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Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
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HartfordHusky Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
I think UConn will play nice. Not that I buy that the other suit really is what's holding us back, but I doubt we'd repeat that course.
02-11-2014 05:02 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Online
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Post: #22
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
Once a case gets into litigation and the system anything can happen. Can't wait to see what discovery
tells us.
02-11-2014 05:15 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 04:10 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:06 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The B1G has no expansion candidates available that they'd want. So my point stands.

If Maryland loses their lawsuit then I'll agree... if Maryland wins, I think the Big 10 may find another couple schools in that area of the country.

I just don't see how this lawsuit matters at all. Supposedly, this is all about bazillions of dollars per minute, so why would a one-time difference of $30 million at the most have any bearing on the decision making process? Assuming the B1G gets you an extra $5 million a year in TV money, and you have a 10% required rate of return, then the TV revenue nets you an extra $50 million in capitalized value. So then all the other perks of being in the B1G would basically be free. And that is a worst case scenario.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 05:58 PM by JunkYardCard.)
02-11-2014 05:56 PM
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C Marlow Offline
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RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 04:49 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:36 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  Yes, some people speculate... But what this speculation fails to acknowledge, which btw is typical of people who try to gin up traffic to their sites, is the GOR. The GOR dwarfs the exit fee currently in place. Technically, it is no longer needed because there is a GOR in place.

Agreed. And it could be declared invalid if this goes to court. If it doesn't go to court, other schools could leave saying a precedent has been set lowering the penalty for breaking the GOR. Due to the knowledge that Maryland has, and the subpoenas filed on behalf of Maryland to UL, UM, Syracuse, BC, etc., I'm going to guess that is some damning evidence regarding the Big East breakup, Pitt's role, ESPN's role, etc... Maryland will get out cheap, it will set the precedent, and if other schools so choose to leave then they will do so at a steeply discounted rate.

Quote:Your side note: You drew this conclusion how? Did you ever stop to think that people get sick and tired of seeing the same recycled crap spewed over and over again without taking into account the actual course of events that took place over the past year? I'll refrain from commenting on your school and chalk it up to you exercising bad judgement for trying to rile someone up despite the fact that I made no insulting comments about your school, the AAC or the G5 for that matter.

Don't read this forum then. You most certainly did thumb your nose at the G5 claiming they all want the P5 to break up. Personally, I just wish some of the lesser P5 schools would admit that they are head and shoulders over those who didn't make it in. UC showed it is a great with the backing of a good conference. Hopefully in time it gets that backing again.

Again, it's pie in the sky thinking. We've been down this road before before UC joined the BE. Back then, UC and it's fans were doing backflips over the ACC taking UM, BC and VT. Being on the other side, you're looking for lawsuits... Pure hypocrisy. Bottom line is that conference affiliation is based on voluntary associations. If PITT, Syracuse, WVU, etc no longer cared to be in the BE, then there's not much you can do about it. It didn't work in 2005, it won't work now.

OK "officer MLB"... It's hypocritical to state that most G5 schools don't want to see anarchy reign in the P5 in order for UC, UCONN, USF, etc into different conferences. Don't deny it. Way too many G5 fans state it regularly. If anyone is obsessed with class warfare, it's you with all the talk about "lesser P5 schools", "greater G5's", etc...
02-11-2014 06:30 PM
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shocknawe Offline
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Post: #25
Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
Bit doesn't know ****
02-11-2014 07:25 PM
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Eagle78 Offline
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Post: #26
Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 04:53 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:39 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  With all due respect, your response is not logical. Whatever happens with the Maryland exit fee lawsuit, it has no bearing whatsoever on the GOR; and the financial impact to a departing school - even if it had to pay the full exit fee - is chump change compared to the impact of the GOR. Secondly, it should have become clear that UVA, GT, and UNC did not want to go to the BiG. If they did, don't you think that at least some of these schools would be there now in place of Maryland and/or Rutgers?

I'll go with what I've read in the Washington Post and other major newspapers. There is speculation out there that Maryland is about to expose interference by ESPN and the ACC that caused the Big East to break up. That would expose them to huge lawsuits by UConn, UC, and USF for tortious interference and the damages could be huge. Lots of what ifs... I'm not saying anything will happen. I'm just saying I'm not sold that the ACC GOR will matter come the end of this. My guess, the ACC settles for pennies on the dollar and, should UC, UConn, and USF not find their way to a bigger conference, more discovery filings happening in order to figure out if the ACC and/or ESPN was involved in damaging those 3 schools.

This is almost painful to read - utterly lacking in rationale and logic. "There is speculation out there that Maryland is about to expose interference by ESPN and the ACC that caused the Big East to break up"?? Really?? Where in God's name did you get that gem, as I have not seen one responsible news article that has inferred anything like that! Where is this "speculation" coming from - a WV blog? Just think about this for a minute: if what you infer was even remotely true, don't you think that the "victims" of such an act - specifically the remaining FB schools in the old BE - wouldn't have already filed suit? Well??

Maryland has filed a countersuit and initiated discovery. This is quite common in these types of cases and they are executing a smart stratgey. To infer however, or sign on to speculation that these tactics are a sign that Maryland is about to expose a giant criminal conspirary, is, IMO, insane. You have no basis whatsoever for this and have not even sourced where this speculation is coming from

I agree with the Pitt fan below. If you are a fan of a program that benefited from the 2003-4 BE defections to the ACC, it seems rather hypocritical for you to be taking the position you are now.
02-11-2014 07:30 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 04:53 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:39 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  With all due respect, your response is not logical. Whatever happens with the Maryland exit fee lawsuit, it has no bearing whatsoever on the GOR; and the financial impact to a departing school - even if it had to pay the full exit fee - is chump change compared to the impact of the GOR. Secondly, it should have become clear that UVA, GT, and UNC did not want to go to the BiG. If they did, don't you think that at least some of these schools would be there now in place of Maryland and/or Rutgers?

I'll go with what I've read in the Washington Post and other major newspapers. There is speculation out there that Maryland is about to expose interference by ESPN and the ACC that caused the Big East to break up. That would expose them to huge lawsuits by UConn, UC, and USF for tortious interference and the damages could be huge. Lots of what ifs...

USF, Cincy, and UConn would have no grounds for a lawsuit. The ACC was free to offer schools like Pitt and Syracuse membership.
02-11-2014 07:33 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 07:25 PM)shocknawe Wrote:  Bit doesn't know ****
I have no desire to. I flush **** down the toilet, and then forget about it.

From your words, I take it that you do know ****? Do you know **** intimately, or just by smell? 07-coffee3
02-11-2014 07:35 PM
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Eagle78 Offline
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Post: #29
Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
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(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 07:45 PM by Eagle78.)
02-11-2014 07:36 PM
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Eagle78 Offline
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Post: #30
Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
[/quote]

I'll go with what I've read in the Washington Post and other major newspapers. There is speculation out there that Maryland is about to expose interference by ESPN and the ACC that caused the Big East to break up. That would expose them to huge lawsuits by UConn, UC, and USF for tortious interference and the damages could be huge. Lots of what ifs... I'm not saying anything will happen. I'm just saying I'm not sold that the ACC GOR will matter come the end of this. My guess, the ACC settles for pennies on the dollar and, should UC, UConn, and USF not find their way to a bigger conference, more discovery filings happening in order to figure out if the ACC and/or ESPN was involved in damaging those 3 schools.
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

Sorry to be blunt, but this is almost painful to read - IMO, lacking in rationale and logic. "There is speculation out there that Maryland is about to expose interference by ESPN and the ACC that caused the Big East to break up"?? Really?? Where in God's name did you get that gem, as I have not seen one responsible news article that has inferred anything like that! Where is this "speculation" coming from - a WV blog maybe? Just think about this for a minute: if what you infer was even remotely true, don't you think that the "victims" of such an act - specifically the remaining FB schools in the old BE - wouldn't have already filed suit? Well??

BTW, Rutgers and WVU also left the BE as well. You are aware of that I assume?

Maryland has filed a countersuit and initiated discovery. This is quite common in these types of cases and they are executing a smart stratgey, IMO. To infer however, or sign on to speculation that these tactics are a sign that Maryland is about to expose a giant criminal conspirary, is, IMO, insane. You have no basis whatsoever for this and have not even sourced where this speculation is coming from

I agree with the Pitt fan above. If you are a fan of a program that benefited from the 2003-4 BE defections to the ACC, it seems rather hypocritical for you to be taking the position you are now.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 07:50 PM by Eagle78.)
02-11-2014 07:38 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
I think its unlikely the B1G wouldn't entertain 16 in a couple years when their TV deal is up- its why their logo is B1G - the 1G looks like a 16 - silly but utterly true (the B12 owns the Big 16 name).

So if not UConn, then who? I understand why they'd target UNC, VA and Georgia Tech - fantastic academic programs with football/multi-sport history in new markets. But I'm fairly convinced UNC is sticking with the ACC, and thus so will these other schools - Notre Dame sealed that for me.
02-11-2014 07:52 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 07:52 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  I think its unlikely the B1G wouldn't entertain 16 in a couple years when their TV deal is up- its why their logo is B1G - the 1G looks like a 16 - silly but utterly true (the B12 owns the Big 16 name).

So if not UConn, then who? I understand why they'd target UNC, VA and Georgia Tech - fantastic academic programs with football/multi-sport history in new markets. But I'm fairly convinced UNC is sticking with the ACC, and thus so will these other schools - Notre Dame sealed that for me.

Yes, 16 is the target point. There was talk of perhaps having to go past it but in the end that didn't happen. As for now, it is very unlikely the Big Ten ever goes past 16 and it is just as unlikely that they stay at 14 for very long.
02-11-2014 07:57 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 07:57 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:52 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  I think its unlikely the B1G wouldn't entertain 16 in a couple years when their TV deal is up- its why their logo is B1G - the 1G looks like a 16 - silly but utterly true (the B12 owns the Big 16 name).

So if not UConn, then who? I understand why they'd target UNC, VA and Georgia Tech - fantastic academic programs with football/multi-sport history in new markets. But I'm fairly convinced UNC is sticking with the ACC, and thus so will these other schools - Notre Dame sealed that for me.

Yes, 16 is the target point. There was talk of perhaps having to go past it but in the end that didn't happen. As for now, it is very unlikely the Big Ten ever goes past 16 and it is just as unlikely that they stay at 14 for very long.

They'll want and probably get two more prior to their contract being up in 2 years. I really do think that Kansas will be one of them. The question is who will be the other? A breakaway would solve a lot of timing issues and probably lead directly to a brokered settlement of realignment. Outside of that I think we will all be waiting because everybody wants the same slices of the Big 12 turkey and nobody wants the giblets.
02-11-2014 08:13 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 08:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:57 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:52 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  I think its unlikely the B1G wouldn't entertain 16 in a couple years when their TV deal is up- its why their logo is B1G - the 1G looks like a 16 - silly but utterly true (the B12 owns the Big 16 name).

So if not UConn, then who? I understand why they'd target UNC, VA and Georgia Tech - fantastic academic programs with football/multi-sport history in new markets. But I'm fairly convinced UNC is sticking with the ACC, and thus so will these other schools - Notre Dame sealed that for me.

Yes, 16 is the target point. There was talk of perhaps having to go past it but in the end that didn't happen. As for now, it is very unlikely the Big Ten ever goes past 16 and it is just as unlikely that they stay at 14 for very long.

They'll want and probably get two more prior to their contract being up in 2 years. I really do think that Kansas will be one of them. The question is who will be the other? A breakaway would solve a lot of timing issues and probably lead directly to a brokered settlement of realignment. Outside of that I think we will all be waiting because everybody wants the same slices of the Big 12 turkey and nobody wants the giblets.

I cant tell you who the other will be but I can tell you who it definitely won't be. Iowa State.

I can also tell you who it very likely won't be. UConn. Nothing against them but if the one is Kansas then the other HAS to have some football pedigree. The Big Ten isn't in a hurry yet.

What I do know is that for the most part, when these conference begin their little public dance..it is most often a bit of subterfuge. They really don't have any major interest in simply informing the public of their desires. If they are saying something publicly, it is generally to have another affect. The ACC talks about divisions isn't as simple as most folks think. It wasn't a big deal when it was just the Big 12 talking it but now that the ACC has chimed in, certain Networks will have to sit up a little bit straighter and take notice. They need to decide soon whether that is something they want to allow or whether they will Ante up and push a different agenda with their money.
02-11-2014 08:37 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 08:37 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 08:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:57 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:52 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  I think its unlikely the B1G wouldn't entertain 16 in a couple years when their TV deal is up- its why their logo is B1G - the 1G looks like a 16 - silly but utterly true (the B12 owns the Big 16 name).

So if not UConn, then who? I understand why they'd target UNC, VA and Georgia Tech - fantastic academic programs with football/multi-sport history in new markets. But I'm fairly convinced UNC is sticking with the ACC, and thus so will these other schools - Notre Dame sealed that for me.

Yes, 16 is the target point. There was talk of perhaps having to go past it but in the end that didn't happen. As for now, it is very unlikely the Big Ten ever goes past 16 and it is just as unlikely that they stay at 14 for very long.

They'll want and probably get two more prior to their contract being up in 2 years. I really do think that Kansas will be one of them. The question is who will be the other? A breakaway would solve a lot of timing issues and probably lead directly to a brokered settlement of realignment. Outside of that I think we will all be waiting because everybody wants the same slices of the Big 12 turkey and nobody wants the giblets.

I cant tell you who the other will be but I can tell you who it definitely won't be. Iowa State.

I can also tell you who it very likely won't be. UConn. Nothing against them but if the one is Kansas then the other HAS to have some football pedigree. The Big Ten isn't in a hurry yet.

What I do know is that for the most part, when these conference begin their little public dance..it is most often a bit of subterfuge. They really don't have any major interest in simply informing the public of their desires. If they are saying something publicly, it is generally to have another affect. The ACC talks about divisions isn't as simple as most folks think. It wasn't a big deal when it was just the Big 12 talking it but now that the ACC has chimed in, certain Networks will have to sit up a little bit straighter and take notice. They need to decide soon whether that is something they want to allow or whether they will Ante up and push a different agenda with their money.


Uh-huh, just like it was VERY LIKELY that UCONN was getting the invite that Louisville ultimitely got. Just admit your hatred of UCONN is the reason you say they very likely WON'T get a Big 10 invite. Simple as that.
02-11-2014 09:08 PM
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Post: #36
Re: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
I wish Cincy was AAU and didn't have to deal with OSU being greedy, same with Pitt market being "covered" by Penn State. Cincy and Pitt are my dream adds. UConn would be nice if Buffalo or UMass got good and built a huge following to add with them. I say the Big Ten pursues Virginia and UNC the most, so many school Presidents and the commish of the Big Ten come from those schools.

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02-11-2014 09:52 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 04:49 PM)mlb Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:36 PM)C Marlow Wrote:  Yes, some people speculate... But what this speculation fails to acknowledge, which btw is typical of people who try to gin up traffic to their sites, is the GOR. The GOR dwarfs the exit fee currently in place. Technically, it is no longer needed because there is a GOR in place.

Agreed. And it could be declared invalid if this goes to court. If it doesn't go to court, other schools could leave saying a precedent has been set lowering the penalty for breaking the GOR. Due to the knowledge that Maryland has, and the subpoenas filed on behalf of Maryland to UL, UM, Syracuse, BC, etc., I'm going to guess that is some damning evidence regarding the Big East breakup, Pitt's role, ESPN's role, etc... Maryland will get out cheap, it will set the precedent, and if other schools so choose to leave then they will do so at a steeply discounted rate.

Alright, I am sure this has been posted around here before, but a brief primer on GOR:

(1) A grant of rights (common in the media industry for decades and the validity of which is well established) is an irrevocable transfer of property rights. It is NOT a contract and therefore the unenforceable penalty line of common law does not apply. Pretty sure whoever the high powered lawyer was that originally thought up the GOR did it precisely to get around judges who do not like contract provisions acting as penalties (which have long been considered restraints on trade).

(2) A GOR cannot be 'broken' and there are no penalties associated with it. The schools' media rights were transferred to the conference the moment the GOR was executed - it is a done deal.

(3) The only way to invalidate the transfer of property would be to prove fraud or other wrongdoing. It is extremely unlikely that was present on either part of the conference or its 14 member schools. Furthermore, these are 15 highly sophisticated business entities all represented by very expensive counsel - no one was getting duped in this deal.

(4) Maryland's success or failure with its lawsuit will have absolutely no impact whatsoever on the validity of the ACC's or any other conference's GOR. Even if Maryland wins on all counts (blows the ACC's $52m exit fee out of the water and wins millions in counterclaims), the ACC GOR of rights will remain unchanged. The only hurdle removed for any other schools thinking about leaving is the exit fee - they would still be leaving all of their media rights behind with the ACC.

Sorry for the long post, but I think there are a lot of misconceptions concerning GOR because they are relatively new to the realignment game (even though some conferences have had them for years, I suspect they were not talked about much). These have been in place a very long time in other industries and they are virtually impossible to undo. Unless a school does not care about leaving behind its media rights, the ACC, B12, B10 and PAC do not have to worry about being poached until their GOR expire (or maybe a year or so before depending on how much money a school might be willing to leave behind).
02-11-2014 11:02 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 09:52 PM)DexterDevil Wrote:  I wish Cincy was AAU and didn't have to deal with OSU being greedy, same with Pitt market being "covered" by Penn State. Cincy and Pitt are my dream adds. UConn would be nice if Buffalo or UMass got good and built a huge following to add with them. I say the Big Ten pursues Virginia and UNC the most, so many school Presidents and the commish of the Big Ten come from those schools.

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Dex the ACC is NC ACC, don't see that. I say Big looks for VaTech, UVA, GTech first. Atlanta is a big market. For travel and oly sports Cincy and Ville would have been great adds.
02-11-2014 11:19 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 09:08 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 08:37 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 08:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:57 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:52 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  I think its unlikely the B1G wouldn't entertain 16 in a couple years when their TV deal is up- its why their logo is B1G - the 1G looks like a 16 - silly but utterly true (the B12 owns the Big 16 name).

So if not UConn, then who? I understand why they'd target UNC, VA and Georgia Tech - fantastic academic programs with football/multi-sport history in new markets. But I'm fairly convinced UNC is sticking with the ACC, and thus so will these other schools - Notre Dame sealed that for me.

Yes, 16 is the target point. There was talk of perhaps having to go past it but in the end that didn't happen. As for now, it is very unlikely the Big Ten ever goes past 16 and it is just as unlikely that they stay at 14 for very long.

They'll want and probably get two more prior to their contract being up in 2 years. I really do think that Kansas will be one of them. The question is who will be the other? A breakaway would solve a lot of timing issues and probably lead directly to a brokered settlement of realignment. Outside of that I think we will all be waiting because everybody wants the same slices of the Big 12 turkey and nobody wants the giblets.

I cant tell you who the other will be but I can tell you who it definitely won't be. Iowa State.

I can also tell you who it very likely won't be. UConn. Nothing against them but if the one is Kansas then the other HAS to have some football pedigree. The Big Ten isn't in a hurry yet.

What I do know is that for the most part, when these conference begin their little public dance..it is most often a bit of subterfuge. They really don't have any major interest in simply informing the public of their desires. If they are saying something publicly, it is generally to have another affect. The ACC talks about divisions isn't as simple as most folks think. It wasn't a big deal when it was just the Big 12 talking it but now that the ACC has chimed in, certain Networks will have to sit up a little bit straighter and take notice. They need to decide soon whether that is something they want to allow or whether they will Ante up and push a different agenda with their money.


Uh-huh, just like it was VERY LIKELY that UCONN was getting the invite that Louisville ultimitely got. Just admit your hatred of UCONN is the reason you say they very likely WON'T get a Big 10 invite. Simple as that.

Why would I hate UConn?
02-12-2014 12:47 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Tom DIenhart: UConn not on Big Ten radar, locked out of a major conference
(02-11-2014 08:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:57 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 07:52 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  I think its unlikely the B1G wouldn't entertain 16 in a couple years when their TV deal is up- its why their logo is B1G - the 1G looks like a 16 - silly but utterly true (the B12 owns the Big 16 name).

So if not UConn, then who? I understand why they'd target UNC, VA and Georgia Tech - fantastic academic programs with football/multi-sport history in new markets. But I'm fairly convinced UNC is sticking with the ACC, and thus so will these other schools - Notre Dame sealed that for me.

Yes, 16 is the target point. There was talk of perhaps having to go past it but in the end that didn't happen. As for now, it is very unlikely the Big Ten ever goes past 16 and it is just as unlikely that they stay at 14 for very long.

They'll want and probably get two more prior to their contract being up in 2 years. I really do think that Kansas will be one of them. The question is who will be the other? A breakaway would solve a lot of timing issues and probably lead directly to a brokered settlement of realignment. Outside of that I think we will all be waiting because everybody wants the same slices of the Big 12 turkey and nobody wants the giblets.

04-bow I agree. Big Ten adds two more schools in the next two years because of the contract renewal. Who? Kansas and Virginia Tech...one good BB and one good football program.
02-12-2014 12:59 AM
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