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^^^ exactly

(04-06-2015 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Texas has their own tv network and an endless supply of money. To expect us to be consistently as good as Texas is probably a pipedream.

We BJ Stith as our highest rated recruit ever. He would almost be an afterthought in a recruiting class at Texas.

I love Coach Jones and the school. But, we have to be somewhat realistic. Our ability to compete rests on us taking 3 star guys and improving them, not on the ability to recruit 5 star guys.

That kind of thinking didn't get Gonzaga where it has been for the last decade or so. Last I checked, they aren't in a P5 conference and they don't have their own TV network. Are you saying that Gonzaga is the only team that can do that? I think they have (over the last several years) been not only as good as Texas, but better than Texas. Memphis who just left C-USA would be another example of a team having similar success over a lengthy period of time that was probably at least as good as Texas had been during the same time.

Pipedream? I don't buy that at all. If the team starts winning (like ODU has) and the players start giving it a chance (as it appears they are/might) all it takes is a few years of repeating that process and it then becomes the solid norm. Again, good players and good coaches can go to ANY school and make it a good/great team. Who would have ever thought that a school like VCU would be offering their coach (in a year that ODU soundly thrashed them) a raise of approximately $1,000,000 after losing in the 1st round of the NCAA Tournament?

Besides, Texas hasn't been all that great. If they were then they wouldn't have fired their coach.

Yeah it is certainly not a pipe dream to be better than Texas for a decade. Hell, there are a number of mid majors that have been better than Texas recently.

(04-06-2015 03:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Texas has their own tv network and an endless supply of money. To expect us to be consistently as good as Texas is probably a pipedream.

We BJ Stith as our highest rated recruit ever. He would almost be an afterthought in a recruiting class at Texas.

I love Coach Jones and the school. But, we have to be somewhat realistic. Our ability to compete rests on us taking 3 star guys and improving them, not on the ability to recruit 5 star guys.

That kind of thinking didn't get Gonzaga where it has been for the last decade or so. Last I checked, they aren't in a P5 conference and they don't have their own TV network. Are you saying that Gonzaga is the only team that can do that? I think they have (over the last several years) been not only as good as Texas, but better than Texas. Memphis who just left C-USA would be another example of a team having similar success over a lengthy period of time that was probably at least as good as Texas had been during the same time.

Pipedream? I don't buy that at all. If the team starts winning (like ODU has) and the players start giving it a chance (as it appears they are/might) all it takes is a few years of repeating that process and it then becomes the solid norm. Again, good players and good coaches can go to ANY school and make it a good/great team. Who would have ever thought that a school like VCU would be offering their coach (in a year that ODU soundly thrashed them) a raise of approximately $1,000,000 after losing in the 1st round of the NCAA Tournament?

Besides, Texas hasn't been all that great. If they were then they wouldn't have fired their coach.

I don't think you got my point. Gonzaga isn't getting many 4 star recruits and no 5 star recruits. They are developing guys.

(04-06-2015 04:05 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 03:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Texas has their own tv network and an endless supply of money. To expect us to be consistently as good as Texas is probably a pipedream.

We BJ Stith as our highest rated recruit ever. He would almost be an afterthought in a recruiting class at Texas.

I love Coach Jones and the school. But, we have to be somewhat realistic. Our ability to compete rests on us taking 3 star guys and improving them, not on the ability to recruit 5 star guys.

That kind of thinking didn't get Gonzaga where it has been for the last decade or so. Last I checked, they aren't in a P5 conference and they don't have their own TV network. Are you saying that Gonzaga is the only team that can do that? I think they have (over the last several years) been not only as good as Texas, but better than Texas. Memphis who just left C-USA would be another example of a team having similar success over a lengthy period of time that was probably at least as good as Texas had been during the same time.

Pipedream? I don't buy that at all. If the team starts winning (like ODU has) and the players start giving it a chance (as it appears they are/might) all it takes is a few years of repeating that process and it then becomes the solid norm. Again, good players and good coaches can go to ANY school and make it a good/great team. Who would have ever thought that a school like VCU would be offering their coach (in a year that ODU soundly thrashed them) a raise of approximately $1,000,000 after losing in the 1st round of the NCAA Tournament?

Besides, Texas hasn't been all that great. If they were then they wouldn't have fired their coach.

I don't think you got my point. Gonzaga isn't getting many 4 star recruits and no 5 star recruits. They are developing guys.

I don't even care about how many stars someone got and never mentioned that. What I am saying is that the LOCAL guys that are being heavily recruited by teams/leagues we aspire to be competing against should not get awestruck by the names of the coaches or leagues. They should give a fair look to the local team for AT LEAST the reasons that I have already gone into if it will similarly take them where they hope to end up because in addition to probably getting them there just the same, there are numerous side benefits by being close to home. I have only mentioned a few of them thus far.

As far as Gonzaga goes ... when a 6'-10" player (Wilshire) is choosing between them and Kentucky and chooses Gonzaga, that is exactly what I am talking about. If that same player isn't a local to Gonzaga then that is just icing on the cake and they likely chose Gonzaga due to their success in recent years (again my point in how it can become the norm over time for kids to select your team). Anyway, that same player could have had big success at Kentucky no doubt. By going to Gonzaga instead he helped to provide continued success to Gonzaga. Where the players go makes the difference (not the name of the school). If that same guy alone was at ODU this year instead of at Gonzaga (for example) we were likely in the NCAA Tournament and very possibly a top 25 team going into it which would have made us a likely 6 or 7 seed at worst.

Ironically, Wiltjer did go to Kentucky.

(04-06-2015 07:44 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Ironically, Wiltjer did go to Kentucky.

I was waiting for this haha

Are you talking about kyle wiltjer? He left Kentucky bc they kept getting better players than him so he teamsferred out.

All Im saying is we have to be realistic. Occasionally maybe we get some recruits over bigger schools, but those are outliers. What kids are going to ODU if they have offers from UVA/Georgetown/UnC/etc? If we focus on outrecruiting them, we are going to be disappointed in general. We have to find the overlooked guys and coach them up.

(04-06-2015 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Are you talking about kyle wiltjer? He left Kentucky bc they kept getting better players than him so he teamsferred out.

All Im saying is we have to be realistic. Occasionally maybe we get some recruits over bigger schools, but those are outliers. What kids are going to ODU if they have offers from UVA/Georgetown/UnC/etc? If we focus on outrecruiting them, we are going to be disappointed in general. We have to find the overlooked guys and coach them up.

Agree. But we should certainly be able to hold our own when recruiting against GMU, VCU, UAB, WKU, UNCC, ECU, GSU, UCF etc. We haven't won too many battles against those guys as of late.

(04-06-2015 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Are you talking about kyle wiltjer? He left Kentucky bc they kept getting better players than him so he teamsferred out.

All Im saying is we have to be realistic. Occasionally maybe we get some recruits over bigger schools, but those are outliers. What kids are going to ODU if they have offers from UVA/Georgetown/UnC/etc? If we focus on outrecruiting them, we are going to be disappointed in general. We have to find the overlooked guys and coach them up.

If it is a blue chip, we probably won't get them, but we have a lot more playing time to offer the 3/4 star kid that can come here and have a chance to play or go to UNC and ride the bench for at least 3 years.

(04-06-2015 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Are you talking about kyle wiltjer? He left Kentucky bc they kept getting better players than him so he teamsferred out.

All Im saying is we have to be realistic. Occasionally maybe we get some recruits over bigger schools, but those are outliers. What kids are going to ODU if they have offers from UVA/Georgetown/UnC/etc? If we focus on outrecruiting them, we are going to be disappointed in general. We have to find the overlooked guys and coach them up.

The answer needs to be in the middle. We aren't going to get 5 stars, and at our best, are rarely going to get 4 stars. I think that most of us are looking to see more three stars and fewer 0 stars, and more than that we want to beat top mid majors and middling p5 schools.

(04-06-2015 08:48 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Are you talking about kyle wiltjer? He left Kentucky bc they kept getting better players than him so he teamsferred out.

All Im saying is we have to be realistic. Occasionally maybe we get some recruits over bigger schools, but those are outliers. What kids are going to ODU if they have offers from UVA/Georgetown/UnC/etc? If we focus on outrecruiting them, we are going to be disappointed in general. We have to find the overlooked guys and coach them up.

If it is a blue chip, we probably won't get them, but we have a lot more playing time to offer the 3/4 star kid that can come here and have a chance to play or go to UNC and ride the bench for at least 3 years.

Exactly

(04-06-2015 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  All Im saying is we have to be realistic. Occasionally maybe we get some recruits over bigger schools, but those are outliers.

Occasionally winning recruiting battles against bigger schools would be huge. It would be awesome to keep some of the elite talent local.

We have this discussion every few months :)

If we are ever going to snag a big-time kid it's going to be a local kid that wants to stay home. That's why you build relationships and recruit hard in the local area. It doesn't take a lot of effort or resources to recruit some 4 star kid from Hampton or Norfolk. Every one of them should get offers no matter position or year.

If, maybe, Coleman decides to stay here then maybe, just maybe, you can widen your 4 star reach.

That's my point. ODU hasn't occasionally won battles against bigger schools for big time local guys. Occasionally winning would be a huge improvement. Matt Coleman choosing ODU would be a new level in recruiting success.

(04-06-2015 10:12 PM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  That's my point. ODU hasn't occasionally won battles against bigger schools for big time local guys. Occasionally winning would be a huge improvement. Matt Coleman choosing ODU would be a new level in recruiting success.

I agree with this. The atmosphere the local kids experience at the TED is crucial. Many of the games (VCU, WKU, La. TECH, and the three NIT games) this year provided the kind of atmosphere the players we're talking about want to play in. For some, being able to both stay home, and have that as well could be the deciding factor. I hope we fans and the students keep bringing it.

(04-06-2015 07:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Are you talking about kyle wiltjer? He left Kentucky bc they kept getting better players than him so he teamsferred out.

All Im saying is we have to be realistic. Occasionally maybe we get some recruits over bigger schools, but those are outliers. If we focus on outrecruiting them, we are going to be disappointed in general. We have to find the overlooked guys and coach them up.

It would be a mistake for Jeff to stop recruiting any kid that ODU had spent some effort recruiting just because a "bigger name school" appeared on the scene to recruit the same kid. Especially if it is a local kid. THAT'S BEING REALISTIC.

I've said nothing about "focusing on out-recruiting" those types of schools (UVA/Georgetown/UNC/etc.).

My comments have been mainly about LOCAL KIDS, some of the benefits to them of staying near home to play college ball, how just one or two can make a big difference, and how the kids ultimately make the program they attend successful (whoever that school is). What of that do you disagree with???

You ask - What kids are going to ODU if they have offers from UVA/Georgetown/UNC/etc? One of the jerseys that has been retired by ODU is (#45 - Mark West). He was a kid that was recruited out of Petersburg HS by Terry Holland to play at UVA. He was also recruited by Paul Webb to play at ODU back during our years in the Sun Belt Conference. Oliver Purnell was involved with his recruiting for ODU and I have talked with him about that. I had the pleasure of watching Mark play for ODU and am very happy that we stayed active in recruiting him in spite of UVA being involved. Was he an "outlier", sure. No one has said anything differently? Still though, if you don't throw a line in the water, you'll never catch a fish. THAT'S BEING REALISTIC.

ODU has had kids LEAVE programs such as UVA (BJ Stith), Clemson (Donte Hill), Wake Forrest (Sylvester Charles), and Syracuse (Ricky Harmon - I think it was) - off the top of my head - and come to ODU. Obviously for them to have done that, they must have thought of ODU as a better fit for them personally all things considered. Everything isn't always just a rubber stamp (big name school) answer. THAT'S BEING REALISTIC.

What is "realistic" recruiting today for Memphis? For Wichita State? For Gonzaga? Whatever it is today, I think we can all agree that it has changed over a relatively short period of time. It really doesn't take that much to change the trend (see VCU). It also doesn't mean that you are always as good as the trend would imply (again see VCU).

(04-06-2015 11:20 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  

(04-06-2015 10:12 PM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  That's my point. ODU hasn't occasionally won battles against bigger schools for big time local guys. Occasionally winning would be a huge improvement. Matt Coleman choosing ODU would be a new level in recruiting success.

I agree with this. The atmosphere the local kids experience at the TED is crucial. Many of the games (VCU, WKU, La. TECH, and the three NIT games) this year provided the kind of atmosphere the players we're talking about want to play in. For some, being able to both stay home, and have that as well could be the deciding factor. I hope we fans and the students keep bringing it.

Agree 100%.

Well if you look at many of the recruiting sites and see the lists of schools we are recruiting against I would say we are trying to move in a new direction. I applaud the coaches for doing that. I'm excited to see who the next few Monarchs will be, this program is moving forward! I agree with you positive outlook guys. We need that first local stud to get the ball rolling and go from there. Have a lot of faith in this coaching staff. 2016 class is when you will see if the two plus years of work they have been putting in will start to bear fruit.

my point was some what tongue in cheek against VCU but you guys missed the point. At the mid major level - VCU and ODU are both mid-major and on the same recruiting level - there is a big grey area between what is a really a 3* and a 4* recruit. People get hung up on the numbers. Same with a 2*-3*. I trust JJ and our coaches and for the first time in years we are competitive in recruiting, at least attempting to get bigger level players. Getting out of the CAA is helping us. Burgess was a 4* recruit at VCU. I've watched the guy for 2 years, he's a solid player but not comparable to the 4* guys playing at the P5 schools.