(12-17-2013 05:44 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Well she was treated like an American citizen. Illegals are not subject to such treatment as a protected class.

FIFY

(12-17-2013 06:53 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  This looks like we F-ed up and India is justified with their actions.

Look, even if they are justified in being upset, even if you look at the situation in the worst light, any country that retaliates about something so trivial by removing barriers from a US embassy is playing with fire. If we had leaders with testicles, an action like that would blow up immediately. We cannot tolerate that. **** them and their little tantrums.

Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

(12-19-2013 09:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

Eh, nothing will happen and she'll go home.

Sad thing is that housekeeper will now be out of a job.

(12-19-2013 09:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

Would you expect to go to war? Sink ships? There is certainly an appropriate response that should be done (not the least of which is dressing down your own diplomat if she's engaging in slave labor). But, pulling barriers off of US embassies is a red line, IMHO, and that can't be tolerated. I'd expel the Indian ambassador before I'd apologize under those circumstances. Our president has no doubt grabbed his ankles once again.

(12-19-2013 12:25 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 09:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

Would you expect to go to war? Sink ships? There is certainly an appropriate response that should be done (not the least of which is dressing down your own diplomat if she's engaging in slave labor). But, pulling barriers off of US embassies is a red line, IMHO, and that can't be tolerated. I'd expel the Indian ambassador before I'd apologize under those circumstances. Our president has no doubt grabbed his ankles once again.

I'm sorry has India fired on any of our ships? Am I to deal with your straw man here?

India removed barricades in front of our embassy. The barricades were a courtesy and sat in Indian soil. ANd if one of our female embassy staff was molested overseas I would think something like this would be a good place to start

(12-19-2013 02:07 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 12:25 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 09:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

Would you expect to go to war? Sink ships? There is certainly an appropriate response that should be done (not the least of which is dressing down your own diplomat if she's engaging in slave labor). But, pulling barriers off of US embassies is a red line, IMHO, and that can't be tolerated. I'd expel the Indian ambassador before I'd apologize under those circumstances. Our president has no doubt grabbed his ankles once again.

I'm sorry has India fired on any of our ships? Am I to deal with your straw man here?

India removed barricades in front of our embassy. The barricades were a courtesy and sat in Indian soil. ANd if one of our female embassy staff was molested overseas I would think something like this would be a good place to start

I think the barriers are part of some sort of agreement between nations with regard to embassies to do with safety, etc.

Also, not sure strip search equates to molestation.

I think this comes basically down to differing and conflicting cultural faux pas. The US wants the lady to pay her servant more than she is going to be paid and more that what the servant would be paid in India, a lot more. It's the law here so I guess that rules. However, I don't agree she should have been stripped searched. She was being charged with fraud, not transporting drugs, etc.

(12-17-2013 07:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(12-17-2013 05:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Yup... India

I have to say, the treatment of the Indian official is nothing short of outrageous.

You can't be serious. She treated her employee like a slave on US soil and lied on her visa application. She got what she deserved, and as she does NOT have diplomatic immunity, will probably end up in prison. India can go stuff themselves.

For the first time ever, I completely agree with you.

(12-19-2013 02:07 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 12:25 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 09:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

Would you expect to go to war? Sink ships? There is certainly an appropriate response that should be done (not the least of which is dressing down your own diplomat if she's engaging in slave labor). But, pulling barriers off of US embassies is a red line, IMHO, and that can't be tolerated. I'd expel the Indian ambassador before I'd apologize under those circumstances. Our president has no doubt grabbed his ankles once again.

I'm sorry has India fired on any of our ships? Am I to deal with your straw man here?

India removed barricades in front of our embassy. The barricades were a courtesy and sat in Indian soil. ANd if one of our female embassy staff was molested overseas I would think something like this would be a good place to start

I didn't say you did... I just asked the rhetorical question to try to point out that there have to be reasonable limits on how a country reacts to such an incident. Generally, it is like for like reprisals.

For me, those barricades are a security obligation, especially in a country that has seen foreign hotels bombed along with its own parliament, has a high muslim population and is neighboring countries where the US has fought Islamic militants. It's a big **** you to this country, and it's not how a purported ally should systematically react to a one-off incident.

This is absolutely not a good place to start with countries that you do not have an adversarial relationship with. It shows no level of trust and makes the Indian leadership look bush league.

(12-19-2013 02:24 PM)VA49er Wrote:  I think the barriers are part of some sort of agreement between nations with regard to embassies to do with safety, etc.

Still not the same as a brazen offensive act and certainly not the same as an act of war.

Quote:Also, not sure strip search equates to molestation.

If your daughter was arrested for a civil non violent offense and was on the receiving end of a strip search you would feel differently.

Quote:I think this comes basically down to differing and conflicting cultural faux pas.

No this is her getting treated like an American which is the real shame here. Were this an American citizen nobody would say bump even though it's clearly an out of control use of police power.

Quote:The US wants the lady to pay her servant more than she is going to be paid and more that what the servant would be paid in India, a lot more.

Which I have no issue with. Nobody has said otherwise if she was underpaying revoke her papers and demand she leave the nation. If this was an American citizen I would not want them to be treated in this manner.

Quote:It's the law here so I guess that rules. However, I don't agree she should have been stripped searched. She was being charged with fraud, not transporting drugs, etc.

And there is the outrage. If our law enforcement agencies were acting as peace officers only her deportation for non paying a servant enough would not be news worthy.

(12-19-2013 03:42 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 02:07 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 12:25 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 09:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

Would you expect to go to war? Sink ships? There is certainly an appropriate response that should be done (not the least of which is dressing down your own diplomat if she's engaging in slave labor). But, pulling barriers off of US embassies is a red line, IMHO, and that can't be tolerated. I'd expel the Indian ambassador before I'd apologize under those circumstances. Our president has no doubt grabbed his ankles once again.

I'm sorry has India fired on any of our ships? Am I to deal with your straw man here?

India removed barricades in front of our embassy. The barricades were a courtesy and sat in Indian soil. ANd if one of our female embassy staff was molested overseas I would think something like this would be a good place to start

I didn't say you did... I just asked the rhetorical question to try to point out that there have to be reasonable limits on how a country reacts to such an incident. Generally, it is like for like reprisals.

So what they should arrest one of our staff for a minor offense and molest her?

At least India doesn't have nuclear weapons, right John Kerry? (who has the power to start wars)

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/16/did-yo...ohn-kerry/

(12-19-2013 03:53 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 03:42 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 02:07 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 12:25 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 09:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Hey if one of our female embassy staff members was arrested and strip searched for a non violent offense I would *certainly* want our government to go to the mat on it..

It's the "broken window" theory of diplomacy..

Would you expect to go to war? Sink ships? There is certainly an appropriate response that should be done (not the least of which is dressing down your own diplomat if she's engaging in slave labor). But, pulling barriers off of US embassies is a red line, IMHO, and that can't be tolerated. I'd expel the Indian ambassador before I'd apologize under those circumstances. Our president has no doubt grabbed his ankles once again.

I'm sorry has India fired on any of our ships? Am I to deal with your straw man here?

India removed barricades in front of our embassy. The barricades were a courtesy and sat in Indian soil. ANd if one of our female embassy staff was molested overseas I would think something like this would be a good place to start

I didn't say you did... I just asked the rhetorical question to try to point out that there have to be reasonable limits on how a country reacts to such an incident. Generally, it is like for like reprisals.

So what they should arrest one of our staff for a minor offense and molest her?

If the Indians think they'd get the situation resolved that way, then so be it. It's hard to conceive how India could get better results than in simply talking to the US in stern terms. It's not an incident that's likely to be repeated, and it's not something that can be undone. What are they really trying to accomplish?

******* with the security of US territory has to be a red line, and it would set a bad precedent elsewhere in the world if that is not addressed firmly.

As for like-for-like reprisals, it's certainly not unheard of...

BBC News - Dutch diplomat attacked in Russia

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24545441 Wrote:The diplomat, named by Russian media as Onno Elderenbosch, was reportedly tied up by men posing as electricians. Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans said the diplomat had been lightly wounded. He added that he had summoned the Russian ambassador. Mr Timmermans apologised last week after a Russian diplomat was arrested. Dmitri Borodin was held for several hours on suspicion of mistreating his two young children, prompting President Vladimir Putin to demand the Dutch apology.