(12-31-2014 06:28 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 01:57 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  How many more times are the Republicans going to try this failed experiment before they give up on it?

Anyone with any knowledge of those with drug problems knows that just telling a drug user to pass a drug test is not going to help them get clean. They need treatment which costs a lot of money. Money they don't have because they're drug users!

Quote:Under the pilot, three counties in Michigan to be determined will administer a suspicion-based screening and testing program to Family Independence Program recipients suspected of drug use. If the screening prompts the Michigan Department of Human Services staff to suspect use of a controlled substance, the applicant or recipient must take a substance abuse test. Refusal to take the test results in ineligibility of benefits for six months.

Gee...I wonder who will be suspected?

I think they might start with the drug users or those with drug history first.

Maybe after that, move on to the people living in gov't housing and driving $50,000+ cars to pick up their welfare checks.

Why stop with welfare recipients? Let's randomly drug test people who use public roads, who get school vouchers, who get financial aid for college, who get a child tax credit, government employees, employees of firms who have government contracts, all medical office personnel who work for practices that get Medicare or Medicaid payments, farmers who get agricultural subsidies, the list is practically endless. Why just welfare recipients?

(12-31-2014 06:44 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Why stop with welfare recipients? Let's randomly drug test people who use public roads, who get school vouchers, who get financial aid for college, who get a child tax credit, government employees, employees of firms who have government contracts, all medical office personnel who work for practices that get Medicare or Medicaid payments, farmers who get agricultural subsidies, the list is practically endless. Why just welfare recipients?

Those in bold are already being tested.

You have to love Libs standing up for drug users that are on the welfare tit.

(12-31-2014 06:55 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:44 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Why stop with welfare recipients? Let's randomly drug test people who use public roads, who get school vouchers, who get financial aid for college, who get a child tax credit, government employees, employees of firms who have government contracts, all medical office personnel who work for practices that get Medicare or Medicaid payments, farmers who get agricultural subsidies, the list is practically endless. Why just welfare recipients?

Those in bold are already being tested.

That's not true. Most government employees don't get tested. The reason is, that it would come out of their budget and they don't make room for it.

(12-31-2014 07:11 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:55 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:44 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Why stop with welfare recipients? Let's randomly drug test people who use public roads, who get school vouchers, who get financial aid for college, who get a child tax credit, government employees, employees of firms who have government contracts, all medical office personnel who work for practices that get Medicare or Medicaid payments, farmers who get agricultural subsidies, the list is practically endless. Why just welfare recipients?

Those in bold are already being tested.

That's not true. Most government employees don't get tested. The reason is, that it would come out of their budget and they don't make room for it.

Umm... ...how come every single job opening that I see at nearly all levels of government includes a clause regarding drug testing?

How come most employees at private firms these days are drug tested?

People who use public roads? Really? LOL.

And actually, I'm all for testing people who get financial aid for college, and that included me. Why should they be given financial aid if they're blowing what little money they do have on drugs when they're given free money to get a freaking education.

I'm not sure the percentage of government employees, but any active duty military are subject to random drug tests and we get them ALL THE TIME. That being said, we have civilian employees that I've NEVER seen being subjected to a drug test. I think they should be, but they don't that I've seen.

(12-31-2014 02:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Unconstitutional

What? Where?

1. Why is it difficult for someone who gets free money which they never have to repay that was taken by force from people who earned it to not want to follow any rules regarding my largesse?

2. Welfare is voluntary. No one is forced to sign up for it and don't give me that crap that for some people it's a life saver because if it was they'd be drug free. Which brings me to...

3. If people can afford to live, pay their bills and take care of all of life's needs and they still have money for drugs then we're either paying them too much or they have income they're not telling us about.

4. If a welfare recipient was refused a job because s/he failed a pre employment drug screen should that person still get welfare?

5. Drugs are unhealthy. We're forced to buy Obamacare or its equivalent in order to remain healthy (at least that's what Obama says) and how does the government do that? Like everything else, when the government wants you to change your behavior or penalize you for something they take your money, they fine you. So why would this line of thought no carry over to getting people off of drugs? Not getting welfare is a monetary penalty for doing something that's illegal, harmful, costly, and will prevent you from taking care of yourself in the future.

6. If welfare drug screening saves the life of just one person then isn't the hardship, the grief, the pain and suffering everyone else has to go through by taking the drug test worth it? Isn't that the liberal mantra, credo, or the bullschit they peddle to us?

7. If we have so many people on welfare because there are no jobs for them, then how will the millions of illegals find work to support themselves? And if there are jobs for welfare recipients then we don't need welfare, do we? they should be taking those open jobs.

8. if you are a welfare drug addict you should be required to report to the police the people who are selling you drugs. It's a crime to sell drugs and they don't pay taxes.

If just one of the above is viable then welfare recipients should be drug tested. Now who can shoot every one of them down?

(12-31-2014 03:07 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Again, we've tried this several times in other states and nowhere has it saved money or shown that welfare recipients have a higher instance of drug use than the general populous...in fact, I think it's always been less.

Wait, hold the phone. Are you telling me that the NFL, NBA, etc are wasting their time drug testing their players and that none of them avoid drugs because of the penalty if they're caught?

(12-31-2014 03:07 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  No way this won't cost more money ....

Are you arguing NOT to expand government?

(12-31-2014 06:33 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:28 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 01:57 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  How many more times are the Republicans going to try this failed experiment before they give up on it?

Anyone with any knowledge of those with drug problems knows that just telling a drug user to pass a drug test is not going to help them get clean. They need treatment which costs a lot of money. Money they don't have because they're drug users!

Quote:Under the pilot, three counties in Michigan to be determined will administer a suspicion-based screening and testing program to Family Independence Program recipients suspected of drug use. If the screening prompts the Michigan Department of Human Services staff to suspect use of a controlled substance, the applicant or recipient must take a substance abuse test. Refusal to take the test results in ineligibility of benefits for six months.

Gee...I wonder who will be suspected?

I think they might start with the drug users or those with drug history first.

Maybe after that, move on to the people living in gov't housing and driving $50,000+ cars to pick up their welfare checks.

I've always heard that or similar over the top statements but I've yet to see a real life example of it. That is not to say that there isn't falsifying of applications going on. There certainly is abuse anytime $$$ is involved. It is just that if someone is smart enough to run the con I sincerely doubt they are dumb enough to drive their BMW to the office to pick up the check.

(12-31-2014 03:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I really don't understand what this legislation is supposed to accomplish.
What happens to a welfare recipient who flunks his/her drug test? Do they get cut off? Where do they go from there?

Yep..."sound and fury...signifying nothing".

(12-31-2014 03:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I really don't understand what this legislation is supposed to accomplish.
What happens to a welfare recipient who flunks his/her drug test? Do they get cut off? Where do they go from there?

only two options....it's definitely not they all the sudden become upstanding, well respected tax paying, god fearing, legally obligated citizens....

I'm certain you understand the two options w/o me defining....

(12-31-2014 09:34 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:33 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:28 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 01:57 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  How many more times are the Republicans going to try this failed experiment before they give up on it?

Anyone with any knowledge of those with drug problems knows that just telling a drug user to pass a drug test is not going to help them get clean. They need treatment which costs a lot of money. Money they don't have because they're drug users!

Quote:Under the pilot, three counties in Michigan to be determined will administer a suspicion-based screening and testing program to Family Independence Program recipients suspected of drug use. If the screening prompts the Michigan Department of Human Services staff to suspect use of a controlled substance, the applicant or recipient must take a substance abuse test. Refusal to take the test results in ineligibility of benefits for six months.

Gee...I wonder who will be suspected?

I think they might start with the drug users or those with drug history first.

Maybe after that, move on to the people living in gov't housing and driving $50,000+ cars to pick up their welfare checks.

I've always heard that or similar over the top statements but I've yet to see a real life example of it. That is not to say that there isn't falsifying of applications going on. There certainly is abuse anytime $$$ is involved. It is just that if someone is smart enough to run the con I sincerely doubt they are dumb enough to drive their BMW to the office to pick up the check.

I paid for all my drug use. Then I stopped. Really, really, really don't want to pay for someone else's. Do 'em on your own damn dime.

This attempt will fail as well. As such it is with govt, common sense is often overruled.

(12-31-2014 11:02 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 09:34 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:33 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 06:28 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-31-2014 01:57 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  How many more times are the Republicans going to try this failed experiment before they give up on it?

Anyone with any knowledge of those with drug problems knows that just telling a drug user to pass a drug test is not going to help them get clean. They need treatment which costs a lot of money. Money they don't have because they're drug users!


Gee...I wonder who will be suspected?

I think they might start with the drug users or those with drug history first.

Maybe after that, move on to the people living in gov't housing and driving $50,000+ cars to pick up their welfare checks.

I've always heard that or similar over the top statements but I've yet to see a real life example of it. That is not to say that there isn't falsifying of applications going on. There certainly is abuse anytime $$$ is involved. It is just that if someone is smart enough to run the con I sincerely doubt they are dumb enough to drive their BMW to the office to pick up the check.

I hope he got busted for that.

(01-02-2015 08:36 AM)VA49er Wrote:  This attempt will fail as well. As such it is with govt, common sense is often overruled.

I think common sense is not to enact a piece of legislation that is DOA because it is proven to be ineffective, controversial, and have its constitutionality challenged.

(12-31-2014 03:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I really don't understand what this legislation is supposed to accomplish.
What happens to a welfare recipient who flunks his/her drug test? Do they get cut off? Where do they go from there?

The wisdom/efficacy of these laws may be debated, and I think you raise some valid points. But -- OTOH -- the constitutional validity of these laws cannot be seriously disputed.