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[split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Dr. K's Mid-year Update
Quad time.
04-24-2015 09:49 AM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #102
[split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Quad time.

It was quad time 3 days and 10+ pages ago. But I hope the mods split the thread before moving, as I'm tired of getting e-mail notifications for a religious debate in which I have no interest in reading or participating in.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2015 09:51 AM by waltgreenberg.)
04-24-2015 09:50 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Quad time.

The Quad is the death of all random musings on this board.

Not denying that this should have been moved to a new thread long ago, but once things move to the quad, the responses almost always completely drop off a cliff.
04-24-2015 09:52 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Quad time.

The Quad is the death of all random musings on this board.

Not denying that this should have been moved to a new thread long ago, but once things move to the quad, the responses almost always completely drop off a cliff.

What does that tell us? That they are not moved fast enough? The discussion is almost done by the time it is moved? I for one have no trouble clicking on the Quad and saying my piece.

I have stuff to add, a question to ask, but will refrain unless it is moved. I don't want to contribute further to this little witch hunt until it is moved to the proper forum for debate on witches.

Still don't want Liberty. Not too happy with the other candidates either.

JMHO
04-24-2015 10:04 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Quad time.

The Quad is the death of all random musings on this board.

Not denying that this should have been moved to a new thread long ago, but once things move to the quad, the responses almost always completely drop off a cliff.

Agree with this. For the most part, debates on this board are civil and articulate, even if all parties disagree completely. I, personally, enjoy reading these discussions.
04-24-2015 10:10 AM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 10:10 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Quad time.

The Quad is the death of all random musings on this board.

Not denying that this should have been moved to a new thread long ago, but once things move to the quad, the responses almost always completely drop off a cliff.

Agree with this. For the most part, debates on this board are civil and articulate, even if all parties disagree completely. I, personally, enjoy reading these discussions.

Then by all means continue them under a separate thread with a more relevant title. Don't sabotage other thread topics that have absolutely nothing to do with the 180 degree turn subject. Those of us who posted on the original thread are sick and tired of getting e-mail notifications for a conversation we have no interest in participating.
04-24-2015 10:16 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 08:54 AM)NYNightOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 08:40 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am a bit flabbergasted that a thread on future plans morphed into a debate on which religions should be excluded from our august presence, and why.

Amen

Nice!
04-24-2015 10:52 AM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #108
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-20-2015 10:32 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  We are an institution of higher learning with an unimpeachable reputation for intellectual inquiry and scholarship. Something like teaching religious explanations without giving equal standing to scientific explanations is fundamentally antithetical to our mission. That's why.

We should never be affiliated with a school like Liberty for any reason.

We were in a conference with UH many times. They aren't antithetical to our mission for religious reasons, but they certainly are antithetical to intellectual inquiry and scholarship
04-24-2015 12:13 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #109
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 12:13 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-20-2015 10:32 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  We are an institution of higher learning with an unimpeachable reputation for intellectual inquiry and scholarship. Something like teaching religious explanations without giving equal standing to scientific explanations is fundamentally antithetical to our mission. That's why.

We should never be affiliated with a school like Liberty for any reason.

We were in a conference with UH many times. They aren't antithetical to our mission for religious reasons, but they certainly are antithetical to intellectual inquiry and scholarship

Well played. But I'm not going down this rabbit hole too!

This is over, as far as I am concerned. This discussion is far too broad and complex even for the Quad. I just hope we don't end up in a conference with Liberty, and I will leave it at that for now.
04-24-2015 12:18 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #110
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 12:18 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  Well played. But I'm not going down this rabbit hole too!

It was entirely tongue-in-cheek

Thanks
04-24-2015 12:43 PM
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Pellet Offline
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Post: #111
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 09:50 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 09:49 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Quad time.

It was quad time 3 days and 10+ pages ago. But I hope the mods split the thread before moving, as I'm tired of getting e-mail notifications for a religious debate in which I have no interest in reading or participating in.

Permission granted to turn off the thread subscription function so that you don't receive unwanted email notifications.
04-26-2015 10:22 AM
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Pellet Offline
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Post: #112
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-24-2015 05:49 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  Anti-intellectualism? Dr Ben Carson's biblical worldview did not stop him from becoming a world renowned neurosurgeon. His faith actually helped lift him out of poverty.

Entire video worth a listen. Especially starting around the 9:20 mark.

https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/v...240834414/

Another broadcast that is worth a listen

Anti-intellectualism from Dr. Carson

If you reject radioactive dating methods (while using the wrong element), you
are anti-intellectual. If you claim mountains of scientific evidence don't exist simply because they conflict with your infantile worldview, you are an anti-intellectual. If you subscribe, against all empirical evidence, that things magically appear, you are an anti-intellectual. Having acquired a skill at a particular trade does not change that.
04-26-2015 10:30 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #113
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-26-2015 10:30 AM)Pellet Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 05:49 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  Anti-intellectualism? Dr Ben Carson's biblical worldview did not stop him from becoming a world renowned neurosurgeon. His faith actually helped lift him out of poverty.

Entire video worth a listen. Especially starting around the 9:20 mark.

https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/v...240834414/

Another broadcast that is worth a listen

Anti-intellectualism from Dr. Carson

If you reject radioactive dating methods (while using the wrong element), you
are anti-intellectual. If you claim mountains of scientific evidence don't exist simply because they conflict with your infantile worldview, you are an anti-intellectual. If you subscribe, against all empirical evidence, that things magically appear, you are an anti-intellectual. Having acquired a skill at a particular trade does not change that.


if he subscribed to the power of buffalo dust scatted by wood sprites, that would make him anti-intellectual.

so if there is a 6'6", 315 valedictorian DT who runs a 4.5 and belongs to an evengelical church, do we pass on him? would he be a good representative of Rice? suppose he wamts to preach his faith to the world amd wants to major in religion and polySci.
04-26-2015 01:47 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #114
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-26-2015 01:47 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 10:30 AM)Pellet Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 05:49 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  Anti-intellectualism? Dr Ben Carson's biblical worldview did not stop him from becoming a world renowned neurosurgeon. His faith actually helped lift him out of poverty.

Entire video worth a listen. Especially starting around the 9:20 mark.

https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/v...240834414/

Another broadcast that is worth a listen

Anti-intellectualism from Dr. Carson

If you reject radioactive dating methods (while using the wrong element), you
are anti-intellectual. If you claim mountains of scientific evidence don't exist simply because they conflict with your infantile worldview, you are an anti-intellectual. If you subscribe, against all empirical evidence, that things magically appear, you are an anti-intellectual. Having acquired a skill at a particular trade does not change that.


if he subscribed to the power of buffalo dust scatted by wood sprites, that would make him anti-intellectual.

so if there is a 6'6", 315 valedictorian DT who runs a 4.5 and belongs to an evengelical church, do we pass on him? would he be a good representative of Rice? suppose he wamts to preach his faith to the world amd wants to major in religion and polySci.

I don't think anyone was ever saying that we shouldn't recruit players because of their religious beliefs.

But we wouldn't go and hire a biology professor who taught these things.
04-26-2015 01:50 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #115
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
I don't think that playing Liberty in football means that we should have to hire a biology professor who teaches any particular thing. I fail to see a material relationship between the two.
04-26-2015 05:05 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #116
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-26-2015 01:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 01:47 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 10:30 AM)Pellet Wrote:  
(04-24-2015 05:49 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  Anti-intellectualism? Dr Ben Carson's biblical worldview did not stop him from becoming a world renowned neurosurgeon. His faith actually helped lift him out of poverty.

Entire video worth a listen. Especially starting around the 9:20 mark.

https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/v...240834414/

Another broadcast that is worth a listen

Anti-intellectualism from Dr. Carson

If you reject radioactive dating methods (while using the wrong element), you
are anti-intellectual. If you claim mountains of scientific evidence don't exist simply because they conflict with your infantile worldview, you are an anti-intellectual. If you subscribe, against all empirical evidence, that things magically appear, you are an anti-intellectual. Having acquired a skill at a particular trade does not change that.


if he subscribed to the power of buffalo dust scatted by wood sprites, that would make him anti-intellectual.

so if there is a 6'6", 315 valedictorian DT who runs a 4.5 and belongs to an evengelical church, do we pass on him? would he be a good representative of Rice? suppose he wamts to preach his faith to the world amd wants to major in religion and polySci.

I don't think anyone was ever saying that we shouldn't recruit players because of their religious beliefs.

But we wouldn't go and hire a biology professor who taught these things.

So one of our football players saying the world was created 6000 years ago is OK, but a football opponent saying it is a problem?

Sorry, my attitude is to line up and beat the heck out of whoever is across from us and not to worry about their life styles, philosophies, or politics. It's football.

Now you're right, I wouldn't want Rice to hire a biology professor who believed that, but I sure wouldn't mind our guys debating one.
04-26-2015 07:19 PM
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Pellet Offline
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Post: #117
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-26-2015 01:47 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  if he subscribed to the power of buffalo dust scatted by wood sprites, that would make him anti-intellectual.

So buffalo dust and wood sprites is anti-intellectual, but bread products turning into a corpse on a routine basis is somehow intellectually acceptable? What about the world being mounted on the back of two huge elephants? Is marital rape really rape since Christian and Muslim fundamentalists will tell you otherwise?

Your religion may tell you that 2+2=5, but if you try to use that as justification in the real world, you're still math ignorant.

Quote:so if there is a 6'6", 315 valedictorian DT who runs a 4.5 and belongs to an evengelical church, do we pass on him? would he be a good representative of Rice? suppose he wamts to preach his faith to the world amd wants to major in religion and polySci.

Again, there are certain trades you can have while still holding anti-intellectual views; going academ would certainly be a good match.
04-26-2015 07:41 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #118
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-26-2015 07:41 PM)Pellet Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 01:47 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  if he subscribed to the power of buffalo dust scatted by wood sprites, that would make him anti-intellectual.

So buffalo dust and wood sprites is anti-intellectual, but bread products turning into a corpse on a routine basis is somehow intellectually acceptable? What about the world being mounted on the back of two huge elephants? Is marital rape really rape since Christian and Muslim fundamentalists will tell you otherwise?

Your religion may tell you that 2+2=5, but if you try to use that as justification in the real world, you're still math ignorant.

Sounds like you would be against playing anybody but Atheist U. All religions have beliefs in things that cannot be proven in a lab - that is kind of the definition of religion. I merely find that them conforming to MY beliefs to not be a requirement to play football. I am not advocating the filling od Religion department slots with their grads.

I guess we will never see a Norte Dame - BYU bowl game if this kind of prejudice keeps on growing.
04-26-2015 07:51 PM
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JOwl Offline
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Post: #119
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-23-2015 12:55 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  From my experience in actually taking several religious studies classes at Rice, I can say say that what goes on is education. Isn't that the purpose of any institution of higher learning?

The two such classes I remember best were 1) a overview of religions of the modern world - my first exposure to many religions including Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and others - I didn't agree with everything I heard, but certainly had a better understanding than going in, i.e., I learned; and 2) history of the synoptic gospels, one of my favorite non-major courses at Rice, primarily because it was so well taught (thank-you Dr. Kelber).

I don't have a clue how my experience relate to Liberty's "tentpoles" and could care less. All I know is I won't condemn them or belittle them for what they believe, as Liberty University has never done anything to hurt me or mine and no one is forced to attend.

I'm completely on board with your first two paragraphs here. In particular, I couldn't agree more with education being the purpose of an institution of higher learning. Where you lose me is in your late claim that you couldn't care less about how religious studies classes relate Liberty's tentpole class, CRST 290. This is inconsistent with your sarcastic suggestion that "we should shut down all religious studies classes as well" after being presented with the clear and specific concerns about Liberty. To recap what I detailed in a post upthread:

Liberty makes CRST 290 mandatory for all students. The class's syllabus-stated mission is "presenting the evidence and arguments for creation and against evolution" in order to "help students develop a clear and consistent Biblical creationist worldview and defend it".

For you to conflate the concerns about this fundamentally anti-science, anti-intellectual crusade at Liberty's core with the clearly valuable education you received in the religious studies classes you took, well... I don't get it.

(04-23-2015 12:55 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  As far as the others you mentioned and the extent of my tolerance, I never heard of them, but as far as I'm concerned, they are free to teach whatever they want. If someone wants to pay to learn about whatever they teach, why should I care. No one is forcing me or you to attend those schools or believe as they do.

First off, I need to clarify -- yes, I screwed this one up, and my thanks to Frizzy for correcting my error. I meant to reference Kepler College of Astrological Arts and Sciences. My intent was to use it as an absurd extreme in my analogy, but the way I wrote it ("Astrophysical") it doesn't sound bad at all. Hopefully the "College of Metaphysical Studies" was enough that my message was able to pass, but in case it didn't:
The idea was to hold up two obviously extreme examples of "places of higher learning" that make a mockery of the idea of legitimate scientific inquiry and education. Thus leading to the question (rephrased): Would you be cool with your alma mater (and its strong academic reputation) competing as an equal with those two bad jokes? Bearing in mind that the arena of competition (NCAA sports) is the one that many here see as the most valuable branding opportunity available to Rice University. Would you really want Rice's halo of legitimacy to grant respectability to frauds like that, and/or want those two frauds to tarnish Rice?

I certainly don't.

But anyway, I don't believe you answered my question on this point. You said that you don't have a problem with them teaching what they teach, but the crux of my question went unaddressed. Would you want Rice to participate in an athletic conference with them? [And purely for the sake of discussion, let's say they're athletically as accomplished as, say, Boston College. Just picked that one out of a hat, really.]

(04-23-2015 12:55 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  BTW - Just to put things in perspective, I graduated from Rice with a BS in Chemical Engineering and have been in industry for 38 years, so I'm definitely not anti-science. I'm also not into putting down those who think differently than I do. I don't have to agree with them, but I will defend their right to believe as they choose as long as their beliefs are not causing physical harm to others

I like it. But to try my analogy again in a different arena: As an engineer, how would you feel about being invited to keynote on some area of your expertise, only to find out that the other speakers were going to be, say, an unrepentant Stanley Pons (cold fusion guy) and a nondeceased Stan Meyers (guy who claimed to build engines that used water as their ultimate energy source). Is that something you'd want yourself and your professional reputation associated with?

(04-23-2015 12:55 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  (I'm not talking hurt feelings or sensibilities. Grow a pair or put on your big girl panties and get over it.)

Now I can't tell what straw man you're impaling here with the manly talk about not caring about hurt feelings, but I'm pretty sure that the "Grow a pair..." is directed at some hypothetical other whose feelings got hurt, and not at me. Let me know if I've got that wrong.
04-26-2015 10:58 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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Post: #120
RE: [split] Dr. K's Mid-year Update
(04-26-2015 07:41 PM)Pellet Wrote:  
(04-26-2015 01:47 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  if he subscribed to the power of buffalo dust scatted by wood sprites, that would make him anti-intellectual.

So buffalo dust and wood sprites is anti-intellectual, but bread products turning into a corpse on a routine basis is somehow intellectually acceptable? What about the world being mounted on the back of two huge elephants? Is marital rape really rape since Christian and Muslim fundamentalists will tell you otherwise?

Your religion may tell you that 2+2=5, but if you try to use that as justification in the real world, you're still math ignorant.

Quote:so if there is a 6'6", 315 valedictorian DT who runs a 4.5 and belongs to an evengelical church, do we pass on him? would he be a good representative of Rice? suppose he wamts to preach his faith to the world amd wants to major in religion and polySci.

Again, there are certain trades you can have while still holding anti-intellectual views; going academ would certainly be a good match.

Again, the (to Pellet) bread to body transition is only if you take a quote of Christ's literally instead of symbolically. Thanks to the printing press and translations into German and English became more readily available, Anabaptists in Holland, and Baptists in England were among those who took the text symbolically during the Reformation. Even Luther, who was more concerned with other non-biblical practices and superstitions that had crept into the church, had a hybrid interpretation of the Lord's Supper (consubstantiation versus the transubstantiation you reference).

It may be fun to mock the literal interpretation, but ultimately the practice is not about the interpretation but what the practice is meant to symbolize regardless of the interpretation. You might want to focus on what Christ taught, and work from there. Getting worked up over what ultimately is a minor side point that can reasonably be explained by differences in interpretation isn't productive. I'm not a literalist on this at all, but I grew up Lutheran and can concede that it is at least possible that consubstantiation is accurate, without believing it.
04-26-2015 11:07 PM
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