(03-07-2014 11:58 AM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 11:00 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 07:26 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Secession is natural and is a common part of history. America seceded from Britain, the South seceded from the Union (though it was put down by military force), former soviet republics left Russia, etc. It happens all the time. I support the right of the regions of Ukraine, and all people for that matter, to make up their own minds about who they want to govern them.

Jugnaut, the problem is.. the "temporary" govt that voted on this.. REFUSED to let two Ukranian parliamentarians(Is that what they are?) in to their govt building to argue/vote "NO" on rejoining Russia.

So it's not exactly a "fair vote" right now.

In all fairness though. It was unanimous, so I don't think two votes would have made a difference. As to the argument, the Crimea had been a part of Russia for a long time and the large majority of people in this region are Russian.

No argument there Pharaoh. I think the result would have been the same with Crimea voting that way regardless. But why even make it have the appearance of not being completely above board?

Quote: I think this vote says more about the ethnic division between Crimea (and eastern Ukraine though they didn't vote) and the western Ukraine.

This about covers it IMO.

(03-07-2014 08:40 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  There is a significant minority Muslim population in the Crimea. Hey Vlad, think Chechnya-West.

Unlikely. The Tatars are not extremists. In this case, the violent extremists are Russians, and violence against minorities has been endorsed (DIRECTLY) by the Russian Orthodox Church (which is really just a political ally of Putin).

The Tatars will appeal to Turkey for assistance.

(03-07-2014 11:58 AM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  Russia has basically taken over the area without firing a shot, except for a warning shot. They don't have troops in cities and everyone seems to not care that they are there. I think this vote says more about the ethnic division between Crimea (and eastern Ukraine though they didn't vote) and the western Ukraine.

Again, so has the rest of the Ukraine. It's telling that Ukraine literally translates to "someone else's *****".

Ukraine actually means "borderland"

It kinda seems like foreshadowing that Ukraine's anthem is called "Ukraine has not YET Perished."

(03-07-2014 06:07 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  It kinda seems like foreshadowing that Ukraine's anthem is called "Ukraine has not YET Perished."

Yes, that doesn't scream confidence. Their name means "not quite a country" and their national anthem is "we're not done for yet".

For the record, my asterisks above were "biatch".

My grandparents were from the Ukraine, near Chernobyl (my grandfather's birth certificate was from "Tchernobyl"). I can't recall my grandmother ever even using the work Ukraine... she'd talk about her hatred of the White Russians, but I really never distinguished the Ukraine from Russia until the wall fell.