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Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

03-lmfao Another Pitt fan trying to make a dig at UCONN, UC, and USF...

The reason why the P5s associate with those schools is because they've been in a conference with them for so long and no one is going to kick out a long existing P5 school. If all conference affiliations were wiped away, and the P5 were told to rebuild them based on who they really want, there would be changes (both between the P5 conferences and between the bottom tier P5 and top tier G5).

And let's face the facts: The only reason why Pitt is currently in a P5 is because UCONN pissed off too many schools, making Pitt the less controversial choice...but you can keep pretending it was your amazing college sports market and unrivaled athletic department that got you in.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2014 02:24 PM by HuskyU.)
02-12-2014 02:24 PM
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HartfordHusky Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 04:53 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:39 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  With all due respect, your response is not logical. Whatever happens with the Maryland exit fee lawsuit, it has no bearing whatsoever on the GOR; and the financial impact to a departing school - even if it had to pay the full exit fee - is chump change compared to the impact of the GOR. Secondly, it should have become clear that UVA, GT, and UNC did not want to go to the BiG. If they did, don't you think that at least some of these schools would be there now in place of Maryland and/or Rutgers?

I'll go with what I've read in the Washington Post and other major newspapers. There is speculation out there that Maryland is about to expose interference by ESPN and the ACC that caused the Big East to break up. That would expose them to huge lawsuits by UConn, UC, and USF for tortious interference and the damages could be huge. Lots of what ifs... I'm not saying anything will happen. I'm just saying I'm not sold that the ACC GOR will matter come the end of this. My guess, the ACC settles for pennies on the dollar and, should UC, UConn, and USF not find their way to a bigger conference, more discovery filings happening in order to figure out if the ACC and/or ESPN was involved in damaging those 3 schools.

(02-12-2014 02:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

03-lmfao Another Pitt fan trying to make a dig at UCONN, UC, and USF...

The reason why the P5s associate with those schools is because they've been in a conference with them for so long and no one is going to kick out a long existing P5 school. If all conference affiliations were wiped away, and the P5 were told to rebuild them based on who they really want, there would be changes (both between the P5 conferences and between the bottom tier P5 and top tier G5).

And let's face the facts: The only reason why Pitt is currently in a P5 is because UCONN pissed off too many schools, making Pitt the less controversial choice...but you can keep pretending it was your amazing college sports market and unrivaled athletic department that got you in.

UConn fans shouldn't kid ourselves. The main reason we are not in a P5 is lack of football pedigree. The state of CT never thought big about UConn Athletics, or really UConn in general, until we got in the Big East and started to become nationally known for hoops. It's our fault. We could have decided to play big boy football 50 years ago and had we done so, things would likely be different now.

All we can do is keep winning in the sports we win at, which is a lot, and try to start winning in football and to a lesser extent hockey, now that we'll be in Hockey East. Win games, keep the state solidly behind us, and we'll be okay, P5 or not. We have no competition in our market. No other college gets any coverage whatsoever in our media. UConn is in no danger of losing prominence where it really matters, in Connecticut.

The majority of the G5 don't have that luxury. Most are secondary or lower in their own local markets, not to mention states. CT is a decent sized, wealthy state with no FBS competition at all, let alone P5 competition.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2014 02:43 PM by HartfordHusky.)
02-12-2014 02:32 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

Those schools, most of them, have been in the same conferences for decades and decades. Originally founded based mainly on close geographical ties.
02-12-2014 02:48 PM
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C Marlow Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 02:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

Those schools, most of them, have been in the same conferences for decades and decades. Originally founded based mainly on close geographical ties.

And this statement makes my point less relevant how? Let's take the B1G as an example. Since the majority of people believes that tradition is little more than fond memories that can be discarded, then why didn't OSU, Michigan, PSU, Wisconsin and the upper half of the B1G simply break apart and work with Texas, TAMU, OU, Kansas and Nebraska to put together a brand new conference that would have been a significant upgrade - athletically - for those involved? Hell, bring Okie St and Texas Tech along for the ride in order to lock down the big dogs from the Big XII and kick this party off 5 or 10 years ago??? It's because schools like OSU and Michigan STILL WANT TO ASSOCIATE with Minnesota and Indiana. The length of time they were together in a conference is meaningless. They could have easily gotten rid of the "lower tier schools" within the B1G and created a newer, better conference and then launched the BTN. Before you try to tell me that it was a different world back when the BTN first started and that conference realignment wasn't a consideration...spare me. Everyone has talked to everyone else about conference realignment scenarios for decades.

Bottom line is this: The conferences exist as they do today because the schools are content to associate with each other.
02-12-2014 03:02 PM
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westwolf Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 03:02 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 02:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

Those schools, most of them, have been in the same conferences for decades and decades. Originally founded based mainly on close geographical ties.

And this statement makes my point less relevant how? Let's take the B1G as an example. Since the majority of people believes that tradition is little more than fond memories that can be discarded, then why didn't OSU, Michigan, PSU, Wisconsin and the upper half of the B1G simply break apart and work with Texas, TAMU, OU, Kansas and Nebraska to put together a brand new conference that would have been a significant upgrade - athletically - for those involved? Hell, bring Okie St and Texas Tech along for the ride in order to lock down the big dogs from the Big XII and kick this party off 5 or 10 years ago??? It's because schools like OSU and Michigan STILL WANT TO ASSOCIATE with Minnesota and Indiana. The length of time they were together in a conference is meaningless. They could have easily gotten rid of the "lower tier schools" within the B1G and created a newer, better conference and then launched the BTN. Before you try to tell me that it was a different world back when the BTN first started and that conference realignment wasn't a consideration...spare me. Everyone has talked to everyone else about conference realignment scenarios for decades.

Bottom line is this: The conferences exist as they do today because the schools are content to associate with each other.

C. Marlow and Tom Dienhart are correct. As Brett McMurphry reported months ago: "There are no GO5 schools which are wanted by ANY of the P5 conferences". Game over for years to come.
02-12-2014 04:05 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 11:58 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 11:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  The only schools the B1G would expand for are Notre Dame or ones already in other P5s and those of course will be extremely hard to get given the GORs. And not just any schools in the P5 like Kansas, but ones with elite football and/or market power.

Fail. The B1G made it clear that they'll expand for either markets (like Rutgers & Maryland) or national brands (like Nebraska). Kansas is not only a national brand, but a basketball power.

Kansas market- nothing.
Kansas football - nothing.

Kansas basketball - Elite brand, but not worth anything like $40m a year.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2014 04:07 PM by quo vadis.)
02-12-2014 04:07 PM
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RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
Which is unfortunate... and ultimately will probably end up being what kills college sports in general. The NCAA basketball tournament is great because of the Cinderella stories. In football they are essentially killing that, and it is only a matter of time before that happens in basketball.
02-12-2014 04:08 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 12:02 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The thing that makes the grant of rights so powerful is that it reverses things. Right now it's up to the conferences loosing members to try to sue and get what they can. Exit fees penalties or not, the courts are only willing to go so far there.

The grant of rights is the opposite though. A school can still leave as it sees fit, but the old conference retains control of the media rights. That means that if no agreement is reached, the school doesn't get them back till the end of the contract. Suing in this case is a lot less helpful to the school, because it doubtful a court is just going to outright give them back.

That's a great point. The old saying is that possession is 9/10 of the law, and whereas with exit fees the school has possession of the money* and the conference has to sue to get it, with media rights the conference has possession and the school has to sue to get it back, which as you say is a much tougher position to be in.

* Unless the conference owes the school money at the time of departure, in which case it can retain that money.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2014 04:10 PM by quo vadis.)
02-12-2014 04:09 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 03:02 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 02:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

Those schools, most of them, have been in the same conferences for decades and decades. Originally founded based mainly on close geographical ties.

And this statement makes my point less relevant how? Let's take the B1G as an example. Since the majority of people believes that tradition is little more than fond memories that can be discarded, then why didn't OSU, Michigan, PSU, Wisconsin and the upper half of the B1G simply break apart and work with Texas, TAMU, OU, Kansas and Nebraska to put together a brand new conference that would have been a significant upgrade - athletically - for those involved? Hell, bring Okie St and Texas Tech along for the ride in order to lock down the big dogs from the Big XII and kick this party off 5 or 10 years ago??? It's because schools like OSU and Michigan STILL WANT TO ASSOCIATE with Minnesota and Indiana. The length of time they were together in a conference is meaningless. They could have easily gotten rid of the "lower tier schools" within the B1G and created a newer, better conference and then launched the BTN. Before you try to tell me that it was a different world back when the BTN first started and that conference realignment wasn't a consideration...spare me. Everyone has talked to everyone else about conference realignment scenarios for decades.

Bottom line is this: The conferences exist as they do today because the schools are content to associate with each other.

Correction: The conference exist as they do today because schools like Washington State, Wake Forest and a few others would sue if they were cut out of a P5 league.


and just because you sound like a nice guy, I give you this gift



(This post was last modified: 02-12-2014 04:25 PM by CliftonAve.)
02-12-2014 04:16 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
The only workaround for the GOR's is dissolution of the conference. We all know that it takes 8 votes for the Big 12 and 12 votes for the ACC. 8 is easier to obtain from a conference that has some disparity in it. But easier doesn't mean that it's likely. The only way realignment resumes is if 8 Big 12 schools find better homes and a lot more money. If anyone of us can figure out to make that happen with all of the egos, buddies that must tag a long, and network interests involved then you should be nominated to take Mark Emmert's place immediately.
02-12-2014 04:18 PM
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RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 04:16 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Correction: The conference exist as they do today because schools like Washington State, Wake Forest and a few others would sue if they were cut out of a P5 league.

Don't forget Baylor... they threatened that when it looked like the Big 12 was going to fold a couple years back.
02-12-2014 04:18 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 12:18 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 12:02 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The thing that makes the grant of rights so powerful is that it reverses things. Right now it's up to the conferences loosing members to try to sue and get what they can. Exit fees penalties or not, the courts are only willing to go so far there.

The grant of rights is the opposite though. A school can still leave as it sees fit, but the old conference retains control of the media rights. That means that if no agreement is reached, the school doesn't get them back till the end of the contract. Suing in this case is a lot less helpful to the school, because it doubtful a court is just going to outright give them back.

Essentially the school is taking away its earning power. Courts have never agreed on that deal.

Why wouldn't a court agree on that deal when it is the deal the school freely made?

I wouldn't want to be the lawyer for a school going before a judge to argue that "Yes, we signed this deal but please don't let that conference enforce such an unfair, unconscionable deal!".

If I were the judge I'd look at that lawyer like he was batsh*t crazy.
02-12-2014 04:26 PM
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RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 04:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Why wouldn't a court agree on that deal when it is the deal the school freely made?

I wouldn't want to be the lawyer for a school going before a judge to argue that "Yes, we signed this deal but please don't let that conference enforce such an unfair, unconscionable deal!".

If I were the judge I'd look at that lawyer like he was batsh*t crazy.

For the same reason why they don't uphold "non-compete" clauses that says you can't work in the same industry. Happens all the time. Pretty much every company has dropped the whole "non-compete" clause as part of hiring because it isn't enforceable. They've changed it to not allowing you to active seek out coworkers at your new job (but even that is a grey area as to whether it would hold up).
02-12-2014 04:29 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 02:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

03-lmfao Another Pitt fan trying to make a dig at UCONN, UC, and USF...

The reason why the P5s associate with those schools is because they've been in a conference with them for so long and no one is going to kick out a long existing P5 school. If all conference affiliations were wiped away, and the P5 were told to rebuild them based on who they really want, there would be changes (both between the P5 conferences and between the bottom tier P5 and top tier G5).

And let's face the facts: The only reason why Pitt is currently in a P5 is because UCONN pissed off too many schools, making Pitt the less controversial choice...but you can keep pretending it was your amazing college sports market and unrivaled athletic department that got you in.

Wrong. No one is trying to persecute your schools. The bottom line is they weren't invited. Logic dictates that your schools weren't invited because they were not wanted. No offense, but it's pretty plain.

A highly subjective paragraph that will never be proven because the scenario will never come about in the first place. Bottom line is that schools remain in conferences together because they want to associate with each other. Nothing prevented OSU, Michigan, PSU and the rest of the top half of the B1G from leaving the B1G to start a new conference with the top dogs from the other conferences. Despite the obvious advantages to do so, they chose not to. Why? Today, everything is locked down but it sure wasn't several years ago or even last year at this time. Strangely enough, these lower "dregs of the P5" like Wake, Indiana, Rutgers, Syracuse AND PITT (LOL) were thought of highly enough by the "more worthy" P5 schools to VOLUNTARILY sign GOR's... I wonder why...

I'm not pretending anything. UCONN fans continue to perpetuate a myth where UCONN was the clear cut choice TWICE for ACC membership, and where thwarted in the 11th hour by BC in round one and later by that sneaky Tom Jurich in round two. Sure. If you need to use that as a way to rationalize why other schools don't want to associate with UCONN, then have at it. Me? I think the answer is much simpler. UCONN FB has no tradition, is located in a poor recruiting ground and in a location that has little interest in college football. That is the primary reason why UCONN is not in a P5 conference today. But you UCONN fans start to look like fools whenever you start rationalizing by ticking off the list of 1) BC black balled us, 2) Syracuse is now blackballing us, 3) UL and Tom Jurich were sneaky and stole UCONN's "birthright", 4) PITT stole UCONN's "birthright", etc., etc... It gets old and makes your fanbase look stupid.
02-12-2014 04:32 PM
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Post: #75
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 04:32 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  I'm not pretending anything. UCONN fans continue to perpetuate a myth where UCONN was the clear cut choice TWICE for ACC membership, and where thwarted in the 11th hour by BC in round one and later by that sneaky Tom Jurich in round two. Sure. If you need to use that as a way to rationalize why other schools don't want to associate with UCONN, then have at it. Me? I think the answer is much simpler. UCONN FB has no tradition, is located in a poor recruiting ground and in a location that has little interest in college football. That is the primary reason why UCONN is not in a P5 conference today. But you UCONN fans start to look like fools whenever you start rationalizing by ticking off the list of 1) BC black balled us, 2) Syracuse is now blackballing us, 3) UL and Tom Jurich were sneaky and stole UCONN's "birthright", 4) PITT stole UCONN's "birthright", etc., etc... It gets old and makes your fanbase look stupid.

I actually pretty much agree with you. If UConn had been playing the highest level of college football back when the other eastern independents were, we'd be in a different situation.

UConn can't keep worrying about getting invited and being accepted by a P5 conference. UConn needs to recognize that it dominates a large market in which it has zero competition. It's revenue, at this point in time, is still higher than some P5 schools and far exceeds any other G5 schools.

UConn needs to recognize its worth, make sure that any future AAC deal provides some mechanism for UConn to maximize its revenue (same goes for other members), and get our football program going in the right direction, which we certainly have the resources to do. That's literally all UConn can really do.

Obviously they can keep talking to other conferences looking for an invite, and if one comes, great. I think our admins and state government are focused on the right things when it comes to keeping UConn as a high level athletic and academic institution.
02-12-2014 04:46 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 03:02 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 02:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

Those schools, most of them, have been in the same conferences for decades and decades. Originally founded based mainly on close geographical ties.

And this statement makes my point less relevant how? Let's take the B1G as an example. Since the majority of people believes that tradition is little more than fond memories that can be discarded, then why didn't OSU, Michigan, PSU, Wisconsin and the upper half of the B1G simply break apart and work with Texas, TAMU, OU, Kansas and Nebraska to put together a brand new conference that would have been a significant upgrade - athletically - for those involved? Hell, bring Okie St and Texas Tech along for the ride in order to lock down the big dogs from the Big XII and kick this party off 5 or 10 years ago??? It's because schools like OSU and Michigan STILL WANT TO ASSOCIATE with Minnesota and Indiana. The length of time they were together in a conference is meaningless. They could have easily gotten rid of the "lower tier schools" within the B1G and created a newer, better conference and then launched the BTN. Before you try to tell me that it was a different world back when the BTN first started and that conference realignment wasn't a consideration...spare me. Everyone has talked to everyone else about conference realignment scenarios for decades.

Bottom line is this: The conferences exist as they do today because the schools are content to associate with each other.

In essence, this is true.

However, the Big 10 was founded over 100 years ago. Times change and desirable partners change. 100 years ago, they would not have wanted Cincinnati because we were a smaller municipal school. Michigan State became more desirable after a great run in the 50s, so they were added.

Certain schools have become much more desirable over the past 100 years. Population movements have made schools like Utah, Arizona, UNC, and every school in Florida a lot more valuable. Improved academics have made schools increased the value of Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, USF, Georgia Tech, and others. Improved athletic performance has increased the value of schools like Michigan State, Boise, FSU, Miami, TCU, and others.

Similarly, many schools have seen a decrease in those metrics, and have seen their values decline accordingly. I won't name names because I don't really want to start that argument, but you know who you are (let's just say that many of them are in the Great Lakes region).
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2014 05:17 PM by Captain Bearcat.)
02-12-2014 05:14 PM
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C Marlow Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 05:14 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 03:02 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 02:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:58 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  There is a lot of hoping, wishing and praying by a few fans within this thread that GOR's can be easily ripped apart. Unfortunately, this will not be the case as indicated by a number of posters in this thread and a few other threads.

Do people really wonder why "lesser P5 schools" like Indiana, Purdue, Wake, Miss St, Iowa St, etc. are in P5 conferences while other "more worthy schools" like USF, UCF, UCONN, Cincy, etc are not? It's really, really simple. Schools like OSU, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, etc. WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH their current conference mates. Not only that, but almost every P5 school is HAPPY where they are right now!!! Supposedly GT, UVA and UNC were offered invites to join the B1G. Those schools said "no thanks", and then elected to sign a GOR and remain a part of the ACC... AFTER TELLING THE B1G NO THANK YOU.

As of today, the majority of the P5 conference schools do not want to rub elbows with Cincy, UCONN, USF, etc. These are voluntary associations. It's not like the B1G was sitting there all happy and content many years ago and some powerful, unstoppable entity FORCED them to take Indiana, Purdue, Illinois on as member schools or else... There are no conspiracies to keep schools down or to ruin schools out of fear of competition or anything like that. The bottom line is that schools are associating together in the different conferences because they WANT to be together.

Those schools, most of them, have been in the same conferences for decades and decades. Originally founded based mainly on close geographical ties.

And this statement makes my point less relevant how? Let's take the B1G as an example. Since the majority of people believes that tradition is little more than fond memories that can be discarded, then why didn't OSU, Michigan, PSU, Wisconsin and the upper half of the B1G simply break apart and work with Texas, TAMU, OU, Kansas and Nebraska to put together a brand new conference that would have been a significant upgrade - athletically - for those involved? Hell, bring Okie St and Texas Tech along for the ride in order to lock down the big dogs from the Big XII and kick this party off 5 or 10 years ago??? It's because schools like OSU and Michigan STILL WANT TO ASSOCIATE with Minnesota and Indiana. The length of time they were together in a conference is meaningless. They could have easily gotten rid of the "lower tier schools" within the B1G and created a newer, better conference and then launched the BTN. Before you try to tell me that it was a different world back when the BTN first started and that conference realignment wasn't a consideration...spare me. Everyone has talked to everyone else about conference realignment scenarios for decades.

Bottom line is this: The conferences exist as they do today because the schools are content to associate with each other.

In essence, this is true.

However, the Big 10 was founded over 100 years ago. Times change and desirable partners change. 100 years ago, they would not have wanted Cincinnati because we were a smaller municipal school. Michigan State became more desirable after a great run in the 50s, so they were added.

Certain schools have become much more desirable over the past 100 years. Population movements have made schools like Utah, Arizona, UNC, and every school in Florida a lot more valuable. Improved academics have made schools increased the value of Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, USF, Georgia Tech, and others. Improved athletic performance has increased the value of schools like Michigan State, Boise, FSU, Miami, TCU, and others.

Similarly, many schools have seen a decrease in those metrics, and have seen their values decline accordingly. I won't name names because I don't really want to start that argument, but you know who you are (let's just say that many of them are in the Great Lakes region).

By all means, name the schools you want to hurl stones at. Tell us which schools should be kicked out of the B1G, SEC, ACC, PAC and Big XII and which new schools should be added. Explain the metrics you are using and show us why you come to these conclusions.
02-12-2014 09:52 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
Marlow, nobody is getting kicked out of P5 conferences.
02-12-2014 10:17 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
The jealousy of Wake Forest is amazing.

Wake has more than paid it's dues in the Southern Conference and ACC since 1937.

What's more is that the core of the ACC LIKES WAKE FOREST and they have been a friend and partner of UNC and NC State for more than a century. When you lob an insult toward WF, you need to understand that you are also insulting the taste and sensibilities of UNC, NC State, Duke and to a lesser degree UVa and VT.
02-12-2014 10:17 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-12-2014 05:14 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Certain schools have become much more desirable over the past 100 years. Population movements have made schools like Utah, Arizona, UNC, and every school in Florida a lot more valuable. Improved academics have made schools increased the value of Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, USF, Georgia Tech, and others. Improved athletic performance has increased the value of schools like Michigan State, Boise, FSU, Miami, TCU, and others.

It's not just increased population. What's more important (especially to leagues like the Pac and Big Ten) is that the schools (along with the increased population) have become highly-regarded research universities. Look at where Utah and Arizona rank in ARWU or THE, for example.

Also, no increase in population is going to impart huge athletic value on schools that are too far down on their local/regional totem pole.
02-12-2014 10:19 PM
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