(11-25-2013 08:57 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 03:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The whole terrified of Iran deal is a waste of time for the U.S..

Iran wants the weapons because then it can force us to listen to them. The problem is with us, and when it comes to Iran it always has been.

Similarly, Saddam Hussein expressed his biggest regrets that he had not waited until he had a nuclear weapon prior to invading Kuwait. Sometimes, it's not that we should be concerned that Iran wishes us to listen, it's that we should be concerned about what it has to say. Besides, should we really cower and concede when some other nation wishes to force us to do something (whether listen, or make billions of dollars of concessions to its economy, or something else)? If we buckle so easily when they have no leverage, what does that say about what we'll do when they are in position to force us to listen?

I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

(11-25-2013 02:25 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Selling nuclear missiles to the middle east might become a cottage industry. We could trade our Nuclear missiles for their oil.

We could give them free nuclear warheads for their oil. The only catch is they are coming in at Mach 2.

(11-25-2013 02:12 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 08:57 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 03:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The whole terrified of Iran deal is a waste of time for the U.S..

Iran wants the weapons because then it can force us to listen to them. The problem is with us, and when it comes to Iran it always has been.

Similarly, Saddam Hussein expressed his biggest regrets that he had not waited until he had a nuclear weapon prior to invading Kuwait. Sometimes, it's not that we should be concerned that Iran wishes us to listen, it's that we should be concerned about what it has to say. Besides, should we really cower and concede when some other nation wishes to force us to do something (whether listen, or make billions of dollars of concessions to its economy, or something else)? If we buckle bso easily when they have no leverage, what does that say about what we'll do when they are in position to force us to listen?

I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

Appeasing from a position of weakness is not the answer either. We should make NO APOLOGY IS REQUIRED. GET THAT.

(11-25-2013 02:19 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:12 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 08:57 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 03:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The whole terrified of Iran deal is a waste of time for the U.S..

Iran wants the weapons because then it can force us to listen to them. The problem is with us, and when it comes to Iran it always has been.

Similarly, Saddam Hussein expressed his biggest regrets that he had not waited until he had a nuclear weapon prior to invading Kuwait. Sometimes, it's not that we should be concerned that Iran wishes us to listen, it's that we should be concerned about what it has to say. Besides, should we really cower and concede when some other nation wishes to force us to do something (whether listen, or make billions of dollars of concessions to its economy, or something else)? If we buckle bso easily when they have no leverage, what does that say about what we'll do when they are in position to force us to listen?

I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

Appeasing from a position of weakness is not the answer either. We should make NO APOLOGY IS REQUIRED. GET THAT.

Maybe you're right. Supporting oppression and murder for our own interests shouldn't be an issue. They should just "get over" it huh?

This isn't about dick measuring with Iran as Americans seem to think it is.

(11-25-2013 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:19 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:12 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 08:57 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 03:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The whole terrified of Iran deal is a waste of time for the U.S..

Iran wants the weapons because then it can force us to listen to them. The problem is with us, and when it comes to Iran it always has been.

Similarly, Saddam Hussein expressed his biggest regrets that he had not waited until he had a nuclear weapon prior to invading Kuwait. Sometimes, it's not that we should be concerned that Iran wishes us to listen, it's that we should be concerned about what it has to say. Besides, should we really cower and concede when some other nation wishes to force us to do something (whether listen, or make billions of dollars of concessions to its economy, or something else)? If we buckle bso easily when they have no leverage, what does that say about what we'll do when they are in position to force us to listen?

I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

Appeasing from a position of weakness is not the answer either. We should make NO APOLOGY IS REQUIRED. GET THAT.

Maybe you're right. Supporting oppression and murder for our own interests shouldn't be an issue. They should just "get over" it huh?

This isn't about dick measuring with Iran as Americans seem to think it is.

Yes they should. They participate in state sponsored murder, but you'll just give them a pass on that. They have committed acts of war and atrocities the likes of which will continue as long as people like yourself are willing to turn their heads and bow to their propaganda. Appeasers‎ need to wake up and smell what they are shoveling.

(11-25-2013 02:36 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:19 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:12 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 08:57 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Similarly, Saddam Hussein expressed his biggest regrets that he had not waited until he had a nuclear weapon prior to invading Kuwait. Sometimes, it's not that we should be concerned that Iran wishes us to listen, it's that we should be concerned about what it has to say. Besides, should we really cower and concede when some other nation wishes to force us to do something (whether listen, or make billions of dollars of concessions to its economy, or something else)? If we buckle bso easily when they have no leverage, what does that say about what we'll do when they are in position to force us to listen?

I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

Appeasing from a position of weakness is not the answer either. We should make NO APOLOGY IS REQUIRED. GET THAT.

Maybe you're right. Supporting oppression and murder for our own interests shouldn't be an issue. They should just "get over" it huh?

This isn't about dick measuring with Iran as Americans seem to think it is.

Yes they should. They participate in state sponsored murder, but you'll just give them a pass on that. They have committed acts of war and atrocities the likes of which will continue as long as people like yourself are willing to turn their heads and bow to their propaganda. Appeasers‎ need to wake up and smell what they are shoveling.

Just put that all on a timeline there friend.

We support a despot who murders and oppresses his own people. We then oust a democratically elected PM of theirs to serve our own interests. We put the murderous oppressor back in charge, twice. Then he finally gets overthrown and Iran goes after us, sponsoring terror and the works.

You want to assign blame? Try it.

(11-25-2013 02:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:36 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:19 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:12 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

Appeasing from a position of weakness is not the answer either. We should make NO APOLOGY IS REQUIRED. GET THAT.

Maybe you're right. Supporting oppression and murder for our own interests shouldn't be an issue. They should just "get over" it huh?

This isn't about dick measuring with Iran as Americans seem to think it is.

Yes they should. They participate in state sponsored murder, but you'll just give them a pass on that. They have committed acts of war and atrocities the likes of which will continue as long as people like yourself are willing to turn their heads and bow to their propaganda. Appeasers‎ need to wake up and smell what they are shoveling.

Just put that all on a timeline there friend.

We support a despot who murders and oppresses his own people. We then oust a democratically elected PM of theirs to serve our own interests. We put the murderous oppressor back in charge, twice. Then he finally gets overthrown and Iran goes after us, sponsoring terror and the works.

You want to assign blame? Try it.

I blame Jimmy Carter. Iran supported the extermination of Jews during WWII. Their side lost.

Yea, that what I thought.

The US has been in a defacto War with Iran since 1979. Remember that. We should have let the Shah kill Khomenhi when he was in France.

(11-25-2013 02:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Just put that all on a timeline there friend.

We support a despot who murders and oppresses his own people. We then oust a democratically elected PM of theirs to serve our own interests. We put the murderous oppressor back in charge, twice. Then he finally gets overthrown and Iran goes after us, sponsoring terror and the works.

You want to assign blame? Try it.

I can concede that our actions with regards to Iran circa 1950-1979 are not exactly commendable.

However, the notion that all of the leaders that the US had a hand in deposing were beneficent leaders is something of a fallacy, because the list of modern-era beneficent leaders in the Arab/Persian countries stands at:

Now, as for the regime that calls the US "The Great Satan" (BTW, the same genocidal regime that came to power on the strength of its leftist allies that they then deposed/murdered/repressed)? Yes, it takes someone with the character of Obama and Kerry to defer to that regime. BTW, the democratic election of the Iranian leadership is such an important issue that they have not tried it since Mosaddegh.

The people of Iran deserve better than the Religious/Military leadership that they have suffered since 1979. But there's no virtue in acting in ways that entrench that regime's power both internally and in the region. If supporting the shah yields four decades of hatred and resentment, what does dealing with this regime yield?

(11-26-2013 02:42 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:39 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Just put that all on a timeline there friend.

We support a despot who murders and oppresses his own people. We then oust a democratically elected PM of theirs to serve our own interests. We put the murderous oppressor back in charge, twice. Then he finally gets overthrown and Iran goes after us, sponsoring terror and the works.

You want to assign blame? Try it.

I can concede that our actions with regards to Iran circa 1950-1979 are not exactly commendable.

However, the notion that all of the leaders that the US had a hand in deposing were beneficent leaders is something of a fallacy, because the list of modern-era beneficent leaders in the Arab/Persian countries stands at:

Now, as for the regime that calls the US "The Great Satan" (BTW, the same genocidal regime that came to power on the strength of its leftist allies that they then deposed/murdered/repressed)? Yes, it takes someone with the character of Obama and Kerry to defer to that regime. BTW, the democratic election of the Iranian leadership is such an important issue that they have not tried it since Mosaddegh.

The people of Iran deserve better than the Religious/Military leadership that they have suffered since 1979. But there's no virtue in acting in ways that entrench that regime's power both internally and in the region. If supporting the shah yields four decades of hatred and resentment, what does dealing with this regime yield?

I don't disagree that they are a problem, our enemy, or that the Iranian people deserve better.

The thing is, a government, no matter how odd, is almost always a product of the circumstances that witnessed its creation. The Iranian government is a great example.

The only way to deal with Iran is to shift the whole paradigm. Our attempts over the last 30 years have failed. It's about time we realize that and quit wasting time.

(11-25-2013 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:19 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:12 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 08:57 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(11-24-2013 03:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The whole terrified of Iran deal is a waste of time for the U.S..

Iran wants the weapons because then it can force us to listen to them. The problem is with us, and when it comes to Iran it always has been.

Similarly, Saddam Hussein expressed his biggest regrets that he had not waited until he had a nuclear weapon prior to invading Kuwait. Sometimes, it's not that we should be concerned that Iran wishes us to listen, it's that we should be concerned about what it has to say. Besides, should we really cower and concede when some other nation wishes to force us to do something (whether listen, or make billions of dollars of concessions to its economy, or something else)? If we buckle bso easily when they have no leverage, what does that say about what we'll do when they are in position to force us to listen?

I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

Appeasing from a position of weakness is not the answer either. We should make NO APOLOGY IS REQUIRED. GET THAT.

Maybe you're right. Supporting oppression and murder for our own interests shouldn't be an issue. They should just "get over" it huh?

This isn't about dick measuring with Iran as Americans seem to think it is.

SOAF should be measuring dicks with anyone. He would lose.

(11-26-2013 02:46 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:19 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 02:12 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-25-2013 08:57 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Similarly, Saddam Hussein expressed his biggest regrets that he had not waited until he had a nuclear weapon prior to invading Kuwait. Sometimes, it's not that we should be concerned that Iran wishes us to listen, it's that we should be concerned about what it has to say. Besides, should we really cower and concede when some other nation wishes to force us to do something (whether listen, or make billions of dollars of concessions to its economy, or something else)? If we buckle bso easily when they have no leverage, what does that say about what we'll do when they are in position to force us to listen?

I think we put ourselves in a spot that stands completely opposed to everything our nation is supposed to stand for if we find ourselves choosing between listening and conceding.

I do agree though that we most likely don't want to listen because we don't want to hear what is going to be said.

We wronged that country for decades, from support of the Shah, to ousting Mussodeq(SP), to waging a campaign against the Islamic Republic who felt wronged because of the other things we did.

We don't want to listen because we don't want to face our own hypocrisy.

Now, I'm not one of those types that blames everything on America and talks about how bad we are but the cold fact of the matter when it comes to the Islamic world is that we are even worse than most have ever considered. I've seen it first hand and it's very obvious that our own actions have brought about the issues we face in the Islamic world.

Appeasing from a position of weakness is not the answer either. We should make NO APOLOGY IS REQUIRED. GET THAT.

Maybe you're right. Supporting oppression and murder for our own interests shouldn't be an issue. They should just "get over" it huh?

This isn't about dick measuring with Iran as Americans seem to think it is.

SOAF should be measuring dicks with anyone. He would lose.

Roberta, Stop, I'm not going to give you any of my sperm. No matter how obnoxious you get.

You can't "deal" with Iran. Sadly, we have learned nothing from North Korea.