(05-06-2015 11:56 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:46 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:43 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:28 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:24 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  Wrong, if they lose certain members then their contract is void. OU and Texas are paramount to their contract. Believe it.

Right. They will either need a new contract of the current contract will be renegotiated downward. The best of the rest they would assemble will still garner far more than our tiny very under valued deal.

Let's be realistic, ESPN/CBS/NBC/TNT will NOT be interested in such small tiny zero markets if UT and Oklahoma left.

Sorry, I don't see it so I won't buy it.

becaecause they won't be interested in baylor or tcu, who are top 5 teams to make the playoffs, kansas a national power in basketball

The moment UT and Oklahoma leave everyone will laugh, trash talk how weak the Big1/2 has become, so any accomplishments any of the above progras had will not be seeing ever again and no more 3, 4, 5 star recruits either.

Milking those two cows will be a thing of the past for them.

^^^ BING!!!!! You've won the Internet for the day!

(05-06-2015 10:51 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Vote no on expansion!

You mean I have a vote?

(05-06-2015 11:48 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  You don't know everything, stop acting like you do. The simple fact is that the Big 12's current contract is set for 10 members. If Texas were to decide to leave, OU would be right behind them. Fox would jump to void that contract. When the Lawyers came calling (And they would), Fox could show due cause and point the finger at OU and Texas. OU would just point to Texas and state that once they departed, OU had no reason to stay. Texas does not want to deal with that scenario or the Political backlash that would come from abandoning Texas tech, Baylor and TCU.

Here's a fun fact. Texas has done a viability study on Independence. They can go independent ala Notre Dame and maintain their current earnings level. This would be accomplished by a number of things such as 8-10 Home Games a year. Yes they are one of the rare schools able to get a 1-off. Meaning they get a one time game at their house for no return game.

Their problems were the LHN and the Big 12. I don't know what options they have or may look into for those two issues. Maybe they will do a partial membership with multiple conferences to obtain access to the NY6 Bowls and keep ESPN supporting the LHN, who knows. They have obviously decided to stay in the Big 12 for the remainder of this current contract.

Texas has options. OU has options and it is a common perception that Kansas has options. None of the rest have serious options available to them.

do you know how contracts work? the current big 12 deal wasnt even signed with the current members..all because one side doesnt like it anymore doesnt make it void

worst case is fox would sue to void...which i doubt, realistic option is that it would just be renogiated down...probably still much larger than the AAC contract

the last 3 paragraphs have nothing to do with the point, texas makes the most money in college football, offcourse they have options (no one is denying that), they can join ANY conference or go indy, not sure what tat had to do with anything...but currently they enjoy controlling the big 12...something that wnt have in other conferences

(05-06-2015 11:56 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:46 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:43 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:28 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:24 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  Wrong, if they lose certain members then their contract is void. OU and Texas are paramount to their contract. Believe it.

Right. They will either need a new contract of the current contract will be renegotiated downward. The best of the rest they would assemble will still garner far more than our tiny very under valued deal.

Let's be realistic, ESPN/CBS/NBC/TNT will NOT be interested in such small tiny zero markets if UT and Oklahoma left.

Sorry, I don't see it so I won't buy it.

becaecause they won't be interested in baylor or tcu, who are top 5 teams to make the playoffs, kansas a national power in basketball

The moment UT and Oklahoma leave everyone will laugh, trash talk how weak the Big1/2 has become, so any accomplishments any of the above progras had will not be seeing ever again and no more 3, 4, 5 star recruits either.

Milking those two cows will be a thing of the past for them.

Can we trademark the Big1/2?

(05-06-2015 11:48 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  Here's a fun fact. Texas has done a viability study on Independence. They can go independent ala Notre Dame and maintain their current earnings level. This would be accomplished by a number of things such as 8-10 Home Games a year. Yes they are one of the rare schools able to get a 1-off. Meaning they get a one time game at their house for no return game.

I agree that texas can get 8 - 10 home games a year, but if they do that they will not be able to play a schedule that would keep them in contention for a national championship.

(05-06-2015 11:13 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW. We wont be adding anyone. They will define their peers. Not us. Keep in mind, there will be a huge basket of exit fee income and NCAA credits sitting in the Big-12 shell. It would not be financially prudent for any remaining members to walk away from that basket of goodies to join the nearest G5 conference. They, like the Big East left overs, will offer just enough to entice the best non-power schools to leave their current G5's and join them in a new Big-12. This is where BYU will end up.

So, I would make the moves necessary to make the AAC the best home it can be now. The AAC future is unknown, but it is likely not destined to become a power conference---so may as well make it the best it can be NOW.

Sorry to rain on your theory, If the best schools are picked off from the Big 12, then they will have no footing for a new contract of any worth. History stands on my side, See BE Circa 2013.

I think history is on the side of Attackcoog. After all, Cincy, Connecticut, South Florida and Temple didn't join C-USA. They took who they wanted. I know there's a bit more to the story because the BE defectors left over the course of a couple seasons, but still.... the Big 12 remnants will add to their numbers unless there's only 1 or 2 schools left.

(05-06-2015 11:53 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:42 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Would we try to take all 4? WVU, Iowa State, TCU, Baylor? What could the then 12 year old American conference be able to negotiate?

Kruciff...those 4 will pick apart us with ease.....

they will come to us and say, we have talked to our partners our bottom 4 bowl partners vs p5 want to stay on board....and our tv partenr have agreed to renogaiate our deal down to 9-10 mill a piece if we pick up the teams they want..and we can likely add more p5 bowls by taking certain g5 teasm like memphis for the liberty..do honestly think any of us are turning them down???

we are contractually bound to how we divide the P5 revenue (note that wasnt changed when the big east collapsed but only when the contracted ended) and note any change even minor to the system must be a unanimous vote

they will pick us apart, take byu, boise maybe SDSU and take and choose of the AAC as they like

Looking ten years into the future, don't you think a scenario arises where the current makeup of the AAC could be in a stronger position than the remaining, leftover Big12 teams? Especially considering that exactly half of those remaining teams are recent additions?

(05-06-2015 11:56 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:46 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:43 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:28 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:24 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  Wrong, if they lose certain members then their contract is void. OU and Texas are paramount to their contract. Believe it.

Right. They will either need a new contract of the current contract will be renegotiated downward. The best of the rest they would assemble will still garner far more than our tiny very under valued deal.

Let's be realistic, ESPN/CBS/NBC/TNT will NOT be interested in such small tiny zero markets if UT and Oklahoma left.

Sorry, I don't see it so I won't buy it.

becaecause they won't be interested in baylor or tcu, who are top 5 teams to make the playoffs, kansas a national power in basketball

The moment UT and Oklahoma leave everyone will laugh, trash talk how weak the Big1/2 has become, so any accomplishments any of the above progras had will not be seeing ever again and no more 3, 4, 5 star recruits either.

Milking those two cows will be a thing of the past for them.

because tcu wasnt a top 10 team before or got 3/4 star players

(05-06-2015 12:01 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:48 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  You don't know everything, stop acting like you do. The simple fact is that the Big 12's current contract is set for 10 members. If Texas were to decide to leave, OU would be right behind them. Fox would jump to void that contract. When the Lawyers came calling (And they would), Fox could show due cause and point the finger at OU and Texas. OU would just point to Texas and state that once they departed, OU had no reason to stay. Texas does not want to deal with that scenario or the Political backlash that would come from abandoning Texas tech, Baylor and TCU.

Here's a fun fact. Texas has done a viability study on Independence. They can go independent ala Notre Dame and maintain their current earnings level. This would be accomplished by a number of things such as 8-10 Home Games a year. Yes they are one of the rare schools able to get a 1-off. Meaning they get a one time game at their house for no return game.

Their problems were the LHN and the Big 12. I don't know what options they have or may look into for those two issues. Maybe they will do a partial membership with multiple conferences to obtain access to the NY6 Bowls and keep ESPN supporting the LHN, who knows. They have obviously decided to stay in the Big 12 for the remainder of this current contract.

Texas has options. OU has options and it is a common perception that Kansas has options. None of the rest have serious options available to them.

do you know hoe contracts work? tghe current big 12 deal wasnt even signed with the current members..all because one side doesnt like it anymore doesnt make it void

worst case is fox would sue to void...which i doubt, realistic option is that it would just be renogiated down...probably still much larger than the AAC contract

the last 3 paragraphs have nothing to do with the point, texas makes the most money in college football, offcourse they have options (no one is denying that), they can join ANY conference or go indy, not sure what tat had to do with anything...but currently they enjoy controlling the big 12...something that wnt have in other conferences

The last three paragraphs had to do with what occurred when Missouri left. That's when Texas had the study hastily done. Fox stepped in and wanted the conference to expand. The compromise was the 10 teams and Texas would stay. That's why I mentioned it. As far as knowledge of contracts, I'm not in the business of writing contracts. I was however, in the business of verifying their validity. With that said, my assertions are correct. perhaps they may not be the outcome but, what would be bantered about the table is there and relevant.

Just so you're tracking; once the current Big 12 contract was devalued by teams leaving, Fox could terminate the contract. Why? Fox could buy the American for less money and gobble up the teams left over from the Big 12 at less cost then trying to agree on a lesser contract with the remaining Big 12 teams and then keeping that price high enough to attract teams from the American Conference. It's just good business.

Sorry, had to take a call.

I kinda hope we get TCU and Baylor in, so adding SMU and Tulsa into that mix, you get the private school southern holy wars.

(05-06-2015 12:04 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Looking ten years into the future, don't you think a scenario arises where the current makeup of the AAC could be in a stronger position than the remaining, leftover Big12 teams? Especially considering that exactly half of those remaining teams are recent additions?

we'd need a better bowl line up(4-5 p5 yearly), better tv deal (8mil per+)and a somewhat realistic chance at the playoffs..buts its possible

but we have ways to go till we get there

(05-06-2015 12:11 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 12:04 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Looking ten years into the future, don't you think a scenario arises where the current makeup of the AAC could be in a stronger position than the remaining, leftover Big12 teams? Especially considering that exactly half of those remaining teams are recent additions?

we'd need a better bowl line up(4-5 p5 yearly), better tv deal (8mil pet+)and a somewhat realistic chance at the playoffs..buts its possible

but we have ways to go till we get there

Fortunately for us, time is exactly what we have. I don't think any of this transpires until the current contracts begin to expire in the mid 2020's

(05-06-2015 12:03 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:56 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:46 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:43 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:28 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Right. They will either need a new contract of the current contract will be renegotiated downward. The best of the rest they would assemble will still garner far more than our tiny very under valued deal.

Let's be realistic, ESPN/CBS/NBC/TNT will NOT be interested in such small tiny zero markets if UT and Oklahoma left.

Sorry, I don't see it so I won't buy it.

becaecause they won't be interested in baylor or tcu, who are top 5 teams to make the playoffs, kansas a national power in basketball

The moment UT and Oklahoma leave everyone will laugh, trash talk how weak the Big1/2 has become, so any accomplishments any of the above progras had will not be seeing ever again and no more 3, 4, 5 star recruits either.

Milking those two cows will be a thing of the past for them.

Can we trademark the Big1/2?

Might as well

(05-06-2015 11:48 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:30 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:24 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:22 AM)pesik Wrote:  ive said it before ill say it again, the big 12 can have 2 or 3 member left, they will still pick us apart becuase they have contracts that donrt expire for a couple decades....

they pick us apart we dont pick them apart...

Wrong, if they lose certain members then their contract is void. OU and Texas are paramount to their contract. Believe it.

you are worng.....thoise contact still stay in tact...the AAC hasd contracts with what happens when certain teams leave...but NONE of the big 12 contracts have clauses like that...

im certain the contacts will try to be renogiated and/or sued to reduce the amount or potentially void it....but their is no clauses that would automatically void it..stop making things up

the big east contracts on everything ran its course even when everyone left, becuase they didnt have clauses for what happens when teams leaves, our new contracts do becuaseit was a legitimate threat, but im certain the big 12 contacts dont....

my point being im sure certain things will be lost but plenty will remain probably larger than what the current AAC has

You don't know everything, stop acting like you do. The simple fact is that the Big 12's current contract is set for 10 members. If Texas were to decide to leave, OU would be right behind them. Fox would jump to void that contract. When the Lawyers came calling (And they would), Fox could show due cause and point the finger at OU and Texas. OU would just point to Texas and state that once they departed, OU had no reason to stay. Texas does not want to deal with that scenario or the Political backlash that would come from abandoning Texas tech, Baylor and TCU.

Here's a fun fact. Texas has done a viability study on Independence. They can go independent ala Notre Dame and maintain their current earnings level. This would be accomplished by a number of things such as 8-10 Home Games a year. Yes they are one of the rare schools able to get a 1-off. Meaning they get a one time game at their house for no return game.

Their problems were the LHN and the Big 12. I don't know what options they have or may look into for those two issues. Maybe they will do a partial membership with multiple conferences to obtain access to the NY6 Bowls and keep ESPN supporting the LHN, who knows. They have obviously decided to stay in the Big 12 for the remainder of this current contract.

Texas has options. OU has options and it is a common perception that Kansas has options. None of the rest have serious options available to them.

Virtually all conference media contracts have conference composition clauses. Given the recent turmoil in the Big12 composition, its virtually a certainty that they have such a clause in their contract (which is why the GOR increased their value). Our conference composition clause is particularly harsh (our contract can be outright voided). Most simply allow for renegotiation of the existing terms if there is a change in membership.

(05-06-2015 11:42 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  So what if the following scenario occurs:

-PAC12 becomes PAC16 with Texas, OU, TTech, OK State
-B1G picks up Mizzou and Kansas
-SEC back fills with K State

That leaves WVU, Iowa State, Baylor and TCU. SEC could pick up WVU. Maybe. ACC has turned them down time and again, so I don't think that would happen. Would 3 members left, the only original one being Iowa State be enough to reform the conference around? I imagine the MWC would take Iowa State and make a crack at TCU and/or Baylor again.

In 10 years when this all happens, and Big 12 contracts are expiring left and right, wouldn't it make more sense to join a more established conference rather than reform around the shell of 4 transient programs? Who's to say that any exit fees would be given to new members?

Would we try to take all 4? WVU, Iowa State, TCU, Baylor? What could the then 12 year old American conference be able to negotiate?

We did it with three original members. Why can't they?

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

Untrue. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

Unfortunately, if the AAC doesn't get a better number for its TV rights, I could see a team or two get kicked out A'la Temple to increase (Minimally, i'd assume) the payouts to the teams that actually pull the weight within the conference. Navy stays, another leaves (Keep at 10 until it's financially feasible to have 12, with better TV markets).

(05-06-2015 11:13 AM)USFRamenu Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 10:51 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  The American shouldn't add anyone after Navy.

Not BYU, Not Army, Not Air Force, no basketball only adds, noone.

I just remembered that there is a ticking time bomb of realignment and that time bomb is the Big 12.

What happens when Texas and Oklahoma inevitably leave when the LHN and GOR expire? We all know it's going to happen. They can go Independent, or join the PAC and they will be highly successful. Kansas will probably either join the SEC or B1G. TTech and OK State would likely go wherever UT-Austin and OU go, but what happens to those left behind?

The American needs to have open spots and the stability to potentially add programs looking for a home in WVU, TCU, K State, etc.

A 2027 league that still holds all the current programs, and is well established in the college athletics world that add members in the Northeast (Near Philly and Cinci) and another Dallas member would be a landslide victory.

But even if that doesn't happen, we shouldn't expand unless there is a clearly advantageous reason, and quite frankly, there is no reason to expand at all.

Vote no on expansion!

If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW. We wont be adding anyone. They will define their peers. Not us. Keep in mind, there will be a huge basket of exit fee income and NCAA credits sitting in the Big-12 shell. It would not be financially prudent for any remaining members to walk away from that basket of goodies to join the nearest G5 conference. They, like the Big East left overs, will offer just enough to entice the best non-power schools to leave their current G5's and join them in a new Big-12. This is where BYU will end up.

So, I would make the moves necessary to make the AAC the best home it can be now. The AAC future is unknown, but it is likely not destined to become a power conference---so may as well make it the best it can be NOW.

Sorry to rain on your theory, If the best schools are picked off from the Big 12, then they will have no footing for a new contract of any worth. History stands on my side, See BE Circa 2013.

Which conference would you rather be in:

A gutted Big12 of Kansas State, Iowa State, West Virginia, Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech ....plus additions of BYU, Boise, AFA, and Houston, Cincy, UConn, Navy, ECU, UCF and USF....plus you get to keep the Big12 name and at least some of their bowl games and contracts

OR

The same Big12 schools added to Houston, SMU, Memphis, Cincy, ECU, UConn, UCF, Navy, Temple, Tulane and Tulsa.

(05-06-2015 11:53 AM)pesik Wrote:  Kruciff...those 4 will pick apart us with ease.....
they will pick us apart, take byu, boise maybe SDSU and take and choose of the AAC as they like

That's not grounded in reality. Way back when... When Baylor was still suing Texas A&M, and Texas/OU were flirting with the Pac 10, the remnants were NOT talking about rebuilding the Big 12. They were talking about joining the Big East. The value simply isn't left among those 4 to overtake an existing conference with comparable brands. The SEC will void their contract bowl and the league will dissolve. It will be the SWC all over again.

(05-06-2015 12:54 PM)BoKnows Wrote:  

(05-06-2015 11:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the Big-12 is gutted, any remaining schools in the Big-12 will be rebuilding their conference with the best available schools from the AAC and MW.

Untrue. The Big 12 would cease to exist. They lose their infrastructure the minute Texas, OU, etc, leave. The Champions Bowl with the SEC is finito. The TV contract is gone. The remnants would be scrambling just like the remnants of the SWC were.
Because, outside of Texas and OU, the properties of Baylor, TCU, etc, are no more valuable than Houston, SMU, and UCONN.

swc was before the time of the importance of tv contracts and there was barely any bowls to salvage and being indy was legitimate option..
and the swc technically disband but it really merged all its value/few bowls with the big 8

the big 12 even with 2 or 3 members would almost certainly still exist and take apart any g5, theyd partner with the tv people for renegotiaiton and work with them to pick and choose who they like from the rest of the g5..

the top end bowls are most likely gone but theyd likely be able to slavage some of the lower bowls aswell

everyone is forgetting the big east with almost nothing a subpar tv deal, only 3 p5 bowls (at the time), 5 full member teams (all former c-usa or teams only in the fbs for a dacede)..took apart c-usa/mwc with ease..mwc had to give it a special deal just ot stay together

tcu, balyor, iowastate (which is a basketball workhorse)and wvu....will pick up byu, boise and take the top aac teams it chooses to get back to 10 or 12....and will call it a day