came around.

Kids born into a dysfunctional community are not killers today, they are killers in 15-25 years.

These same kids became more prone to use drugs (low birth weight high infant mortality).

The war on drugs, for better or worse, was not an action it was a reaction and the laws were passed by a democratic congress not by Reagan.

It's not like perfectly find African American 12 year olds became 13 year old monsters because Reagan won in 1980 and took office in 81. There were a lot of damaged 12 year old with real problems that bloomed as they got older.

I understand what you are saying. But lets not pretend that the problems you mention were exclusive to black families. The problems you speak of faced most inner city families regardless of race. However, the statistics I presented represent how it effected the black community during this time. That is the point I am trying to make. While any president can have policies that are positive or negative, it's going to effect different people in different ways.

In this case, the influx of cocaine into inner cities effected black communities on a wider scale than most other people. If you want to talk about a lagging effect. It was the campaign against drug use that only escalated when it began to effect the urban areas of America.

But the federal government is only involved when the drug crosses state lines. Possession and street dealing are a state/local issue and Reagan had little to do with those arrests other than local law enforcement passing on big fish leads to the DEA.

(03-24-2016 01:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:25 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  "Between 1984 and 1989, the homicide rate for black males aged 14 to 17 more than doubled, and the homicide rate for black males aged 18 to 24 increased nearly as much. During this period, the black community also experienced a 20%–100% increase in fetal death rates, low birth-weight babies, weapons arrests, and the number of children in foster care.[19] In 1996, approximately 60% of inmates incarcerated in the US were sentenced on drug charges. The United States remains the largest overall consumer of narcotics in the world as of 2014.[18][20]"

Homicide rates and drug use among teens and 20-somethings are a lagging indicator of problems, not a leading one.

Think about it fit... Those kids, thrust into a no fathers culture from the mid 50's through the 70's were turning 15-35 when the 80's came around.

Kids born into a dysfunctional community are not killers today, they are killers in 15-25 years.

These same kids became more prone to use drugs (low birth weight high infant mortality).

The war on drugs, for better or worse, was not an action it was a reaction and the laws were passed by a democratic congress not by Reagan.

It's not like perfectly find African American 12 year olds became 13 year old monsters because Reagan won in 1980 and took office in 81. There were a lot of damaged 12 year old with real problems that bloomed as they got older.

I understand what you are saying. But lets not pretend that the problems you mention were exclusive to black families. The problems you speak of faced most inner city families regardless of race. However, the statistics I presented represent how it effected the black community during this time. That is the point I am trying to make. While any president can have policies that are positive or negative, it's going to effect different people in different ways.

In this case, the influx of cocaine into inner cities effected black communities on a wider scale than most other people. If you want to talk about a lagging effect. It was the campaign against drug use that only escalated when it began to effect the urban areas of America.

But the federal government is only involved when the drug crosses state lines. Possession and street dealing are a state/local issue and Reagan had little to do with those arrests other than passing on leads.

True. But the fact that looked the other way while cocaine was infecting inner cities was enough to ruin a generation of inner city kids. We are still feeling the effects of it today in a lot of different ways. So it isn't part of the culture of blacks like so many would have you believe. It's the almost inescapable problems of inner city life that they have to deal with coupled with a history of discrimination that this country practically institutionalized.

(03-24-2016 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  True. But the fact that looked the other way while cocaine was infecting inner cities was enough to ruin a generation of inner city kids. We are still feeling the effects of it today in a lot of different ways. So it isn't part of the culture of blacks like so many would have you believe. It's the almost inescapable problems of inner city life that they have to deal with coupled with a history of discrimination that this country practically institutionalized.

Awesome.... Blames the 80's for things still happening today in the same discussion where he minimizes how things in the 60's caused problems in the 80's

(03-24-2016 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:25 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  "Between 1984 and 1989, the homicide rate for black males aged 14 to 17 more than doubled, and the homicide rate for black males aged 18 to 24 increased nearly as much. During this period, the black community also experienced a 20%–100% increase in fetal death rates, low birth-weight babies, weapons arrests, and the number of children in foster care.[19] In 1996, approximately 60% of inmates incarcerated in the US were sentenced on drug charges. The United States remains the largest overall consumer of narcotics in the world as of 2014.[18][20]"

Homicide rates and drug use among teens and 20-somethings are a lagging indicator of problems, not a leading one.

Think about it fit... Those kids, thrust into a no fathers culture from the mid 50's through the 70's were turning 15-35 when the 80's came around.

Kids born into a dysfunctional community are not killers today, they are killers in 15-25 years.

These same kids became more prone to use drugs (low birth weight high infant mortality).

The war on drugs, for better or worse, was not an action it was a reaction and the laws were passed by a democratic congress not by Reagan.

It's not like perfectly find African American 12 year olds became 13 year old monsters because Reagan won in 1980 and took office in 81. There were a lot of damaged 12 year old with real problems that bloomed as they got older.

I understand what you are saying. But lets not pretend that the problems you mention were exclusive to black families. The problems you speak of faced most inner city families regardless of race. However, the statistics I presented represent how it effected the black community during this time. That is the point I am trying to make. While any president can have policies that are positive or negative, it's going to effect different people in different ways.

In this case, the influx of cocaine into inner cities effected black communities on a wider scale than most other people. If you want to talk about a lagging effect. It was the campaign against drug use that only escalated when it began to effect the urban areas of America.

But the federal government is only involved when the drug crosses state lines. Possession and street dealing are a state/local issue and Reagan had little to do with those arrests other than passing on leads.

True. But the fact that looked the other way while cocaine was infecting inner cities was enough to ruin a generation of inner city kids. We are still feeling the effects of it today in a lot of different ways. So it isn't part of the culture of blacks like so many would have you believe. It's the almost inescapable problems of inner city life that they have to deal with coupled with a history of discrimination that this country practically institutionalized.

Nobody "looked away", the feds and local law enforcement were simply unprepared when the South American cartels started flooding the country with crack. Prior to the crack flood the only cocaine they were dealing with was the powder form being used by the disco crowd. When seemingly overnight the problem shifts from one area to another law enforcement isn't prepared.

Same thing happened when the Mexican cartels and the outlaw biker gangs brought meth to the east coast a little over a decade ago.

(03-24-2016 01:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  True. But the fact that looked the other way while cocaine was infecting inner cities was enough to ruin a generation of inner city kids. We are still feeling the effects of it today in a lot of different ways. So it isn't part of the culture of blacks like so many would have you believe. It's the almost inescapable problems of inner city life that they have to deal with coupled with a history of discrimination that this country practically institutionalized.

Awesome.... Blames the 80's for things still happening today in the same discussion where he minimizes how things in the 60's caused problems in the 80's

I'm not dismissing what was happening in the 60's. That is also part of the equation. My point is simply to point out that it isn't some somehow "part of their culture" as if they teach their children to be this way. It's part of an American culture that adversely effects minorities more because of their socioeconomic status in this country.

(03-24-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  True. But the fact that looked the other way while cocaine was infecting inner cities was enough to ruin a generation of inner city kids. We are still feeling the effects of it today in a lot of different ways. So it isn't part of the culture of blacks like so many would have you believe. It's the almost inescapable problems of inner city life that they have to deal with coupled with a history of discrimination that this country practically institutionalized.

Awesome.... Blames the 80's for things still happening today in the same discussion where he minimizes how things in the 60's caused problems in the 80's

I'm not dismissing what was happening in the 60's. That is also part of the equation. My point is simply to point out that it isn't some somehow "part of their culture" as if they teach their children to be this way. It's part of an American culture that adversely effects minorities more because of their socioeconomic status in this country.

So it's not their fault if the commit crimes as a youth and use drugs and get sent to prison? In your mind they can't help it because of the 'socioeconomic status I suppose. The problem isnt that they teach their children to be that way, the problem is in many cases they don't teach their children to NOT be that way.

(03-24-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  True. But the fact that looked the other way while cocaine was infecting inner cities was enough to ruin a generation of inner city kids. We are still feeling the effects of it today in a lot of different ways. So it isn't part of the culture of blacks like so many would have you believe. It's the almost inescapable problems of inner city life that they have to deal with coupled with a history of discrimination that this country practically institutionalized.

Awesome.... Blames the 80's for things still happening today in the same discussion where he minimizes how things in the 60's caused problems in the 80's

I'm not dismissing what was happening in the 60's. That is also part of the equation. My point is simply to point out that it isn't some somehow "part of their culture" as if they teach their children to be this way. It's part of an American culture that adversely effects minorities more because of their socioeconomic status in this country.

Bottom line - there is a "winning formula" to getting along in American society as what we might define as "Normal American". There are certain things one has to do as well as some things not to do.

What the majority of the poor in America have failed to do is figure out the steps required in the "winning formula" and do enough of those, while refraining from those activities that could be called "losing activities".

Every adult American has the power to do or not do certain things. Do enough of the "right" things and "normal American" takes place. Do enough of the wrong things and poverty and a host of other "afflictions" dog a person. I knew plenty of people my age that have fallen of the map either dead or deadbeat - too many wrong activities - but no one held a gun to their head and forced them into any of it...............

(03-24-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I'm not dismissing what was happening in the 60's. That is also part of the equation. My point is simply to point out that it isn't some somehow "part of their culture" as if they teach their children to be this way.

Oh for the love of pete. Nobody has seriously said it's "part of their culture". But it is a part of their community. You are, intentionally or otherwise, wasting peoples timeby fighting a straw man.

Quote:It's part of an American culture that adversely effects minorities more because of their socioeconomic status in this country.

Chicken and egg... I put it to you that single parent families are a bigger cause of poverty than poverty is a cause of single parent families.

So.....test scores.

And, if all these illegal drugs were made legal, what would happen?

(03-24-2016 02:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  And, if all these illegal drugs were made legal, what would happen?

We'd have our drug addicts at home instead of prison.

Wouldn't that solve all of our problems?

(03-24-2016 01:43 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:19 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  True. But the fact that looked the other way while cocaine was infecting inner cities was enough to ruin a generation of inner city kids. We are still feeling the effects of it today in a lot of different ways. So it isn't part of the culture of blacks like so many would have you believe. It's the almost inescapable problems of inner city life that they have to deal with coupled with a history of discrimination that this country practically institutionalized.

Awesome.... Blames the 80's for things still happening today in the same discussion where he minimizes how things in the 60's caused problems in the 80's

I'm not dismissing what was happening in the 60's. That is also part of the equation. My point is simply to point out that it isn't some somehow "part of their culture" as if they teach their children to be this way. It's part of an American culture that adversely effects minorities more because of their socioeconomic status in this country.

So it's not their fault if the commit crimes as a youth and use drugs and get sent to prison? In your mind they can't help it because of the 'socioeconomic status I suppose. The problem isnt that they teach their children to be that way, the problem is in many cases they don't teach their children to NOT be that way.

Of course it's their fault if they commit crimes. No one is saying that criminals should go unpunished. Why does it always have to be one way or the other with you guys. The world is full of shades of grey.

(03-24-2016 02:32 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  And, if all these illegal drugs were made legal, what would happen?

We'd have our drug addicts at home instead of prison.

Wouldn't that solve all of our problems?

Most of them would be in prison anyway because drug possession is usually a secondary charge after they were found with the drugs when they got busted doing something else.

(03-24-2016 02:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  And, if all these illegal drugs were made legal, what would happen?

Most EMS agencies will break their budget on Narcan within six months.

(03-24-2016 02:32 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  And, if all these illegal drugs were made legal, what would happen?

We'd have our drug addicts at home instead of prison.

Wouldn't that solve all of our problems?

Who said all of our problems would be solved. There is a such thing as rehabilitation you know. Many of these people would get clean and go on with their lives.

I have a friend who got a felony charge for transporting drugs at age 18. He did one year in prison. Afterward, he got married and became a born again Christian. You wouldn't find a nicer man but guess what. He can't hardly find a good job 20 years later because of that felony charge. He's been on and off welfare for years. Unemployment, food stamps, HUD you name it.

If we truly want to help people get off of government assistance and save the tax payer money, we need to find a different approach than to just put people in jail.

(03-24-2016 02:43 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:32 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  And, if all these illegal drugs were made legal, what would happen?

We'd have our drug addicts at home instead of prison.

Wouldn't that solve all of our problems?

Most of them would be in prison anyway because drug possession is usually a secondary charge after they were found with the drugs when they got busted doing something else.

Would they have been doing the other thing if they weren't involved in illegal drug dealings?

(03-24-2016 02:50 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:43 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:32 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  And, if all these illegal drugs were made legal, what would happen?

We'd have our drug addicts at home instead of prison.

Wouldn't that solve all of our problems?

Most of them would be in prison anyway because drug possession is usually a secondary charge after they were found with the drugs when they got busted doing something else.

Would they have been doing the other thing if they weren't involved in illegal drug dealings?

Unless the drug became free, yes. Maybe not the turf wars, but it takes a lot of desperation to rob a liquor store to buy a $20 rock of crack. Some problems will go away, some will get worse, and new ones will emerge. The money makers will find a new way to make money, to include a larger presence in the schools and new black market activities. They aren't going to sing "Kumbaya" and turn in a job application to Burger King. They'd riot first.

(03-24-2016 01:58 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I'm not dismissing what was happening in the 60's. That is also part of the equation. My point is simply to point out that it isn't some somehow "part of their culture" as if they teach their children to be this way.

Oh for the love of pete. Nobody has seriously said it's "part of their culture". But it is a part of their community. You are, intentionally or otherwise, wasting peoples timeby fighting a straw man.

Quote:It's part of an American culture that adversely effects minorities more because of their socioeconomic status in this country.

Chicken and egg... I put it to you that single parent families are a bigger cause of poverty than poverty is a cause of single parent families.

I can't believe this lunacy has gone on for page after page. Feeding the troll is always a fools errand.

But, since I've already wasted enough time reading the fitfail of the day, I gotta ask-

Fitty? You got a source for that crack running to inner cities to fund Contras, claim? If it's "common knowledge" it should be pretty easy to back up, I'm guessing you can't or won't.