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For a game that allows only one ball and 5 players playing at a time...when ODU doesn't have 99 incoming players, it really seems to fan the flames...
I don't get the anger and vinegar...we have a coaching staff that has a plan, whether at your pace or not, to maximize its resources (schollys) in the manner they want. The absurd venom that is spouted about the 14th or 15th man, especially when 100s of transfers are available each year is unwarranted. If ODU had used every scholly and the players never left the bench would 244 pages of commentary be dedicated to that?
Recruiting is different today than even 5 years ago, transfers and high quality JUCO kids are readily available, the old adage that transfers are just someone else's problems in a new uniform is moot.
I've personally heard a multiple NCAA champion coach say on several occasions that the dumbest part of college MBB was the oversized rosters, and I for one fully agree (for both men and women basketball, Title IX and entitlement issues aside).

This thread like most of our recruitment threads bears a ugly resemblance to the JMU conference rumor threads..."blankedly blank coach/admin/school doesn't see things my way so I will sully the world with my venom".

the recruiting woes for our school go way back to the blaine era. he couldn't land the high rated recruits so he stopped trying and just brought in projects. some that worked out very well and some that didn't. now we have a coach that is trying to get them and we aren't landing them. so we're filling our scholarships with transfers and Juco's and I guess we'll see how it goes.

Except we're not filling scholarships, in spite of obvious needs.

(05-25-2016 04:34 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  For a game that allows only one ball and 5 players playing at a time...when ODU doesn't have 99 incoming players, it really seems to fan the flames...
I don't get the anger and vinegar...we have a coaching staff that has a plan, whether at your pace or not, to maximize its resources (schollys) in the manner they want. The absurd venom that is spouted about the 14th or 15th man, especially when 100s of transfers are available each year is unwarranted. If ODU had used every scholly and the players never left the bench would 244 pages of commentary be dedicated to that?
Recruiting is different today than even 5 years ago, transfers and high quality JUCO kids are readily available, the old adage that transfers are just someone else's problems in a new uniform is moot.
I've personally heard a multiple NCAA champion coach say on several occasions that the dumbest part of college MBB was the oversized rosters, and I for one fully agree (for both men and women basketball, Title IX and entitlement issues aside).

This thread like most of our recruitment threads bears a ugly resemblance to the JMU conference rumor threads..."blankedly blank coach/admin/school doesn't see things my way so I will sully the world with my venom".

Depth is important and wins championships. If we didnt have to rely on Trey quite so much in games one and two of the tournament we probably would have gone to the NCAAs. He was obviously spent by game 3. Having empty roster spots means you don't have the depth. Its on the coaches to balance the rosters and fill them with high caliber players at the right positions each season. If every team had only 10 players that would be fine, but why put yourself at a disadvantage?

Not sure depth will be a problem this year, except at the point.

Frontcourt this year: Stith, Taylor, Kah, Trey Porter, Talley, Carver, Vassor
Backcourt this year: Baker, Caver, Stith, Green, Fields, Haynes, Maurus

That's 14 players, with a pretty clearly defined end of bench, barring some miracle

(05-25-2016 04:34 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  For a game that allows only one ball and 5 players playing at a time...when ODU doesn't have 99 incoming players, it really seems to fan the flames...
I don't get the anger and vinegar...we have a coaching staff that has a plan, whether at your pace or not, to maximize its resources (schollys) in the manner they want. The absurd venom that is spouted about the 14th or 15th man, especially when 100s of transfers are available each year is unwarranted. If ODU had used every scholly and the players never left the bench would 244 pages of commentary be dedicated to that?
Recruiting is different today than even 5 years ago, transfers and high quality JUCO kids are readily available, the old adage that transfers are just someone else's problems in a new uniform is moot.
I've personally heard a multiple NCAA champion coach say on several occasions that the dumbest part of college MBB was the oversized rosters, and I for one fully agree (for both men and women basketball, Title IX and entitlement issues aside).

This thread like most of our recruitment threads bears a ugly resemblance to the JMU conference rumor threads..."blankedly blank coach/admin/school doesn't see things my way so I will sully the world with my venom".

OK.....Congratulations!!!!!You are a real fan of ODU and you show that you understand what is really happening. You got it right. Now let's get it done this year and NCAA Tournament here we come!!!!!

(05-25-2016 06:57 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Not sure depth will be a problem this year, except at the point.

Frontcourt this year: Stith, Taylor, Kah, Trey Porter, Talley, Carver, Vassor
Backcourt this year: Baker, Caver, Stith, Green, Fields, Haynes, Maurus

That's 14 players, with a pretty clearly defined end of bench, barring some miracle

I don't think depth will be much of an issue this year either. Maybe at point, but that should be it. The issue is you recruit for two years ahead. We are not building for the 2018 season as well as we could be by not filling these spots, trying some guys out and getting them playing time and practice so they can step up in two years.

We have at least 2 players on this roster that have skills we haven't had before. Kah is a stretch 4 that can shoot the rock inside and out. Haynes is a big strong 6-4 PG that can take the ball down hill and finish. I am OK that we are carrying 2 over into 2017. We have plenty of depth and if BJ can be somewhat consistent from 3 we will have no problem with scoring this year.

(05-25-2016 07:36 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(05-25-2016 06:57 PM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Not sure depth will be a problem this year, except at the point.

Frontcourt this year: Stith, Taylor, Kah, Trey Porter, Talley, Carver, Vassor
Backcourt this year: Baker, Caver, Stith, Green, Fields, Haynes, Maurus

That's 14 players, with a pretty clearly defined end of bench, barring some miracle

I don't think depth will be much of an issue this year either. Maybe at point, but that should be it. The issue is you recruit for two years ahead. We are not building for the 2018 season as well as we could be by not filling these spots, trying some guys out and getting them playing time and practice so they can step up in two years.

We are an injury or dismissal away from it being a big problem. We also have a lot of question marks.

Out of the 14 players you mention, 6 are newcomers and 3 are walk-ons that won't see minutes outside of garbage time.

The knowns:
Baker - Like him or not, we know what we will get. Strong defense and little offense aside from hitting the occasional 3 (at a mediocre percentage).

Caver - A bit of an unknown. Showed flashes of brilliance with freshman mistakes. Does he develop out of the mistakes and become the field general we need him to be?

Brandan Stith - Best known asset. Major asset on defense and made great strides on offense. Only downside is foul trouble.

Talley - Flashes of brilliance, with some Houdini mixed in.

Taylor - Good defense, little offense

The unknowns:
Kah - How will he pan out?
Porter - How will he pan out?
Carver - How will he pan out?
Vassor - Walk-on practice player.
BJ Stith - Is he good enough to compensate for Freeman and/or Bacote?
Green - Is he ready for significant minutes? Will he redshirt?
Fields - Walk-on practice player.
Haynes - How will he pan out?
Maurus - Walk-on practice player.

So yes, potentially the team could be very good if Kah, Porter, Carver, and Haynes pan out, Green is ready to play, Caver develops, Talley keeps getting better, Brandan Stith can stay healthy and manage fouls, and BJ Stith is good enough to take over games, and the chemistry is there. Based on past history, however, some of these newcomers aren't going to pan out and I'll bet my left nut that half of them smoke weed and we know Jones won't look the other way on that so we will always be vulnerable to suspensions and dismissals. We'll see. I do have optimism, but with all the unknowns and little margin of error, I frankly could see anywhere from 10 to 25 regular season wins. It just depends. With 11 scholarship athletes (I'm counting the Stiths), basically 2 deep at every position, we can't really afford to have anyone not pan out.

Taylor showed us a little offense during the CUSA and Vegas Tourney's. Hopefully, he'll continue to develop that aspect of his game.

Perimeter scoring is the bug question mark.

(05-26-2016 07:53 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Taylor showed us a little offense during the CUSA and Vegas Tourney's. Hopefully, he'll continue to develop that aspect of his game.

Perimeter scoring is the bug question mark.

Perimeter scoring, interior depth, PG game management, FT shooting, chemistry, leadership... everything is a big question mark.

Sounds like we had a lot of turnover and basically have new team. I'm excited to see how it goes.

(05-26-2016 07:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 07:53 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Taylor showed us a little offense during the CUSA and Vegas Tourney's. Hopefully, he'll continue to develop that aspect of his game.

Perimeter scoring is the bug question mark.

Perimeter scoring, interior depth, PG game management, FT shooting, chemistry, leadership... everything is a big question mark.

you have a lot of good points and I'm definitely going into the season with nothing more than cautious optimism, but I don't agree that everything is a BIG question mark. from this time last off season through the beginning of the season about as many things went wrong that could have and we were still 2 points away from making the NCAA tourney.

I understand there are questions, but not everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

(05-26-2016 07:46 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The unknowns:
Kah - How will he pan out?
Porter - How will he pan out?
Carver - How will he pan out?
Vassor - Walk-on practice player.
BJ Stith - Is he good enough to compensate for Freeman and/or Bacote?
Green - Is he ready for significant minutes? Will he redshirt?
Fields - Walk-on practice player.
Haynes - How will he pan out?
Maurus - Walk-on practice player.

Kah sounds good so far in open gym

Porter sounds like a bigger Taylor

Carver still a wildcard

Vassor maybe best walk on I remember at ODU elite athlete

BJ Stith hopefully is comfortable around dad and big bro and plays great

Green sounds like one of the best recruits ODUs gotten in a while

Fields is definitely not your average walk on, definitely not a "practice player" will be on scholarship at some point

Haynes was a heck of a high schooler gives ODU more size and athleticism on the perimeter

Maurus who knows


You guys keep talking about ODU relying on walk ons, but these aren't your normal walk ons, and the ONLY reason there are open scholarships is because ODU is lucky enough to have more flexibility than most teams in that department with the Stiths etc. Also isn't 2017 a deep year recruiting wise? I wouldn't be too upset carrying an extra scholarship or two into 2017 since somehow ODU has 2-3 scholarship players not on scholly.

I just laugh at some of these comments, but everyone has an opinion.

In their classification:
Green- Virginia Player of the Year
Porter- Virginia Player of the Year
Hayes- Virginia Player of the Year
Fields- Multiple time Virginia Player of the Year

This has never happened at ODU. We once had Hodge and Mullen on the same team as two different classification players of the year but never this many.

BJ Stith, before playing for powerhouse Oak Hill (2nd in nation) was a named all state in basketball three times in addition to being all state in track three times and he was the state champ in the 300m Hurdles and 400m relay. Some athlete !

EverydayinVA, that's some optimism and I love it!

We were pretty optimistic last year and we got hit hard by the unknowns - 3 suspensions and a Stith injury.

Assuming everyone stays healthy (big assumption) I think we will be fine. I recall Ed Miller saying BJ Stith has the best shooting stroke on the team, and that was when Freeman was here. I think if BJ lives up to half of the ACC hype he has, he will be the solid perimeter contributor.

I think everyone is underestimating how much of an impact losing Bacote will be. Having a solid PG that very rarely turned it over, especially in pressure "havoc" situations, is something that we might have taken for granted. Caver has some big shoes to fill in just the ball handling aspect, let alone this "floor general" stuff being thrown around for his sophomore season.

Depth is an issue on a lot of teams. We aren't unique in that aspect.

(05-26-2016 09:07 AM)EverydayInVA Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 07:46 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The unknowns:
Kah - How will he pan out?
Porter - How will he pan out?
Carver - How will he pan out?
Vassor - Walk-on practice player.
BJ Stith - Is he good enough to compensate for Freeman and/or Bacote?
Green - Is he ready for significant minutes? Will he redshirt?
Fields - Walk-on practice player.
Haynes - How will he pan out?
Maurus - Walk-on practice player.

Kah sounds good so far in open gym

Porter sounds like a bigger Taylor

Carver still a wildcard

Vassor maybe best walk on I remember at ODU elite athlete

BJ Stith hopefully is comfortable around dad and big bro and plays great

Green sounds like one of the best recruits ODUs gotten in a while

Fields is definitely not your average walk on, definitely not a "practice player" will be on scholarship at some point

Haynes was a heck of a high schooler gives ODU more size and athleticism on the perimeter

Maurus who knows


You guys keep talking about ODU relying on walk ons, but these aren't your normal walk ons, and the ONLY reason there are open scholarships is because ODU is lucky enough to have more flexibility than most teams in that department with the Stiths etc. Also isn't 2017 a deep year recruiting wise? I wouldn't be too upset carrying an extra scholarship or two into 2017 since somehow ODU has 2-3 scholarship players not on scholly.

I remember when I guy named John Morris was among the best HS recruits we had ever landed and there was a guy named Jason Thompson that was a terrific open gym player... we were so excited. I'm not being negative as I do think it could all come together. Just being realistic in that it also might not.

(05-26-2016 09:19 AM)mac Wrote:  I just laugh at some of these comments, but everyone has an opinion.

In their classification:
Green- Virginia Player of the Year
Porter- Virginia Player of the Year
Hayes- Virginia Player of the Year
Fields- Multiple time Virginia Player of the Year

This has never happened at ODU. We once had Hodge and Mullen on the same team as two different classification players of the year but never this many.

BJ Stith, before playing for powerhouse Oak Hill (2nd in nation) was a named all state in basketball three times in addition to being all state in track three times and he was the state champ in the 300m Hurdles and 400m relay. Some athlete !

(05-25-2016 04:34 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  For a game that allows only one ball and 5 players playing at a time...when ODU doesn't have 99 incoming players, it really seems to fan the flames...
I don't get the anger and vinegar...we have a coaching staff that has a plan, whether at your pace or not, to maximize its resources (schollys) in the manner they want. The absurd venom that is spouted about the 14th or 15th man, especially when 100s of transfers are available each year is unwarranted. If ODU had used every scholly and the players never left the bench would 244 pages of commentary be dedicated to that?
Recruiting is different today than even 5 years ago, transfers and high quality JUCO kids are readily available, the old adage that transfers are just someone else's problems in a new uniform is moot.
I've personally heard a multiple NCAA champion coach say on several occasions that the dumbest part of college MBB was the oversized rosters, and I for one fully agree (for both men and women basketball, Title IX and entitlement issues aside).

This thread like most of our recruitment threads bears a ugly resemblance to the JMU conference rumor threads..."blankedly blank coach/admin/school doesn't see things my way so I will sully the world with my venom".

This would be a well reasoned post if we didn't have glaring holes that those two empty scholarships could be used to fill. Last year we lacked depth severely, but yet the staff failed to use all of their scholarships. This year we are one shooter short and 1 deep at PG, and again the staff has two scholarships in its pocket.

(05-26-2016 09:19 AM)mac Wrote:  I just laugh at some of these comments, but everyone has an opinion.

In their classification:
Green- Virginia Player of the Year
Porter- Virginia Player of the Year
Hayes- Virginia Player of the Year
Fields- Multiple time Virginia Player of the Year

This has never happened at ODU. We once had Hodge and Mullen on the same team as two different classification players of the year but never this many.

BJ Stith, before playing for powerhouse Oak Hill (2nd in nation) was a named all state in basketball three times in addition to being all state in track three times and he was the state champ in the 300m Hurdles and 400m relay. Some athlete !

We are a damn Division I basketball team, Of course the guys we recruit were good in High School.