(02-10-2015 10:55 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 10:46 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 10:42 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  The 2011-12 Texas team returned three players who averaged a combined 14 points from the 2010-11 season. That team brought in five freshman. That team started four frosh and played two key reserves, one of which was a frosh.

Obviously, the 2010-11 Memphis team had no returning back court.

And still the Memphis team brought in a guy who played two full SEC seasons.

And the two redshirts were top 100 players.

And the one freshman signee was a top 100 player.

And Burrell was top 10 JC and supposed to be able to play the 1-4, at least in a pinch, but now we see he can basically play the 3 and that's it.

The lone outlier was that Woodson was not highly rated at JUCO.

Yeah, it's a silly point. Having returning players like King and Iverson, plus getting a two month head start on practice and getting humbled in Canada should have given the staff a better guide as to what was going on.

Instead, Boy Wonder has sent his future PG to the end of the bench and is riding with Kedren.

Remember, too, Shaq was 100% the starter for two straight years, is pre-season All conference and has been yo-yo'ed as a starter-reserve-starter this year.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pookie, Nick and Shaq all look elsewhere at the end of the year.

And lets not forget that he had two of his "newcomers" on campus for an entire year prior to this season.

(02-10-2015 10:55 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  I wouldn't be surprised to see Pookie, Nick and Shaq all look elsewhere at the end of the year.

I'd be surprised if all three are on the roster next year.

I fully expect at least one of those to not be.

(02-10-2015 10:42 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  The 2011-12 Texas team returned three players who averaged a combined 14 points from the 2010-11 season. That team brought in five freshman. That team started four frosh and played two key reserves, one of which was a frosh.

Obviously, the 2010-11 Memphis team had no returning back court.

Quote:The 2011-12 Texas team returned three players who averaged a combined 14 points from the 2010-11 season

Wow, so out of those 14 points, the 3 returning players averaged somewhere around 4.6 points per game each, correct? They were all basically less productive than Antonio Barton when he averaged 5.6 points per game, correct?

I would hate to think that you aren't telling the whole story here. I would be shocked.

(02-10-2015 11:22 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:17 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  He obviously was going all-in on last year being the year with the experience necessary to advance in the tournament. That went bust and we are now paying the price for that gamble.

And the problem with that will be paying the price next year as well - the PG in training Pookie is languishing at the end of the bench.

Unless Kedren shows some sort of dedication in the offseason that he has up until now not shown - either here or really at Vanderbilt.

Agree completely. I will be absolutely shocked if Pookie is here next year as a result.

Not to mention a JR pg transfer from Vandy which those who now make excuses for our backcourt issues were quick to hail this trasnfer as the savior before the season....

Not to mention, he starts over the freshmen pg....

(02-10-2015 11:27 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  And lets not forget that he had two of his "newcomers" on campus for an entire year prior to this season.

(02-10-2015 11:17 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:10 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 10:56 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Cameron Payne

More spackle instead of replacing the drywall.

I was a big fan of Geron and Dixon but when you have Joe, Chris and Antonio why not recruit some high schoolers to learn under them ?

He obviously was going all-in on last year being the year with the experience necessary to advance in the tournament. That went bust and we are now paying the price for that gamble.

Very true. The team should have been better last year. Things were looking pretty good until the late season collapse.

Having said that, the three options were to try and keep Barton, to take on Dixon, or to sign a highly regarded recruit. Not many top 50 players are going to sign with a team that already has JJ, Geron and Crawford.

Pastner make the common sense choice. He already had JJ and Crawford. There is no way you turn down either Geron or Dixon. It just didn't work out.

(02-10-2015 11:36 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 10:42 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  The 2011-12 Texas team returned three players who averaged a combined 14 points from the 2010-11 season. That team brought in five freshman. That team started four frosh and played two key reserves, one of which was a frosh.

Obviously, the 2010-11 Memphis team had no returning back court.

Quote:The 2011-12 Texas team returned three players who averaged a combined 14 points from the 2010-11 season

Wow, so out of those 14 points, the 3 returning players averaged somewhere around 4.6 points per game each, correct? They were all basically less productive than Antonio Barton when he averaged 5.6 points per game, correct?

I would hate to think that you aren't telling the whole story here. I would be shocked.

What I wrote was there were three returning players. They combined to average about 14 ppg the year before. Fact.

Point being, Texas basically brought in six freshman that were supported by three returning players who only carried over 14 points per game from the previous year.

Take it for however YOU want. The big picture is that Texas went to the NCAA's with a majority (true) freshman squad. 5 of top 7 players. Not Juco's, grad transfers or redshirts.

Rage on.

Saw a preview to a Vince Vaughn movie yesterday wherein a goofball stated he lost his virginity.....twice.

I guess thats the same philosophy pro-Pastner fans use when they realize the backcourt consists of a starting junior, a sophmore and Crawford.

(02-10-2015 11:40 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:17 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:10 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 10:56 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  Cameron Payne

More spackle instead of replacing the drywall.

I was a big fan of Geron and Dixon but when you have Joe, Chris and Antonio why not recruit some high schoolers to learn under them ?

He obviously was going all-in on last year being the year with the experience necessary to advance in the tournament. That went bust and we are now paying the price for that gamble.

Very true. The team should have been better last year. Things were looking pretty good until the late season collapse.

Having said that, the three options were to try and keep Barton, to take on Dixon, or to sign a highly regarded recruit. Not many top 50 players are going to sign with a team that already has JJ, Geron and Crawford.

Pastner make the common sense choice. He already had JJ and Crawford. There is no way you turn down either Geron or Dixon. It just didn't work out.

I support getting Geron, but there was certainly a way to turn down Dixon. If you already have an established guard rotation of JJ, Chris and Geron, you have more than enough minutes at the 1-2 (factually you have all 80 minutes among the three) plus some time at the three.

Then you are established at the 4 with Shaq and have a top 30 recruit in Austin, plus Pellom to eat minutes at the 5.

Then you have Iverson, King and Dominic to earn minutes in spot roles.

By bringing in Dixon, you took away (probably) 3-5 minutes a game each from Joe, Chirs and Geron and 5-10 minutes from Kuran and Nick.

If you have 4 senior guards, one would assume you'd have at least one player on the bench ready to step in.

Or better yet, not sign Dixon and get a freshman to learn under the other senior guards.

Inexperience in the backcourt but experience in the front court this year.....flip flopped from last year.

Only one person responsible.

The fact that he thought he needed to add Dixon, a 3rd pg on the roster speaks volumes.

He doesn't know how to build a team.

He just "tries" to get the best talent and make it mesh.

You pick a system and pick the best players that fit that system.

No system, so you get a bunch of players that don't fit.

(02-10-2015 11:52 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  The fact that he thought he needed to add Dixon, a 3rd pg on the roster speaks volumes.

He doesn't know how to build a team.

He just "tries" to get the best talent and make it mesh.

You pick a system and pick the best players that fit that system.

No system, so you get a bunch of players that don't fit.

Signed,

Dom Woodson
Dom Magee
Kuran Iverson

(02-10-2015 12:28 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:52 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  The fact that he thought he needed to add Dixon, a 3rd pg on the roster speaks volumes.

He doesn't know how to build a team.

He just "tries" to get the best talent and make it mesh.

You pick a system and pick the best players that fit that system.

No system, so you get a bunch of players that don't fit.

Signed,

Dom Woodson
Dom Magee
Kuran Iverson

On deck:

Pookie
Nick King

(02-10-2015 12:32 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 12:28 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:52 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  The fact that he thought he needed to add Dixon, a 3rd pg on the roster speaks volumes.

He doesn't know how to build a team.

He just "tries" to get the best talent and make it mesh.

You pick a system and pick the best players that fit that system.

No system, so you get a bunch of players that don't fit.

Signed,

Dom Woodson
Dom Magee
Kuran Iverson

On deck:

Pookie
Nick King

Hopefully it stops there.

(02-10-2015 08:45 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Agreed...That is tough to overcome...

If you posted this a defense of Pastner cool...But my feeling about Pastner is not based on his win loss record, it is based on watching games and being discouraged with how the team performs in many cases. If you blindly look at his resume it sounds crazy to want Pastner gone...But if you have essentially watched every game over his tenure you understand were the teeth gnashing comes from.

Yes and to a certain extent, our perceptions may be colored by his demeanor and comments which, while many describe as coach speak, others including myself feel that he is talking down to fan base as we are not mature or smart enough to accept the truth sometimes. And despite what others say, Josh is very intelligent and engaging on other topics.

(02-10-2015 11:52 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  The fact that he thought he needed to add Dixon, a 3rd pg on the roster speaks volumes.

He doesn't know how to build a team.

He just "tries" to get the best talent and make it mesh.

You pick a system and pick the best players that fit that system.

No system, so you get a bunch of players that don't fit.

Exact opposite of what many coaches say. Cal, Coach K, Andy Kennedy just to name a few go after best players period. Could have named a lot more.

This thread is interesting. I did wonder last year why we didn't at least get some minutes for a developing guard and was pretty crushed Pookie didn't qualify last year.

I knew this would be a rough year in the backcourt before the year. Many did. The four kings were always going to be at a cost this year, but one that could have been lessened with having some minutes to a 5th guard last year in less high stakes games. I really believe they really wanted Pookie to qualify last year and that did hurt development.

Still, I actually am not of the crowd that will kill Pastner for playing to win today last year. He thought it would work and it did to a degree. I think we just have gotten somewhat unlucky with our guards development this year.

The guard issues contribute to our record, but the issue I have is not technical or skill based. This team still seems to lack a mental toughness and fight I am used to seeing from Memphis teams, even lesser ones. The Omar Sneed teams fought and clawed, they were just a little outmanned. This team actually has some clear talent, but seems to be in the wrong place a lot (missing rotations, running offensive sets that lead to poor shots, etc) and seems to not value the glass enough to really get the ball on 50/50 plays.

The good angels of a Pastner team (ball movement, unselfish play) are still there, but the weaknesses of a Pastner team (interior rebounding, post play) have become amplified this year b/c of a weak backcourt.

I think next year will tell a lot. We get that vet assistant to be his 'brain' (Robic/Tex Winters type), Pastner listens to him while doing the other things he does well, Pookie and the guards develop a little more, and the Lawsons are as good as advertised, we'll be hell on wheels and this year is forgotten.

But, to be fair, that is a LOT of ifs.

Here's hoping. I have haven't given up on Pastner, but we need to fix a few issues. They are fixable, but they need to be addressed quickly.

(02-10-2015 11:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:40 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:17 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:10 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  More spackle instead of replacing the drywall.

I was a big fan of Geron and Dixon but when you have Joe, Chris and Antonio why not recruit some high schoolers to learn under them ?

He obviously was going all-in on last year being the year with the experience necessary to advance in the tournament. That went bust and we are now paying the price for that gamble.

Very true. The team should have been better last year. Things were looking pretty good until the late season collapse.

Having said that, the three options were to try and keep Barton, to take on Dixon, or to sign a highly regarded recruit. Not many top 50 players are going to sign with a team that already has JJ, Geron and Crawford.

Pastner make the common sense choice. He already had JJ and Crawford. There is no way you turn down either Geron or Dixon. It just didn't work out.

I support getting Geron, but there was certainly a way to turn down Dixon. If you already have an established guard rotation of JJ, Chris and Geron, you have more than enough minutes at the 1-2 (factually you have all 80 minutes among the three) plus some time at the three.

Then you are established at the 4 with Shaq and have a top 30 recruit in Austin, plus Pellom to eat minutes at the 5.

Then you have Iverson, King and Dominic to earn minutes in spot roles.

By bringing in Dixon, you took away (probably) 3-5 minutes a game each from Joe, Chirs and Geron and 5-10 minutes from Kuran and Nick.

I can see that side of it. In a perfect world we would have swapped out Dixon for either Josh Davis or Devin Williams. Dixon would have been terrific if we would have been able to press, but that didn't work out very well.

(02-10-2015 11:52 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  The fact that he thought he needed to add Dixon, a 3rd pg on the roster speaks volumes.

He doesn't know how to build a team.

He just "tries" to get the best talent and make it mesh.

You pick a system and pick the best players that fit that system.

No system, so you get a bunch of players that don't fit.

Actually, assuming that you watched the games, you would know that neither JJ nor Crawford are classic point guards in the truest sense.

(02-10-2015 03:16 PM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 11:52 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  The fact that he thought he needed to add Dixon, a 3rd pg on the roster speaks volumes.

He doesn't know how to build a team.

He just "tries" to get the best talent and make it mesh.

You pick a system and pick the best players that fit that system.

No system, so you get a bunch of players that don't fit.

Exact opposite of what many coaches say. Cal, Coach K, Andy Kennedy just to name a few go after best players period. Could have named a lot more.

Well Dixon wasn't the best player out there with Memphis interest either - DeAndre Kane was.