(05-06-2015 12:54 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

Untrue. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

The Big-12 as a power conference would in fact cease to exist. It would still be the best and strongest non-power conference and would have a higher average attendance, higher budgets, higher media deal, and better bowls than any other G5. For instance---say this is the final result--

Kansas
Iowa St
Baylor
Houston
Cinci
SMU
UConn
Memphis
Boise
BYU
Navy
Air Force

That's the strongest G5 conference by far---and it even has a geographic core that makes sense. Boise and UConn are kinda on the edges---but they have enough value to stretch. There are lots of different combos---this is just an example so nobody should get mad if they are left out of this example (plus it could be as many as 16 teams with 4 team pods if deregulation is passed). And don't forget, W Virginia could be left dangling as well. If its 16, add in W Virginai, ECU, USF, and UCF. That 16 team G5 is so dominant that no other G5 will ever see the access bowl.

(05-06-2015 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 12:54 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

Untrue. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

The Big-12 as a power conference would in fact cease to exist. It would still be the best and strongest non-power conference and would have a higher average attendance, higher budgets, higher media deal, and better bowls than any other G5. For instance---say this is the final result--

Kansas
Iowa St
Baylor
Houston
Cinci
SMU
UConn
Memphis
Boise
BYU
Navy
Air Force

That's the strongest G5 conference by far---and it even has a geographic core that makes sense. Boise and UConn are kinda on the edges---but they have enough value to stretch. There are lots of different combos---this is just an example so nobody should get mad if they are left out of this example (plus it could be as many as 16 teams with 4 team pods if deregulation is passed). And don't forget, W Virginia could be left dangling as well. If its 16, add in W Virginai, ECU, USF, and UCF. That 16 team G5 is so dominant that no other G5 will ever see the access bowl.

I just don't see Kansas, Iowa State, and Baylor, as big enough draws to attract all of those other teams. They just aren't tent-pole quality programs.

UCF and USF have more to offer, outside of KU basketball. It's a stretch to see the Presidents making those moves on speculation. Khator ditching Genshaft for Ken Starr and another nonBCS conference? I'm not seeing it.

The Big East leftovers didn't go to C-USA. C-USA teams were called up to the American.

It would play out exactly the same way with the Big 12. The Big 12 would have its pick of BYU and MWC and AAC teams.

Unless both BYU and Boise decide to join there is no reason to expand right now because there are no other teams (outside of the P5) that would increase the value of this conference. It's fun to think we would be able to pick up the pieces of a Big12 implosion but I doubt that would happen unless there is a huge change in the landscape of college football. Big12 is P5 and the AAC is not. If they implode and there are only 3 teams left over; precedent states (i.e. BIG EAST) that any G5 team invited would join up for the $$ and the chance at playoffs. Now if the AAC closes the gap between us and the P5 before 2027, maybe we could turn the tables, but that is an up-hill battle we probably won't win no matter what we do on the field.

(05-06-2015 03:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  The Big East leftovers didn't go to C-USA. C-USA teams were called up to the American.

It would play out exactly the same way with the Big 12. The Big 12 would have its pick of BYU and MWC and AAC teams.

I agree. The Big 12 would just pick off available MWC and AAC teams. BYU would probably joisince the league would still be a power league although lacking major elite brands. TV at best would drop to $10 million which would be fine for AAC, BYU, or MWC schools.

(05-06-2015 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 12:54 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

Untrue. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

The Big-12 as a power conference would in fact cease to exist. It would still be the best and strongest non-power conference and would have a higher average attendance, higher budgets, higher media deal, and better bowls than any other G5. For instance---say this is the final result--

Kansas
Iowa St
Baylor
Houston
Cinci
SMU
UConn
Memphis
Boise
BYU
Navy
Air Force

That's the strongest G5 conference by far---and it even has a geographic core that makes sense. Boise and UConn are kinda on the edges---but they have enough value to stretch. There are lots of different combos---this is just an example so nobody should get mad if they are left out of this example (plus it could be as many as 16 teams with 4 team pods if deregulation is passed). And don't forget, W Virginia could be left dangling as well. If its 16, add in W Virginai, ECU, USF, and UCF. That 16 team G5 is so dominant that no other G5 will ever see the access bowl.

You need to grab your meds if you think wv would be left dangling for Houston.

(05-06-2015 04:02 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 12:54 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

Untrue. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

The Big-12 as a power conference would in fact cease to exist. It would still be the best and strongest non-power conference and would have a higher average attendance, higher budgets, higher media deal, and better bowls than any other G5. For instance---say this is the final result--

Kansas
Iowa St
Baylor
Houston
Cinci
SMU
UConn
Memphis
Boise
BYU
Navy
Air Force

That's the strongest G5 conference by far---and it even has a geographic core that makes sense. Boise and UConn are kinda on the edges---but they have enough value to stretch. There are lots of different combos---this is just an example so nobody should get mad if they are left out of this example (plus it could be as many as 16 teams with 4 team pods if deregulation is passed). And don't forget, W Virginia could be left dangling as well. If its 16, add in W Virginai, ECU, USF, and UCF. That 16 team G5 is so dominant that no other G5 will ever see the access bowl.

You need to grab your meds if you think wv would be left dangling for Houston.

Not to mention Houston hasn't exactly had good ratings in general. Then football attendance is overall uninspiring and hoops attendance is terrible. No way would WVU be left behind if in a conference with houston, smu, Memphis, Iowa state, etc. Just not realistic. WVU would be the cream of the crop in that league.

I don't think he meant it the way you took it. If WV moved on, he was suggesting a group. If WV was left dangling ie stuck in whats left of B12 then you add blank. I doubt you end up with the group he picked if things went as he suggested, but who knows.

I do agree B12 will be adding and not AAC adding. First off you won't lose everyone at once, you may lose 2-4= or 6 in a couple of moves, there will be time to react to those moves.

(05-06-2015 04:02 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 12:54 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

The Big-12 as a power conference would in fact cease to exist. It would still be the best and strongest non-power conference and would have a higher average attendance, higher budgets, higher media deal, and better bowls than any other G5. For instance---say this is the final result--

Kansas
Iowa St
Baylor
Houston
Cinci
SMU
UConn
Memphis
Boise
BYU
Navy
Air Force

That's the strongest G5 conference by far---and it even has a geographic core that makes sense. Boise and UConn are kinda on the edges---but they have enough value to stretch. There are lots of different combos---this is just an example so nobody should get mad if they are left out of this example (plus it could be as many as 16 teams with 4 team pods if deregulation is passed). And don't forget, W Virginia could be left dangling as well. If its 16, add in W Virginai, ECU, USF, and UCF. That 16 team G5 is so dominant that no other G5 will ever see the access bowl.

You need to grab your meds if you think wv would be left dangling for Houston.

Agree. You clearly misunderstood. I never said Houston would be selected over WVU. By "dangling", I mean, W Virginia was left behind in the Big 12 (as in, not selected by another P5). In that scenario, they would have to be accommodated with more schools from that area. The conference I threw together as an example assumed only 3 B-12 schools left behind. The 16 team version added on teams built round WV.

(05-06-2015 04:31 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I don't think he meant it the way you took it. If WV moved on, he was suggesting a group. If WV was left dangling ie stuck in whats left of B12 then you add blank. I doubt you end up with the group he picked if things went as he suggested, but who knows.

I do agree B12 will be adding and not AAC adding. First off you won't lose everyone at once, you may lose 2-4= or 6 in a couple of moves, there will be time to react to those moves.

Exactly. And yes, my "conference" was just an example of the kind of group you could build. Some posters were saying schools in the AAC wouldn't jump---but I think you can see---a reloaded B12 could be very attractive. It actually could be a true "tweener" conference that might occasionally even land a team in the playoff. It would definitely have a better tv deal and a better bowl line up.

Ive said before a conference that averages 40K per game would be hard to ignore and would be treated much better than the typical G5 conference. Well, I suspect a rebuilt Big-12 would probably average around 40K a game or better.

(05-06-2015 01:01 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:13 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 10:51 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  The American shouldn't add anyone after Navy.

Not BYU, Not Army, Not Air Force, no basketball only adds, noone.

I just remembered that there is a ticking time bomb of realignment and that time bomb is the Big 12.

What happens when Texas and Oklahoma inevitably leave when the LHN and GOR expire? We all know it's going to happen. They can go Independent, or join the PAC and they will be highly successful. Kansas will probably either join the SEC or B1G. TTech and OK State would likely go wherever UT-Austin and OU go, but what happens to those left behind?

The American needs to have open spots and the stability to potentially add programs looking for a home in WVU, TCU, K State, etc.

A 2027 league that still holds all the current programs, and is well established in the college athletics world that add members in the Northeast (Near Philly and Cinci) and another Dallas member would be a landslide victory.

But even if that doesn't happen, we shouldn't expand unless there is a clearly advantageous reason, and quite frankly, there is no reason to expand at all.

Vote no on expansion!

If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW. We wont be adding anyone. They will define their peers. Not us. Keep in mind, there will be a huge basket of exit fee income and NCAA credits sitting in the Big-12 shell. It would not be financially prudent for any remaining members to walk away from that basket of goodies to join the nearest G5 conference. They, like the Big East left overs, will offer just enough to entice the best non-power schools to leave their current G5's and join them in a new Big-12. This is where BYU will end up.

So, I would make the moves necessary to make the AAC the best home it can be now. The AAC future is unknown, but it is likely not destined to become a power conference---so may as well make it the best it can be NOW.

Sorry to rain on your theory, If the best schools are picked off from the Big 12, then they will have no footing for a new contract of any worth. History stands on my side, See BE Circa 2013.

Which conference would you rather be in:

A gutted Big12 of Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia, Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech ....plus additions of BYU, Boise, AFA, and Houston, Cincy, UConn, Navy, ECU, UCF and USF....plus you get to keep the Big12 name and at least some of their bowl games and contracts

OR

The same Big12 schools added to Houston, SMU, Memphis, Cincy, ECU, UConn, UCF, Navy, Temple, Tulane and Tulsa.

I will add BYU, WV, and Iowa State, probably Kansas State too to the AAC and call it a day.

(05-06-2015 05:31 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 04:02 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 01:09 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 12:54 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

The Big-12 as a power conference would in fact cease to exist. It would still be the best and strongest non-power conference and would have a higher average attendance, higher budgets, higher media deal, and better bowls than any other G5. For instance---say this is the final result--

Kansas
Iowa St
Baylor
Houston
Cinci
SMU
UConn
Memphis
Boise
BYU
Navy
Air Force

That's the strongest G5 conference by far---and it even has a geographic core that makes sense. Boise and UConn are kinda on the edges---but they have enough value to stretch. There are lots of different combos---this is just an example so nobody should get mad if they are left out of this example (plus it could be as many as 16 teams with 4 team pods if deregulation is passed). And don't forget, W Virginia could be left dangling as well. If its 16, add in W Virginai, ECU, USF, and UCF. That 16 team G5 is so dominant that no other G5 will ever see the access bowl.

You need to grab your meds if you think wv would be left dangling for Houston.

Agree. You clearly misunderstood. I never said Houston would be selected over WVU. By "dangling", I mean, W Virginia was left behind in the Big 12 (as in, not selected by another P5). In that scenario, they would have to be accommodated with more schools from that area. The conference I threw together as an example assumed only 3 B-12 schools left behind. The 16 team version added on teams built round WV.

My apologies. I misunderstood and therefore spoke out of turn.

(05-06-2015 03:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  The Big East leftovers didn't go to C-USA. C-USA teams were called up to the American.

It would play out exactly the same way with the Big 12. The Big 12 would have its pick of BYU and MWC and AAC teams.

It's a completely different situation. CUSA 2.0 wasn't the quality of the AAC, and a gutted Big 12 is NOT the quality of a Big East that still had all the basketball schools, Louisville, Rutgers, and Notre Dame.

You're not even comparing apples to oranges. You've missed the produce section altogether.

(05-06-2015 05:52 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 01:01 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:13 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 10:51 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  The American shouldn't add anyone after Navy.

Not BYU, Not Army, Not Air Force, no basketball only adds, noone.

I just remembered that there is a ticking time bomb of realignment and that time bomb is the Big 12.

What happens when Texas and Oklahoma inevitably leave when the LHN and GOR expire? We all know it's going to happen. They can go Independent, or join the PAC and they will be highly successful. Kansas will probably either join the SEC or B1G. TTech and OK State would likely go wherever UT-Austin and OU go, but what happens to those left behind?

The American needs to have open spots and the stability to potentially add programs looking for a home in WVU, TCU, K State, etc.

A 2027 league that still holds all the current programs, and is well established in the college athletics world that add members in the Northeast (Near Philly and Cinci) and another Dallas member would be a landslide victory.

But even if that doesn't happen, we shouldn't expand unless there is a clearly advantageous reason, and quite frankly, there is no reason to expand at all.

Vote no on expansion!

If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW. We wont be adding anyone. They will define their peers. Not us. Keep in mind, there will be a huge basket of exit fee income and NCAA credits sitting in the Big-12 shell. It would not be financially prudent for any remaining members to walk away from that basket of goodies to join the nearest G5 conference. They, like the Big East left overs, will offer just enough to entice the best non-power schools to leave their current G5's and join them in a new Big-12. This is where BYU will end up.

So, I would make the moves necessary to make the AAC the best home it can be now. The AAC future is unknown, but it is likely not destined to become a power conference---so may as well make it the best it can be NOW.

Sorry to rain on your theory, If the best schools are picked off from the Big 12, then they will have no footing for a new contract of any worth. History stands on my side, See BE Circa 2013.

Which conference would you rather be in:

A gutted Big12 of Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia, Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech ....plus additions of BYU, Boise, AFA, and Houston, Cincy, UConn, Navy, ECU, UCF and USF....plus you get to keep the Big12 name and at least some of their bowl games and contracts

OR

The same Big12 schools added to Houston, SMU, Memphis, Cincy, ECU, UConn, UCF, Navy, Temple, Tulane and Tulsa.

I will add BYU, WV, and Iowa State, probably Kansas State too to the AAC and call it a day.

First...you cannot just force schools to join your conferfence. They have to want to come and I seriously doubt any of those schools would accept your invitation.

Second....you are saying you prefer to be in a conference with Temple, Tulsa and Tulane...... over Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and Air Force.

(05-06-2015 07:37 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 03:01 PM)YNot Wrote:  The Big East leftovers didn't go to C-USA. C-USA teams were called up to the American.

It would play out exactly the same way with the Big 12. The Big 12 would have its pick of BYU and MWC and AAC teams.

It's a completely different situation. CUSA 2.0 wasn't the quality of the AAC, and a gutted Big 12 is NOT the quality of a Big East that still had all the basketball schools, Louisville, Rutgers, and Notre Dame.

You're not even comparing apples to oranges. You've missed the produce section altogether.

basketball wise, iowa state, wvu, baylor are pretty legit and almost make the tourney every year

football wise, tcu wvu and baylor have been power teams, wvu not as much recently but they probably all average around a top15-20 ranking the last few years....
byu as openly said thy are desperate for a conference, and will almost certainly be added at that point (so add decent football and basketball)

boise will likely also jump.....
they are going to be picking us apart, not the other way around

(05-06-2015 07:39 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Second....you are saying you prefer to be in a conference with Temple, Tulsa and Tulane...... over Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and Air Force.

Without a BCS-level tag attached, those teams wont be any stronger than Temple, Tulsa, and Tulane. They wouldn't keep their old contracts, IMO. Say bye bye to their Champions game with the SEC. Their conference infrastructure would be gone.

(05-06-2015 07:45 PM)pesik Wrote:  basketball wise, iowa state, wvu, baylor are pretty legit and almost make the tourney every year

No more legit than UCONN, UC, Memphis, SMU, Temple, who almost make the tourney every year. All of their football programs would be recruiting on the same level as Tulane, Tulsa, and Temple, post break-up.

You seem to believe that those programs wont be affected by not eating at the Bevo trough. That's a false assumption.

When one conference is already as strong as the other, there is no way the Presidents are going to make a lateral jump because they want to get rid of perceived underachievers. That would be nothing close to the recruitment of Boise, Navy, Houston, Memphis, SMU, SDSU, Temple, etc, by the Big East. The Big East still had more than twice as many members and a BCS tag.

(05-06-2015 07:57 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 07:45 PM)pesik Wrote:  basketball wise, iowa state, wvu, baylor are pretty legit and almost make the tourney every year

No more legit than UCONN, UC, Memphis, SMU, Temple, who almost make the tourney every year. All of their football programs would be recruiting on the same level as Tulane, Tulsa, and Temple, post break-up.

You seem to believe that those programs wont be affected by not eating at the Bevo trough. That's a false assumption.

When one conference is already as strong as the other, there is no way the Presidents are going to make a lateral jump because they want to get rid of perceived underachievers. That would be nothing close to the recruitment of Boise, Navy, Houston, Memphis, SMU, SDSU, Temple, etc, by the Big East. The Big East still had more than twice as many members and a BCS tag.

wvu is actually doing worse in a power conference and was a regular top 10 in the weak big east...tcu was a regular top 10 in the MWC.... baylor is the only one you can argue that for, but their coach is an offensive genius and had houston top 25 in c-usa...and baylor currently dominatees the big 12 and it has nothing to do with recruiting

i fully expect iowa state to sink but i feel pretty comfortable saying the other 3 will be fine(tcu wvu for sure, baylor as long as briles remains their coach)

and they will have contracts and bowls...yes the tv deal wil be renegotiated down but it will likely still be 3 or 4 times larger than ours and the top bowl will be lost, but they will still salvage the bottom bowls.....the big 12 5-9 bowls will probably prefer being the new big 12's 1-4 bowls over the big 10's 12-14th bowl

and your enitire argument is based around the top of te AAC is basically equal to the the left overs....yes thats the point, they'll take the best of us to add to their value to double it...basically just eliminating our bottom feeders/mwc from the equation

you refuse to see it but they will be raiding us, not the other way around

When Texas leaves the Big 12;

1. Oklahoma and Kansas will move to the B1G.

2. Oklahoma St and Kansas St will move to the SEC.

3. That leaves Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Iowa St and WVU.

The PAC may (Big if here), take any two combination in Texas of Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Houston, SMU or Rice. They will take two if they take any. The PAC would fill any other openings from west of Texas.

The ACC would possibly take Cincinnati and WVU. I know, WVU doesn't fit their Academic Profile. Well neither does having fake classes for decades. I'm looking at you UNC.

That would move all Major Conferences to 16 teams. Notre Dame would still be Independent and Texas would join them.

Boise St and BYU may wind up in the PAC but, only if they bring the money bags and they're packed. Remember that Utah is against BYU and Boise St doesn't match the Academic profile of the PAC and they really do uphold Academic Standards.

(05-06-2015 07:50 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 07:39 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Second....you are saying you prefer to be in a conference with Temple, Tulsa and Tulane...... over Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and Air Force.

Without a BCS-level tag attached, those teams wont be any stronger than Temple, Tulsa, and Tulane. They wouldn't keep their old contracts, IMO. Say bye bye to their Champions game with the SEC. Their conference infrastructure would be gone.

You need to look at the facilities of those schools especially their stadiums plus their fan base. Tech has a 60,000 seat stadium, Baylor and TCU brand new 45,000 seat stadia and Air Force 50-60,000 seats. Tulsa has a 25,000 seat staidum, Tulane 24,000 and Temple has no stadium. Plus Air Force is not a Big12 or BCS school, so they lose nothing if the Big12 dissolves. Yes they would lose the Sugar Bowl, but simple logic tells you they would keep some of their contracts that are a lot better than the AAC bowls.

You can't be serious.....really there is no comparison.