(01-14-2016 11:50 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  America is not a business-friendly country anymore. It is extremely hard to open a business here, mostly due to the overbearing regulations.

I remember watching an episode of Shark Tank and them saying how much easier it is to open a business in Canada. That's just sad.

It isn't very small business friendly, but it is very corporate friendly. That's what happens when you raise barriers to entry to this level.

(01-07-2014 07:25 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(01-07-2014 06:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-07-2014 01:34 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(01-07-2014 12:40 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Corporations don't pay taxes, they load them onto the price of their products and collect them and pass them through to the government. That means the same people who pay consumption taxes pay corporate taxes.

This is largely untrue. It's shocking how little economic knowledge some people have.

Maybe it's not true on the white board in a classroom.

In the real world, it's absolutely true.

In theory, theory works well in practice. In practice, it doesn't.

No it's not. It's dumb to say so.

Bluntly...You don't know what fck you are talking about.

I'm literally laughing my ass off at one specific poster here.... The one claiming to be all sorts of things that he demonstrably is not.... while many of the rest of us very clearly are.

I'll make it simple for you Grad.... because you seem to want to run when you demonstrably have no legs.

Where does an owner of a company get the money to pay their tax bill? If you answer is ANYTHING other than 'from their customers through the price of their goods or services' then you are being misleading at best.

Whether or not they are able to pass on 100% of their tax burden is company specific... meaning that when GE moves a factory offshore or takes advantage of some other government action to avoid taxes or to take advantage of a tax credit/rebate, they don't NEED to pass on their tax, because they aren't paying all of the tax otherwise due.... so GE's competitor who can't or doesn't take that same opportunity can't pass on their entire burden. In THIS case, the burden is actually being shared by the competitor, plus the government that gave GE the tax break. That government generally either needs to cut spending to cover that break, OR they need to raise revenues in OTHER ways... and therefore the entire burden IS being passed on... only through a far more complex means than is appropriate to talk about 'in the abstract'.

The bottom line is that taxes are an expense to an investor/owner/corporation like anything else.... and companies do ALL THEY CAN to pass on their expenses. In aggregate, successful companies pass on MORE THAN 100% of their expenses.

ALL of their expenses.

(01-14-2016 11:50 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  America is not a business-friendly country anymore. It is extremely hard to open a business here, mostly due to the overbearing regulations.

I remember watching an episode of Shark Tank and them saying how much easier it is to open a business in Canada. That's just sad.

I don't think you can really say that.

First, there is so much difference between the various states it's difficult to lump everybody in together.

Besides, the Federal Government has no involvement with LLCs, which make up a massive part of America's small business and investment structures.

If anything, we are fairly friendly because unlike many nations we allow people to claim all sorts of exemptions and "pack" themselves into their own business with our Subchapter S designation.

You also have things like FDAP income designations which allow foreigners to park money here easier.

American's biggest bottleneck to business, in my opinion, lies more with our banking regulations and laws than it does with our corporate laws or tax structure. But, alas, nobody really wants to talk banking because it is a total grey area for most.

Also, our securities regulations overreach to some extent to discourage smaller growth. But, it's still not bad comparatively.

The truth its, from a Federal standpoint, we are a very business friendly nations when compared to nations with a similar level of security and infrastructure. You'd have to point the finger at certain states to say we are not. And, admittedly so, many states are expensive and difficult to work in; I'm looking at you California and New York.

(01-14-2016 12:56 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I'm literally laughing my ass off at one specific poster here.... The one claiming to be all sorts of things that he demonstrably is not.... while many of the rest of us very clearly are.

I'll make it simple for you Grad.... because you seem to want to run when you demonstrably have no legs.

Where does an owner of a company get the money to pay their tax bill? If you answer is ANYTHING other than 'from their customers through the price of their goods or services' then you are being misleading at best.

Whether or not they are able to pass on 100% of their tax burden is company specific... meaning that when GE moves a factory offshore or takes advantage of some other government action to avoid taxes or to take advantage of a tax credit/rebate, they don't NEED to pass on their tax, because they aren't paying all of the tax otherwise due.... so GE's competitor who can't or doesn't take that same opportunity can't pass on their entire burden. In THIS case, the burden is actually being shared by the competitor, plus the government that gave GE the tax break. That government generally either needs to cut spending to cover that break, OR they need to raise revenues in OTHER ways... and therefore the entire burden IS being passed on... only through a far more complex means than is appropriate to talk about 'in the abstract'.

The bottom line is that taxes are an expense to an investor/owner/corporation like anything else.... and companies do ALL THEY CAN to pass on their expenses. In aggregate, successful companies pass on MORE THAN 100% of their expenses.

ALL of their expenses.

In our business we price our products...cost of materials+Labor+Mill cost(overhead)+20%= selling price Mill cost include a variety of misc costs...one of them is taxes. If taxes go up? We must decide to absorb that increase or accept a lower margin. It is for damn sure a part of pricing and is passed along to the consumer. This is what embedded taxes are all about.

Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".

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(01-14-2016 05:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".

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Taxes are a cost of "doing business". All costs of "doing business" are factored into the price of goods and services by anyone that has any business acumen. Only someone who has never run a successful business would assert otherwise.

(01-14-2016 06:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 05:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".

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Taxes are a cost of "doing business". All costs of "doing business" are factored into the price of goods and services by anyone that has any business acumen. Only someone who has never run a successful business would assert otherwise.

For all change order proposals on my project the contractor must submit all itemized costs + margin. One of them is tax.

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(01-14-2016 06:08 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 05:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Taxes are a cost of "doing business". All costs of "doing business" are factored into the price of goods and services by anyone that has any business acumen. Only someone who has never run a successful business would assert otherwise.

For all change order proposals on my project the contractor must submit all itemized costs + margin. One of them is tax.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

We have a "mill factor". It is a long standing estimated misc. cost factor. Taxes are for damn sure part of that factor.

(01-14-2016 06:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:08 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 05:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Taxes are a cost of "doing business". All costs of "doing business" are factored into the price of goods and services by anyone that has any business acumen. Only someone who has never run a successful business would assert otherwise.

For all change order proposals on my project the contractor must submit all itemized costs + margin. One of them is tax.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

We have a "mill factor". It is a long standing estimated misc. cost factor. Taxes are for damn sure part of that factor.

Is that like a mechanics "shop" fee?

(01-15-2016 09:02 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:08 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 05:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Taxes are a cost of "doing business". All costs of "doing business" are factored into the price of goods and services by anyone that has any business acumen. Only someone who has never run a successful business would assert otherwise.

For all change order proposals on my project the contractor must submit all itemized costs + margin. One of them is tax.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

We have a "mill factor". It is a long standing estimated misc. cost factor. Taxes are for damn sure part of that factor.

Is that like a mechanics "shop" fee?

Basically..yes.

(01-15-2016 10:15 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 09:02 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:08 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:05 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Taxes are a cost of "doing business". All costs of "doing business" are factored into the price of goods and services by anyone that has any business acumen. Only someone who has never run a successful business would assert otherwise.

For all change order proposals on my project the contractor must submit all itemized costs + margin. One of them is tax.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

We have a "mill factor". It is a long standing estimated misc. cost factor. Taxes are for damn sure part of that factor.

Is that like a mechanics "shop" fee?

Basically..yes.

Thanks. I always see that fee and it's different every time even for the same services, etc. Figured it was just an add on for more profit.

(01-14-2016 05:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".

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It seems more to me that his knowledge is practical, but that he distorts what he knows to suit his beliefs.

As an example, it is absolutely true that if we change corporate tax rates by 10%, that you won't see a 10% increase in all costs on every corporate balance sheet.....

but that is because companies that lose money aren't subject to those taxes... though they will soon be going out of business... neither are companies that leave the jurisdiction.... so SOME of those costs are borne by governments or other tax payers or wage losses etc.

and NOT as he implies because 'consumers' don't ultimately and in aggregate pay them.

He's making a pedantic and pointless correction to a factual summary of a VERY complex equation.

(01-14-2016 09:55 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 04:25 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  So in a nutshell what I'm trying to say is that a corporation has to look at everything that will be involved in moving or staying in a certain location.

This is why it took so long for GE to move in the first place, and why they limited their search area. They are somewhat tied to the northeast. It wouldnt have taken much to keep GE, and it took a hell of a lot to get them to move. Liberals know this, which is why they are so inflexible. They believe that corporations will stick around with higher taxes because the logistics of moving a HQ can be such a nightmare.

Had GE been willing to look beyond the northeast, there's no telling what kind of offers they would have received from Texas, Tennessee, etc.

really? and why would that be other than that's where the guys that make all the money that sponge bath the politicians live?

deflation is here.....better get used to it....

costa countdown....14.5

(01-15-2016 01:06 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 05:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Seems like most of UM2001s knowledge is "classroom knowledge".
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It seems more to me that his knowledge is practical, but that he distorts what he knows to suit his beliefs.
As an example, it is absolutely true that if we change corporate tax rates by 10%, that you won't see a 10% increase in all costs on every corporate balance sheet.....
but that is because companies that lose money aren't subject to those taxes... though they will soon be going out of business... neither are companies that leave the jurisdiction.... so SOME of those costs are borne by governments or other tax payers or wage losses etc.
and NOT as he implies because 'consumers' don't ultimately and in aggregate pay them.
He's making a pedantic and pointless correction to a factual summary of a VERY complex equation.

He hasn't been on in a while. His last post to this thread was about a year ago. Maybe he is on here under another screen name, although none of the current posters seems to have his particular combination of extreme left viewpoint and obnoxious attitude.

He and I discussed this issue several times. Perhaps the most memorable one from my point of view was the time he gave four company examples as proof that businesses were staying here rather than moving because of taxes--and a quick review of most recent 10-K filings revealed that at least three of the four were in the process of major moves overseas.

(01-15-2016 10:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 10:15 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 09:02 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 06:08 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  For all change order proposals on my project the contractor must submit all itemized costs + margin. One of them is tax.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

We have a "mill factor". It is a long standing estimated misc. cost factor. Taxes are for damn sure part of that factor.

Is that like a mechanics "shop" fee?

Basically..yes.

Thanks. I always see that fee and it's different every time even for the same services, etc. Figured it was just an add on for more profit.

surcharges are sticky wicket.....especially for small business owners....Katrina and the gouging from the oil corps made for a few tough years....and I started mine after the fact.....4 bucks/gl will hurt anyone

during my previous slavery servitude in corpshite 'murica, when china started to build faux cities, we had to apply surcharges to offset the impact of rising raw material costs...which in turn, drove ridiculous demands on my group to reduce material thicknesses to uncomfortable levels that eventually bit those bastards in the arse....

I'm eating sushi and steak this 'winter'.....gas pricing weighs heavily on my bottom line.....I laugh at all this shite now and have developed a business that is basically insulated from the bs that hasn't quite happened yet....

14.5 more years.....that's all I need to escape this pit that will only be dug into deeper....

this cuntry is so screwed....the stock market? yeah buggy.....it's funny what happens when the bean counters no longer have options and the cuntry that owns a large portion of your debt over exceeded their credit limit too.....

I just laugh at all this shite now.....emerging markets???...Peter Lynch??? the Omaha savior????.....I liquidated my 6 fig 401k 10 yrs ago.....yeah, at 40.....that penalty wasn't shite relative to what I've done with it....

money.....she can be funny.....

good luck to yaz....just wait a few more years when the boomers really start to fk with your health care costs.....and drag everything down with it....

you can't build something w/o expecting to repair the pot holes along the way...many americans are now simply a pot hole that is due their penance in becoming spoiled....

and I'm a pot head