The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(11-03-2014 06:42 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Razor, Giles and others....

Have you guys been on the field with our defensive personnel, whether it be a practice or event? If you have you would be shocked at how small they are relative to what you would expect a D1 football team to look like.

Do you expect a d-line of 240 pound ends and 270 pound tackles to ever be able to hold their ground? I'm shocked when the opposing team ever passes the ball. We are giving up 50 pounds per player.

We should be bad defensively, everyone acknowledges that for a team as new as our and one that is transitioning. Anything the D can contribute is a huge BONUS.

The entire system is banking on the offense to be overwhelming. It has often not been.

Yes. Our defense is small and not good. What does that have to do with the offense? Why is our offense being criticized bc the defense is small? Our offense is one of the best in CUSA in year 1. It's ranked well inside the top half of college football. The offense would need to average 45 points per game to win games. So, the offense should be blamed bc they don't average 45?

(11-03-2014 08:21 PM)odubum Wrote:  I know we haven't recruited the level of talent to make us a full fledged FBS school yet but we have recruited some better talent than we used to. Enough that our defense shouldn't be this bad in my opinion. Still, what bothers me the most is we have seen no improvement versus previous years. Moving up or not we still shouldn't be this bad.

I can take the losing if I see improvement. I haven't and that's what's so frustrating.

You are comparing playing FCS teams to FBS teams. The defense is certainly better than it has been in the past. There are talented recruits redshirting. It will take time.

(11-03-2014 09:13 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  No love here for Colin?

I think Washington being the backup QB despite being a starting WR says it all.

(11-03-2014 09:13 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  No love here for Colin?

Can he punt?

(11-03-2014 10:38 PM)LuckyLion Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 09:13 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  No love here for Colin?

Can he punt?

Here is the Bobby Wilder take on the Vandy game.
He references improvements on defense; specifically tackling, and the issues with the offense, specifically our inability to convert on 3rd and 4th downs.

Of course he makes it clear that the Vandy line size dominated both sides pf the ball.

Courtesy of ODUR8R:
http://odubleedblue.com/video-bobby-wild...views-fiu/

Were making the same arguments over and over after a loss. Who's to blame? The defense is putting pressure on the offense to score on every possession. The offense doesn't sustained drives or scores too quickly and puts pressure on the defense.

All true.

Both need to improve. If we had a top ten offense maybe we could overcome the defensive weakness. If we had a top 100 defense maybe we could overcome the offensive weakness. One or both improve (and special teams) and we have a good team with a winning record.

I get the argument that the defense hasn't improved. I don't see any but I understand we're playing better offenses. Still frustrating though. I think that is the crux of the argument on the defense because we want to be more balanced. If we had a better defense I would be satisfied with the offense. Because we don't I get frustrated with every mistake by the offense.

It's interesting to me that there hasn't been much talk lately of special teams. We're not very good there either. We had a kick return against Vandy to about the 45. I couldn't remember any others this year past the 30. How many teams have retuned it to mid field against us? How many for touchdowns? How many successful onside kicks have we had this year? (Answer - 0). How many against us? At least one I remember, although it was more of a pooch kick. Do I need to bring up the punting game? We had one return for a touchdown but overall the punt returns and punt coverage have been lacking in my opinion. My point is special teams matter and we have been underperforming there also.

Caveat: stats mentioned above are from memory. If any of it is wrong please correct me.

You guys do realize that recruits read these boards. Complaining about coaches when their guys aren't even in the rotation does absolutely nothing. If I was a recruit and really like a defensive coach who was recruiting me but questioned if he was still going to be there, I would probably look elsewhere.

I see people comparing us to Georgia Southern (who has won 6 FCS championships and have been around for almost 35 years) and Charleston Southern (who has existed for almost 25 years). That is highly unfair as our coaches started a program without any history or many high school relationships in the area. College coaches actually use this against us by telling recruits that ODU will have some growing pains over the next few years. Some kids want to win now, some are excited about being part of the building process and some want to go where they have the best opportunity to play due to the teams weaknesses.

The fact that we have been in every game except Marshall is pretty amazing. I personally don't see the drop off next year due to losing a quarterback. We will have a good sophomore running back, good young receivers, quality defensive ends that will be redshirt freshmen, young lineman who are putting on muscle and a 2 time Parade All American redshirt Freshman QB. These are kids that chose to be part of the building process.

Let's support them through thick and thin and see where we are once our first class of FBS recruits graduate. It's too easy being a Sunday Morning coach saying what we should have done.

(11-04-2014 12:55 PM)NCDad Wrote:  You guys do realize that recruits read these boards. Complaining about coaches when their guys aren't even in the rotation does absolutely nothing. If I was a recruit and really like a defensive coach who was recruiting me but questioned if he was still going to be there, I would probably look elsewhere.

I see people comparing us to Georgia Southern (who has won 6 FCS championships and have been around for almost 35 years) and Charleston Southern (who has existed for almost 25 years). That is highly unfair as our coaches started a program without any history or many high school relationships in the area. College coaches actually use this against us by telling recruits that ODU will have some growing pains over the next few years. Some kids want to win now, some are excited about being part of the building process and some want to go where they have the best opportunity to play due to the teams weaknesses.

The fact that we have been in every game except Marshall is pretty amazing. I personally don't see the drop off next year due to losing a quarterback. We will have a good sophomore running back, good young receivers, quality defensive ends that will be redshirt freshmen, young lineman who are putting on muscle and a 2 time Parade All American redshirt Freshman QB. These are kids that chose to be part of the building process.

Let's support them through thick and thin and see where we are once our first class of FBS recruits graduate. It's too easy being a Sunday Morning coach saying what we should have done.

Well put and exactly how I see things. That's almost verbatim how I explain things to people in person when they ask me how ODU is doing now that they read about the losses and such. I remind them of the RS's this year and the players coming in, etc.

Have we talked? =]

(11-04-2014 12:55 PM)NCDad Wrote:  You guys do realize that recruits read these boards. Complaining about coaches when their guys aren't even in the rotation does absolutely nothing. If I was a recruit and really like a defensive coach who was recruiting me but questioned if he was still going to be there, I would probably look elsewhere.

I see people comparing us to Georgia Southern (who has won 6 FCS championships and have been around for almost 35 years) and Charleston Southern (who has existed for almost 25 years). That is highly unfair as our coaches started a program without any history or many high school relationships in the area. College coaches actually use this against us by telling recruits that ODU will have some growing pains over the next few years. Some kids want to win now, some are excited about being part of the building process and some want to go where they have the best opportunity to play due to the teams weaknesses.

The fact that we have been in every game except Marshall is pretty amazing. I personally don't see the drop off next year due to losing a quarterback. We will have a good sophomore running back, good young receivers, quality defensive ends that will be redshirt freshmen, young lineman who are putting on muscle and a 2 time Parade All American redshirt Freshman QB. These are kids that chose to be part of the building process.

Let's support them through thick and thin and see where we are once our first class of FBS recruits graduate. It's too easy being a Sunday Morning coach saying what we should have done.

if a recruit (or anyone for that matter) come to a message board of a team who's lost 5 games in a row they aren't going to find a whole lot of positive comments. I kind of doubt a recruit is going to change his mind b/c the fans are pissed off that the team is losing.

The biggest issue with our defense for me starts at the top. According to BW time of possession does not mean anything, its the number of plays you run. How can you expect kids to play at there maximum level when they are on the field more than half the game week in and week out? This philosophy only enhances our weakness. It does not matter who the team is, at this level there are times when you need to control the clock and slow the tempo in order to give your guys time to hydrate and get the proper adjustments. Even teams like TCU and Oregon can control the clock when they want to. Based on BW's statement, defensive depth is paramount to what he wants to do. We have some depth now, but if you look at the roster you see a lot of FR/SO's by the names. Boys rarely beat men. They will grow up, but we do need to learn the time of possession concept. This would not only help the D, but the offense as well. Less pressure since they may not feel they have to score a touchdown every possession. Just my two cents after watching yesterday's press conference.

amen, 84

I'd make the obligatory "if a kid changes his mind because of message board posts, do we really want him anyways" remark but really, what's the point.

If I was a recruit and I saw a passionate fanbase who wants to win just as bad as I do, I'd think that would be a positive, not a negative.

No one is ripping on individual players here, we are discussing our coaching staff who has been unable to recruit a decent defense in 6 years.

Sure, we've changed levels, but with all the talent in our own backyard, we should start landing some bigger name defensive recruits.

So far, I haven't seen that happen.

(11-04-2014 01:07 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  The biggest issue with our defense for me starts at the top. According to BW time of possession does not mean anything, its the number of plays you run. How can you expect kids to play at there maximum level when they are on the field more than half the game week in and week out? This philosophy only enhances our weakness. It does not matter who the team is, at this level there are times when you need to control the clock and slow the tempo in order to give your guys time to hydrate and get the proper adjustments. Even teams like TCU and Oregon can control the clock when they want to. Based on BW's statement, defensive depth is paramount to what he wants to do. We have some depth now, but if you look at the roster you see a lot of FR/SO's by the names. Boys rarely beat men. They will grow up, but we do need to learn the time of possession concept. This would not only help the D, but the offense as well. Less pressure since they may not feel they have to score a touchdown every possession. Just my two cents after watching yesterday's press conference.

If they were better at the beginning of games than they were at the end, I might agree with this thoroughly, but they are not. In fact, some games they seemed to man up a little more and do better in the second half. May be because the o-line is getting tired, I don't know.

BW does need to manage the clock a little better. I wonder if anyone has looked at actual time duration rather than game clock time in making these assessments, though. We run a lot of plays that stop the game clock. Even completed passes, seems like most go to the outside and the receiver runs out of bounds to stop the clock.

(11-04-2014 01:28 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Sure, we've changed levels, but with all the talent in our own backyard, we should start landing some bigger name defensive recruits.

So far, I haven't seen that happen.

See, I don't agree with this, but maybe our definition of "bigger name" differs. I see two and three star recruits as "bigger name" because they are 'bigger' than what we were getting while FCS. By my definition, we've got quite a few "bigger name" defensive players already enrolled but redshirting, with more commits coming in the 2015 class. Could you clarify what you mean?

(11-04-2014 01:28 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  I'd make the obligatory "if a kid changes his mind because of message board posts, do we really want him anyways" remark but really, what's the point.

If I was a recruit and I saw a passionate fanbase who wants to win just as bad as I do, I'd think that would be a positive, not a negative.

No one is ripping on individual players here, we are discussing our coaching staff who has been unable to recruit a decent defense in 6 years.

Sure, we've changed levels, but with all the talent in our own backyard, we should start landing some bigger name defensive recruits.

So far, I haven't seen that happen.

+1

[/quote]

if a recruit (or anyone for that matter) come to a message board of a team who's lost 5 games in a row they aren't going to find a whole lot of positive comments. I kind of doubt a recruit is going to change his mind b/c the fans are pissed off that the team is losing.
[/quote]

He will change his mind if he gets the feeling the coach who is recruiting him isn't going to be there.

(11-04-2014 01:07 PM)84Monarch Wrote:  The biggest issue with our defense for me starts at the top. According to BW time of possession does not mean anything, its the number of plays you run. How can you expect kids to play at there maximum level when they are on the field more than half the game week in and week out? This philosophy only enhances our weakness. It does not matter who the team is, at this level there are times when you need to control the clock and slow the tempo in order to give your guys time to hydrate and get the proper adjustments. Even teams like TCU and Oregon can control the clock when they want to. Based on BW's statement, defensive depth is paramount to what he wants to do. We have some depth now, but if you look at the roster you see a lot of FR/SO's by the names. Boys rarely beat men. They will grow up, but we do need to learn the time of possession concept. This would not only help the D, but the offense as well. Less pressure since they may not feel they have to score a touchdown every possession. Just my two cents after watching yesterday's press conference.

Time of Possession will always be an issue with us. Certainly the offense plays some part on this. But, then again, if the defense could get off the field, it would help them immensely. We give up way too many 15 play 6:00 drives...that is on the defense for not getting off the field.

In terms of time of possession, we are next to last in the NCAA. But, that does not excuse bad defense. There are teams that have similar time of possession with significantly better defense.

UNC (91)
ODU (128)
Temple (57)
Bowling Green (114)
Eastern Michigan(87)
Tx Tech (111)
Oregon (36)
N Mex State (108)
Fresno State (121)
Texas State (104)

(11-04-2014 12:55 PM)NCDad Wrote:  You guys do realize that recruits read these boards. Complaining about coaches when their guys aren't even in the rotation does absolutely nothing. If I was a recruit and really like a defensive coach who was recruiting me but questioned if he was still going to be there, I would probably look elsewhere.

I see people comparing us to Georgia Southern (who has won 6 FCS championships and have been around for almost 35 years) and Charleston Southern (who has existed for almost 25 years). That is highly unfair as our coaches started a program without any history or many high school relationships in the area. College coaches actually use this against us by telling recruits that ODU will have some growing pains over the next few years. Some kids want to win now, some are excited about being part of the building process and some want to go where they have the best opportunity to play due to the teams weaknesses.

The fact that we have been in every game except Marshall is pretty amazing. I personally don't see the drop off next year due to losing a quarterback. We will have a good sophomore running back, good young receivers, quality defensive ends that will be redshirt freshmen, young lineman who are putting on muscle and a 2 time Parade All American redshirt Freshman QB. These are kids that chose to be part of the building process.

Let's support them through thick and thin and see where we are once our first class of FBS recruits graduate. It's too easy being a Sunday Morning coach saying what we should have done.

I support them as much as anyone. And I totally agree that we cannot judge the coaches for another 2-3 years.

But, we are hardcore fans and there will be discussion on the team. When discussing the status of the team, you cannot ignore the performance of the defense....it is bad....but, there are excuses for why it is bad.

Let's all stop for one minute and consider a couple of things.

1. For our first few years- we were competing for recruits with fellow FCS schools for players with no FBS offers. A scholly offer from ODU to a kid with no FBS options looked damn good. Our facilities, fan base, $$ and style of play put us on the map right away an threw us into overdrive

The came the move.

2. Now we are a "lesser" FBS program competing for players who only have primarily only FBS offers on the table in a region rich with FBS choices for impressionable High Schoolers. A tougher sell.

We have every right as football stakeholders to expect more but in an honest moment we have to recognize that FBS talent on our roster is spread very thin...as in no depth. Complaining is one thing and I am no exception- but let's not contribute to establishing a negative culture in the community about this program. We have a long way to go.