(08-30-2015 11:17 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  I thought OSU played at UC in like 2002 or so. For some reason I recall UC having a chance to win it at the end of the game and missing several shots at the endzone.

They did indeed. That was a pretty crazy game. Could have derailed the buckeyes national title season.

The 2002 game was down at Paul Brown, however. The game last year was scheduled to be played in Nippert in 2012 before OSU and UC agreed to move the game to Columbus. Then with all the craziness the Big East was undergoing, UC requested to move the game back to 2014 (I think it was originally to accomodate TCU on the schedule, aka hilarious).

(08-30-2015 11:06 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(08-30-2015 11:00 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-30-2015 12:03 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Cincinnati is revenue negative unless they are a requirement to launch the ACCN. It is difficult to imagine that being the case. Cincinnati only delivers a bit of Cincinnati and NKY. They can't even get a 2 for 1 with Ohio State, much less a home and home.

Louisville only got the invite because Maryland executed their own football program for the indefinite future for the pursuit of a short term cash gain that would allow them to not cut deeply unprofitable Olympic sports... a move I would still describe to this day as highly questionable. Do you know anybody else in the ACC who'd take a solo ride to the B1G right now to free a spot for Cincinnati? It is again difficult to imagine such a scenario.

What does that have to do with anything? UC signed that stupid contract with OSU when we were in CUSA. But we have home and homes with IU, Purdue, UCLA, Nebraska, BYU, Hurricanes etc.

It's actually even wrong. The series with Ohio State was a home and home. OSU and UC struck a deal, cash to move the game back to Columbus. A generous donation to the Nippert expansion fund. These are the moves you make when you don't have a big TV contract.

Then mea culpa.

I have nothing against Cincinnati, and I vastly prefer them to UCONN or some of the more silly suggestions like Georgetown or Villanova or Temple or USF.

But I vastly prefer to all of them and Cincinnati somebody in the deep south who is a natural tie-in to the football powers within the ACC. Somebody like Tennessee.

(08-31-2015 02:21 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(08-30-2015 11:17 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  I thought OSU played at UC in like 2002 or so. For some reason I recall UC having a chance to win it at the end of the game and missing several shots at the endzone.

They did indeed. That was a pretty crazy game. Could have derailed the buckeyes national title season.

The 2002 game was down at Paul Brown, however. The game last year was scheduled to be played in Nippert in 2012 before OSU and UC agreed to move the game to Columbus. Then with all the craziness the Big East was undergoing, UC requested to move the game back to 2014 (I think it was originally to accomodate TCU on the schedule, aka hilarious).

In the contract OSU had an option to move the 2nd game in Cincy to CBus, and they exercised that option, of course they would. UC played well in the 2002 game. Last 3 possessions ended in turnovers. The contract called for both games at PBS. We did ruin Wisconsin's BCS title hopes in 99' at Nippert. They won the Rose Bowl that year though.

Cincinnati has ties to the old metro conference Along with Georgia Tech and FSU. Who else does the league go for? WVU or UConn?

(08-31-2015 10:00 PM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Cincinnati has ties to the old metro conference Along with Georgia Tech and FSU. Who else does the league go for? WVU or UConn?

I'd invite WVU, UCF, USF, Temple, and Memphis before UCONN.

When you look at Cincinnati, I think you have to look at (1) where they ARE, (2) what is their potential, and (3) what is their trajectory (sort of like with Louisville).

1. Right now Cincinnati = Wake Forest, the smallest school in the P5, in terms of fan support and accomplishments. Indeed, Wake beat Va Tech last year, but UC lost to the Hokies.

2. Being located in the state of Ohio and on the Ohio River, UC has massive potential. It is located in a hotbed of recruiting for both football and basketball.

3. The city of Cincinnati has been shrinking. In 1950 there were over 500,000 living there. In 2010 it was thought to have over 330,000 resident, only to find it was really just under 300k. Despite this, however, the University of Cincinnati has been moving forward with renovations to its football stadium, which will be followed by upgrades to the basketball arena.

Q: Are the Bearcats a slam dunk?
A: No, not at all - no team currently in the G5 is - but they are probably the best G5 expansion candidate East of BYU. You can make an argument for UConn, but they have even further to go than Cincinnati, IMO. The only "safe" expansion for the ACC would be Notre Dame and, maybe, to grab up teams from the Big XII when/if it dissolves. With anyone else you're just counting on their potential - and I don't see a lot of Louisvilles out there.

(09-01-2015 04:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  When you look at Cincinnati, I think you have to look at (1) where they ARE, (2) what is their potential, and (3) what is their trajectory (sort of like with Louisville).

1. Right now Cincinnati = Wake Forest, the smallest school in the P5, in terms of fan support and accomplishments. Indeed, Wake beat Va Tech last year, but UC lost to the Hokies.

2. Being located in the state of Ohio and on the Ohio River, UC has massive potential. It is located in a hotbed of recruiting for both football and basketball.

3. The city of Cincinnati has been shrinking. In 1950 there were over 500,000 living there. In 2010 it was thought to have over 330,000 resident, only to find it was really just under 300k. Despite this, however, the University of Cincinnati has been moving forward with renovations to its football stadium, which will be followed by upgrades to the basketball arena.

Q: Are the Bearcats a slam dunk?
A: No, not at all - no team currently in the G5 is - but they are probably the best G5 expansion candidate East of BYU. You can make an argument for UConn, but they have even further to go than Cincinnati, IMO. The only "safe" expansion for the ACC would be Notre Dame and, maybe, to grab up teams from the Big XII when/if it dissolves. With anyone else you're just counting on their potential - and I don't see a lot of Louisvilles out there.

Honestly I like Cincinnati's potential, but I just don't see the ACC taking on a "project" type of school. We need established brand name, big name schools. In a perfect world, PSU would join with ND. That is not happening. Texas is possible given the dysfunction in the big12 (never mind that most of it is because of Texas). They may be willing to give up the LHN if the ACCN with ND and Texas is lucrative enough.

(09-01-2015 06:15 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 04:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  When you look at Cincinnati, I think you have to look at (1) where they ARE, (2) what is their potential, and (3) what is their trajectory (sort of like with Louisville).

1. Right now Cincinnati = Wake Forest, the smallest school in the P5, in terms of fan support and accomplishments. Indeed, Wake beat Va Tech last year, but UC lost to the Hokies.

2. Being located in the state of Ohio and on the Ohio River, UC has massive potential. It is located in a hotbed of recruiting for both football and basketball.

3. The city of Cincinnati has been shrinking. In 1950 there were over 500,000 living there. In 2010 it was thought to have over 330,000 resident, only to find it was really just under 300k. Despite this, however, the University of Cincinnati has been moving forward with renovations to its football stadium, which will be followed by upgrades to the basketball arena.

Q: Are the Bearcats a slam dunk?
A: No, not at all - no team currently in the G5 is - but they are probably the best G5 expansion candidate East of BYU. You can make an argument for UConn, but they have even further to go than Cincinnati, IMO. The only "safe" expansion for the ACC would be Notre Dame and, maybe, to grab up teams from the Big XII when/if it dissolves. With anyone else you're just counting on their potential - and I don't see a lot of Louisvilles out there.

Honestly I like Cincinnati's potential, but I just don't see the ACC taking on a "project" type of school. We need established brand name, big name schools. In a perfect world, PSU would join with ND. That is not happening. Texas is possible given the dysfunction in the big12 (never mind that most of it is because of Texas). They may be willing to give up the LHN if the ACCN with ND and Texas is lucrative enough.

Ain't No Bout a Doubt it ! It would be Off the charts as far as viewership goes and opening up both Florida and Texas for recruiting Hotbeds ! Only the SEC currently supplies both in the P5. AAC has it covered for the rest in the G5.

(09-01-2015 04:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  When you look at Cincinnati, I think you have to look at (1) where they ARE, (2) what is their potential, and (3) what is their trajectory (sort of like with Louisville).

1. Right now Cincinnati = Wake Forest, the smallest school in the P5, in terms of fan support and accomplishments. Indeed, Wake beat Va Tech last year, but UC lost to the Hokies.

2. Being located in the state of Ohio and on the Ohio River, UC has massive potential. It is located in a hotbed of recruiting for both football and basketball.

3. The city of Cincinnati has been shrinking. In 1950 there were over 500,000 living there. In 2010 it was thought to have over 330,000 resident, only to find it was really just under 300k. Despite this, however, the University of Cincinnati has been moving forward with renovations to its football stadium, which will be followed by upgrades to the basketball arena.

Q: Are the Bearcats a slam dunk?
A: No, not at all - no team currently in the G5 is - but they are probably the best G5 expansion candidate East of BYU. You can make an argument for UConn, but they have even further to go than Cincinnati, IMO. The only "safe" expansion for the ACC would be Notre Dame and, maybe, to grab up teams from the Big XII when/if it dissolves. With anyone else you're just counting on their potential - and I don't see a lot of Louisvilles out there.

#3 is a bit misleading. You are correct in stating the city proper only has a population of 300k, but the metro are has expanded to 2.2m. Unlike a lot of cities, CIncinnati has not annexed any surrounding townships or cities. There has been tremendous growth in the surrounding counties which in essence are CIncinnati suburbs.

#1 is highly debatable as well. If you just count butts in the football stadium you might have a point on their similarities but if you look at other measurables like merchandise sales UC is further ahead.

Cincinnati also is covered by the Suburbs of Northern Ky that probably equal a city that if it were one would be the second largest population base in Kentucky. If Any of You have ever been to the Cincinnati Metro area You would see a huge population abounding there. Not 300k. There are lots of things to do in Cincinnati for a fun filled weekend road trip.

Why are folks eager to add a school that is just another mouth to feed?


Expansion is VERY simple.


You can count on one hand schools that actually are worth the trouble of adding them.

*Texas
*Notre Dame

The rest are in the B1G or SEC and NO school will leave those conferences.


All this discussion of other schools is an attempt to rebuild the old Big East or Metro......WHY is there a desire to do this?


Think it is a lack of understanding of college football.....it is ALL about college football and those schools are not players in that game.


Dead weight.

(09-01-2015 08:00 AM)nole Wrote:  Expansion is VERY simple.


You can count on one hand schools that actually are worth the trouble of adding them.

*Texas
*Notre Dame

Notre Dame is already an ACC member. The rest of your previous statement, I agree with wholeheartedly.

(09-01-2015 08:28 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 08:00 AM)nole Wrote:  Expansion is VERY simple.


You can count on one hand schools that actually are worth the trouble of adding them.

*Texas
*Notre Dame

Notre Dame is already an ACC member. The rest of your previous statement, I agree with wholeheartedly.

Not in football they are not....and most importantly, not in revenue they are not.

That is all that matters.

Notre Dame is NOT an ACC member in football......that is what this WHOLE discussion is about. Member in Olympic sports and Bball does not matter.

(09-01-2015 08:42 AM)nole Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 08:28 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 08:00 AM)nole Wrote:  Expansion is VERY simple.


You can count on one hand schools that actually are worth the trouble of adding them.

*Texas
*Notre Dame

Notre Dame is already an ACC member. The rest of your previous statement, I agree with wholeheartedly.

Not in football they are not....and most importantly, not in revenue they are not.

That is all that matters.

Notre Dame is NOT an ACC member in football......that is what this WHOLE discussion is about. Member in Olympic sports and Bball does not matter.

Point well taken, Nole. In fact, it's probably not accurate to call Notre Dame a 5/8ths member in football, either. True, they play 5 ACC games (avg) per year, but for full members the ACC controls ALL HOME GAMES (typically 6 or 7)... for Notre Dame, the ACC only controls 2 to 3 home games. Looking at it that way, Notre Dame is about a 2.5/6.5 ( = 38%) member for football.

With Notre Dame and Cincinnati, you connect Indiana. Ohio and Kentucky to Pennsylvania and Virginia.

(09-01-2015 09:26 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  With Notre Dame and Cincinnati, you connect Indiana. Ohio and Kentucky to Pennsylvania and Virginia.

It's more than just geographic bridges.

UC would be a GREAT add for the Big XII (as I said earlier, I still don't understand the reasoning behind not adding UC earlier/yet and turning UL down), but the ACC is in a different situation than the Big XII. UC fields great teams and generally has fans that I like, but we need more than that. Our targets should be PSU, ND (as a full), Texas, and WVU. Specifically, we need money, credibility, and ideally a strong cultural fit. UC doesn't add money, UC doesn't add credibility (although in a fair world, they absolutely would), and UC isn't a particularly strong cultural fit for ACC schools besides UL.

But, for whatever it's worth, there aren't words for how much more I like UC than either PSU or WVU, and I like UC WAY more than ND and Texas.

(09-01-2015 09:26 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  With Notre Dame and Cincinnati, you connect Indiana. Ohio and Kentucky to Pennsylvania and Virginia.

Let it die wilkie, let it die.....................

(09-01-2015 07:42 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Cincinnati also is covered by the Suburbs of Northern Ky that probably equal a city that if it were one would be the second largest population base in Kentucky. If Any of You have ever been to the Cincinnati Metro area You would see a huge population abounding there. Not 300k. There are lots of things to do in Cincinnati for a fun filled weekend road trip.

I am a happy Kentuckian now for almost 2 years. It is liquor store heaven when you cross the border into Covington. Well Hell Yeah.

(09-01-2015 04:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  When you look at Cincinnati, I think you have to look at (1) where they ARE, (2) what is their potential, and (3) what is their trajectory (sort of like with Louisville).

1. Right now Cincinnati = Wake Forest, the smallest school in the P5, in terms of fan support and accomplishments. Indeed, Wake beat Va Tech last year, but UC lost to the Hokies.

2. Being located in the state of Ohio and on the Ohio River, UC has massive potential. It is located in a hotbed of recruiting for both football and basketball.

3. The city of Cincinnati has been shrinking. In 1950 there were over 500,000 living there. In 2010 it was thought to have over 330,000 resident, only to find it was really just under 300k. Despite this, however, the University of Cincinnati has been moving forward with renovations to its football stadium, which will be followed by upgrades to the basketball arena.

Q: Are the Bearcats a slam dunk?
A: No, not at all - no team currently in the G5 is - but they are probably the best G5 expansion candidate East of BYU. You can make an argument for UConn, but they have even further to go than Cincinnati, IMO. The only "safe" expansion for the ACC would be Notre Dame and, maybe, to grab up teams from the Big XII when/if it dissolves. With anyone else you're just counting on their potential - and I don't see a lot of Louisvilles out there.

1. Wut? UC = Wake? I mean, wut?

2. No, they don't have "massive" potential. They have potential, though, just like every other single school in the country; just like every other failing-to-realize-their-potential school already in the ACC.

3. Who cares? Did you even look at the metro area?

A: UC is a solid program. But they aren't what the ACC needs and the ACC won't be expanding with them. If someone were to leave like UMD did, than UC would be a good replacement. They're a replacement school, not an expansion school.

The biggest question/point you failed to touch upon was revenue. How does UC affect the tv/conference revenue equation? According to all the "experts" on the board, FSU would NOT increase tv revenue by going to a different conference. FSU would just be an additional "slice" taken out of the already existing "pie". So don't the experts have to continue to maintain that position with UC? So if UC costs everyone money, why add them?

Even if ESPN would agree to keep payouts the same, why add them? If you're not actually improving or increasing anything, what's the point? Does the ACC's football reputation improve?

People in this thread are wanting to add UC just for the sake of expansion. But expansion happens for financial and strategic reasons only. What are the financial and strategic benefits of UC?

(09-01-2015 12:03 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 04:31 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  When you look at Cincinnati, I think you have to look at (1) where they ARE, (2) what is their potential, and (3) what is their trajectory (sort of like with Louisville).

1. Right now Cincinnati = Wake Forest, the smallest school in the P5, in terms of fan support and accomplishments. Indeed, Wake beat Va Tech last year, but UC lost to the Hokies.

2. Being located in the state of Ohio and on the Ohio River, UC has massive potential. It is located in a hotbed of recruiting for both football and basketball.

3. The city of Cincinnati has been shrinking. In 1950 there were over 500,000 living there. In 2010 it was thought to have over 330,000 resident, only to find it was really just under 300k. Despite this, however, the University of Cincinnati has been moving forward with renovations to its football stadium, which will be followed by upgrades to the basketball arena.

Q: Are the Bearcats a slam dunk?
A: No, not at all - no team currently in the G5 is - but they are probably the best G5 expansion candidate East of BYU. You can make an argument for UConn, but they have even further to go than Cincinnati, IMO. The only "safe" expansion for the ACC would be Notre Dame and, maybe, to grab up teams from the Big XII when/if it dissolves. With anyone else you're just counting on their potential - and I don't see a lot of Louisvilles out there.

1. Wut? UC = Wake? I mean, wut?

2. No, they don't have "massive" potential. They have potential, though, just like every other single school in the country; just like every other failing-to-realize-their-potential school already in the ACC.

3. Who cares? Did you even look at the metro area?

A: UC is a solid program. But they aren't what the ACC needs and the ACC won't be expanding with them. If someone were to leave like UMD did, than UC would be a good replacement. They're a replacement school, not an expansion school.

The biggest question/point you failed to touch upon was revenue. How does UC affect the tv/conference revenue equation? According to all the "experts" on the board, FSU would NOT increase tv revenue by going to a different conference. FSU would just be an additional "slice" taken out of the already existing "pie". So don't the experts have to continue to maintain that position with UC? So if UC costs everyone money, why add them?

Even if ESPN would agree to keep payouts the same, why add them? If you're not actually improving or increasing anything, what's the point? Does the ACC's football reputation improve?

People in this thread are wanting to add UC just for the sake of expansion. But expansion happens for financial and strategic reasons only. What are the financial and strategic benefits of UC?

For that matter, what are the strategic and financial reasons for any P5 to expand except by taking schools from other P5 conferences? If any other schools had significant (P5 like) value, somebody would be paying them for that value already.