The parents probably would have joined in the false premise protest had they known. They're probably pissed they missed it. I doubt they care much about the education of their kids anyways.

(12-03-2014 05:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Well. It's been a couple of hours and we have a blanket suspend 20% of them which Would lead to an even greater pr nightmare and a unicornatopia gibbitty goo put em' to work. As usual no solutions.

So educate us, educator. What would the policy be for an instance like this where you are? If I'm a student and simply walk away, what would happen in your school?

Sounds as if your hung up on it being "too many too fail" . So what would you suggest? Simply do nothing? That's always an option, though usually a poor one. How do you tell them "No" the next time someone gets their panties-a-wadded over the perpetuation of a lie?

Do you fold your hands and just let the inmates rule the asylum as happens in so many of our government run schools already? Is that serving these "kids"?

WWMD?

What would Mach Do?

I think they are dealing with an impossible situation. In our school, we probably would have had a seminar in the morning where everybody would get a chance to talk with counsellors present. There would have been an open door policy with any of the counselors. You can't teach if the kids are distraught like that. Any emotionally disturbed kid disrupts others too. They would be responsible for any missed work but I gaurantee you they would have been allowed to protest. These kids are not in an adversarial relationship anymore. We bend over backwards to help the individual kid. Heck in my school they would probably pay for tutors to get the kids back up to speed. It's different today. You would never suspend or expel them. Too big of a hit on the district grade card. We were ranked in the US news and World Report in the top 90% of public high schools. Can you imagine just writing off 20%? Would never happen in my neck of the woods. Those rankings look great on resumes. We do everything humanly possible to keep them high.

(12-03-2014 11:49 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-03-2014 11:43 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  A great class trip would have been a federal prison!

I agree 100%. Or a museum. Or a historical landmark.

But to protest the wrong telling of the story? Pathetic.

Revisionist history is nothing new! It's been going on in this country since Reconstruction!!


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You can stop a kid from leaving school.

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(12-03-2014 08:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  You can stop a kid from leaving school.

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Too bad that attitude doesn't extend to educating them.

Maybe a kid. Like 1. Even then. What are you going to do? Have him arrested? You're talking about 20-30% of you population. No way in hell. I'm telling you it's a no win situation. You are in charge of educating them. This isn't the 80's. We have proficiencies now. End of course exams and school ratings. We had a kid go into county jail and we paid for a virtual learning academy computer and still had the kid tested for his proficiencies.

(12-03-2014 09:35 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(12-03-2014 08:23 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  You can stop a kid from leaving school.

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Too bad that attitude doesn't extend to educating them.

It does. We can't force them to stay and we can't force them to learn. All we can do is try.

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(12-03-2014 05:11 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Get them out of the classrooms? How?


Get them to work? How?

Ohhhhhh Torchy??????

You trying to find that magic wand?

PUOSU

You get owned and still ask for more? Your 137 IQ is an endless source of amusement.

You never answered the question.

How would you get them to work? How would you force them out of the classrooms? Specifics. Not in your fairy tale made up uniconatopia either. I want a reality based solution to what you just offered.

You can't. So you won't. I just want you to admit it.

(12-03-2014 10:05 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Maybe a kid. Like 1. Even then. What are you going to do? Have him arrested? You're talking about 20-30% of you population. No way in hell. I'm telling you it's a no win situation. You are in charge of educating them. This isn't the 80's. We have proficiencies now. End of course exams and school ratings. We had a kid go into county jail and we paid for a virtual learning academy computer and still had the kid tested for his proficiencies.

The system is now set-up to allow the inmates to run the asylum - you've just admitted as much. "There's nothing we can do!" - and what those kids did is a pretty cut and dried violation of the rules.

The worst kinds of work situations are when people are given responsibilities, but the bosses/system doesn't give the worker enough power to affect/assure the outcome.

This is a poster child situation showing that as a society - we have lost our way - and we wonder why kids graduating from school and entering the workforce aren't prepared, yet feel entitled.

We've taught them that actions don't have consequences.................until it does.

I would agree that once you made the school accountable for the kids grade you changed the whole dynamic. This is what the right wanted. I do find it interesting that you compare schools to prisons with inmates and asylums. It could be or should be compared to a place where you want achievement. The kid or the family should be held responsible for their actions but the way it is set up today we have to do everything humanly possible to ensure a modicum of success.

(12-04-2014 08:31 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-03-2014 10:05 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Maybe a kid. Like 1. Even then. What are you going to do? Have him arrested? You're talking about 20-30% of you population. No way in hell. I'm telling you it's a no win situation. You are in charge of educating them. This isn't the 80's. We have proficiencies now. End of course exams and school ratings. We had a kid go into county jail and we paid for a virtual learning academy computer and still had the kid tested for his proficiencies.

The system is now set-up to allow the inmates to run the asylum - you've just admitted as much. "There's nothing we can do!" - and what those kids did is a pretty cut and dried violation of the rules.

The worst kinds of work situations are when people are given responsibilities, but the bosses/system doesn't give the worker enough power to affect/assure the outcome.

This is a poster child situation showing that as a society - we have lost our way - and we wonder why kids graduating from school and entering the workforce aren't prepared, yet feel entitled.

We've taught them that actions don't have consequences.................until it does.

Once again like Rappers, Gangsters, Drug Dealers, You now give another Thug a Hero Status in the poor Community to emulate. Decent Role models are becoming in very short supply these days .

(12-04-2014 08:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would agree that once you made the school accountable for the kids grade you changed the whole dynamic. This is what the right wanted. I do find it interesting that you compare schools to prisons with inmates and asylums.

Of course mach avoids the evidence that flies in the face of his favorite claim "right wing bogeymen!"

It's old-school liberals that have been calling schools "prisons" and have been vocal about it for decades.

Not that I disagree with them, but that's because there are are the leftists who are still about individual liberty. mach is all about getting a comfortable paycheck and good retirement...at the expense of taxpayers.

Quote: The kid or the family should be held responsible for their actions but the way it is set up today we have to do everything humanly possible to ensure a modicum of success.

And all evidence shows that's due to the efforts of modern leftists. Yet our 137 IQ poster still remains in denial.

(12-04-2014 08:21 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You never answered the question.

How would you get them to work? How would you force them out of the classrooms? Specifics.

So now I have to do your job too?

You act like it's hard to find out how things were done 40-50 years ago. And for you, it probably is, as we've seen your failures at research. (Starting salaries anyone?)

But if you really want an answer then resign on principle, and I'll dig up the answers for you.

(12-04-2014 08:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would agree that once you made the school accountable for the kids grade you changed the whole dynamic. This is what the right wanted. I do find it interesting that you compare schools to prisons with inmates and asylums. It could be or should be compared to a place where you want achievement. The kid or the family should be held responsible for their actions but the way it is set up today we have to do everything humanly possible to ensure a modicum of success.

Don't try and pin that on just the right!! Teddy Kennedy and others on the left were up to their eyeballs in "school reform".

My comparison of schools to prisons still works because human interactions work the same be it the workplace, a school, or a prison. There are always people that will do what they can "get away with".

The measure of the institution is how effective they are at keeping the lid on "what can we get away with". Do we have rules - and do we enforce them fairly? Those that fail this very basic thing - eventually fail as an institution. I don't care if it's a school, a business, a prison - or a country for that matter.

(12-04-2014 08:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would agree that once you made the school accountable for the kids grade you changed the whole dynamic. This is what the right wanted. I do find it interesting that you compare schools to prisons with inmates and asylums. It could be or should be compared to a place where you want achievement. The kid or the family should be held responsible for their actions but the way it is set up today we have to do everything humanly possible to ensure a modicum of success.

You forget that the right is what gave us standardized testing and funds tied to test scores. Yes the intent was to put accountability on students but the result was increased pressure on teachers to teach to a test. Real education went out the window quickly.

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(12-04-2014 09:14 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-04-2014 08:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would agree that once you made the school accountable for the kids grade you changed the whole dynamic. This is what the right wanted. I do find it interesting that you compare schools to prisons with inmates and asylums. It could be or should be compared to a place where you want achievement. The kid or the family should be held responsible for their actions but the way it is set up today we have to do everything humanly possible to ensure a modicum of success.

You forget that the right is what gave us standardized testing and funds tied to test scores. Yes the intent was to put accountability on students but the result was increased pressure on teachers to teach to a test. Real education went out the window quickly.

That canard still makes me laugh. The question is which part of the joke is funnier:

1. That low IQ teachers would even recognize real education?

2. The poor performance of students that spurred the demand for accountability?

Might make for an interesting poll.

(12-04-2014 09:14 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-04-2014 08:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would agree that once you made the school accountable for the kids grade you changed the whole dynamic. This is what the right wanted. I do find it interesting that you compare schools to prisons with inmates and asylums. It could be or should be compared to a place where you want achievement. The kid or the family should be held responsible for their actions but the way it is set up today we have to do everything humanly possible to ensure a modicum of success.

You forget that the right is what gave us standardized testing and funds tied to test scores. Yes the intent was to put accountability on students but the result was increased pressure on teachers to teach to a test. Real education went out the window quickly.

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Surely you're not arguing for public schools having NO accountability. The problem isn't that we've created accountability standards, it's that in typical government fashion - they've tried to make a "one size fits all" measurement system when kids are anything but the same. Now they are using the same failing method and applying it to healthcare. Oh boy.

Torch,

You were caught in a lie on the starting salaries. You didn't disclose it. You are not an honest broker.

Now for the third time. If you don't want to answer it admit it. If your mouth wrote checks your butt can't cash. Admit it. People would have more respect for you. Admit you were wrong and talking out of your a**.

OR:

How would you put them to work? How would you kick them out of the classroom? Live in a reality based world or PUoSU.