(11-14-2013 03:31 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it will continue to drop until parents realize the head injury issue is not unique to football.

There is no evidence that it exists in any other sport. The only one worth questioning is soccer. Even if there is a
Robles in soccer, eliminating headers would be a way to reform soccer while still allowing the sport to continue. There is no way to reform football to eliminate brain injury and keep anything that would resemble the current sport.

Ummm, that's simply not true. Another poster has posted proof to the contrary.

(11-13-2013 08:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:24 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think it will continue to drop until parents realize the head injury issue is not unique to football.

It's not Unique to football, true. But does anyone honestly deny that head & spinal injuries are more common in football than (say) rowing, or basketball, or tennis, or baseball?

Head and neck injuries in baseball usually occur at home plate, and against the walls in the outfield and down the foul lines. High inside fastballs can be an entirely different matter. But from a standpoint of playing it is still the greatest game ever invented. I do understand why its pace isn't as popular as it was in the less electronic age.

Has anyone ever been sitting in a basketball venue when someone goes up high for a lay up or rebound and gets their legs cut out from under them? The sound of the back of a skull smashing on a hard wood floor is very sickening as well. It's not just football.

(11-14-2013 03:41 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 09:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/99021...l-athletes

Reported H.S. Concussion Rates

Rates per 10,000 athletic exposures, as reported by athletic trainers, by sport:


Sport

Boys

Girls


Football 11.2 NA
Lacrosse 6.9 5.2
Soccer 4.2 6.7
Wrestling 6.2 NA
Basketball 2.8 5.6
Field Hockey NA 4.2
Softball NA 1.6
Baseball 1.2 NA

Source: National Academy of Sciences, Datalys Center (2010-

But the problem in football is far greater than diagnosed concussions.

11.2 out of 10,000.... you have a higher chance getting a concussion in a car accident... I am not trying state that the risk is not real, but everyone knows this stuff going in... whether it is football or skateboarding. You cant be a boxer or football player and later play the unsuspecting victim... danger comes with the money.

I believe soccer will eventually will replace football in the long run, people thought baseball would never be supplanted as the number 1 past time....eventually football will be to. As people get turned off with the injuries and life long repercussions. Also I think the college conference commissioners, ESPN along with the University Presidents who have no concept of college sports rivalry traditions, are hastening that day by destroying traditional intra-state and regional rivalries. In fact I believe starting to happen now wth gameday attendance on a downward trend and tv viewership being mixed. Here's 2 good url's if interested

http://www.statefansnation.com/2012/12/c...hip-mixed/

http://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2012/12/1...ot-theirs/

(11-14-2013 12:24 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I believe soccer will eventually will replace football in the long run, people thought baseball would never be supplanted as the number 1 past time....eventually football will be to. As people get turned off with the injuries and life long repercussions. Also I think the college conference commissioners, ESPN along with the University Presidents who have no concept of college sports rivalry traditions, are hastening that day by destroying traditional intra-state and regional rivalries.

That may end up being true but I'd hate to see that happen out of pure ignorance of the fact that soccer also caries a serious risk of injury with life long repercussions.

The truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as a safe sport.

My son is in high school and LOVES football and has played since the 4th or 5th grade, but he has had his share of injuries, to inlcude at least one severe concussion and probably more. He had to sit out part of this season with concussion symptoms (He still made all district!). He had teammates in the same boat. This does concern me, although not enough to pull him out at this time, but we definitely monitor it. If it continued to be a problem, we'd give serious thought to pulling him out altogether.

They ought to just force every kid to sit down with their parents at a team meeting at the Pee-Wee, and one more time in high school and just lay out the facts concerning head injuries and such and let parents and kids make their own decision.

(11-14-2013 03:35 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 07:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 06:19 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 05:43 PM)stever20 Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page...sal-factor

Just saw this. Pop Warner seen a 9.5% drop in participation the last 2 years. Have to think a primary reason of course are the head injuries. a lot of parents just aren't going to allow their kids to play football.

It will be interesting to see if these drops continue over the next 5-10 years. If so, how does that impact other sports- instead of an athlete going into football, do they go to baseball or basketball instead? How will that impact the entire dynamic of all sports.

This is the issue the football powers, both college and pro, need to address. The problem is they cannot say they have solved the brain trauma problem because they do not understand it yet.

If it turns out little, regular hits to the head during normal play cause brain trauma then football is finished. If only the big shots, hitting the turf, etc. causes it then it can be saved. We do not really know at this point.

I am certainly not claiming that what I'm about to say solves the head trauma issue, but it will certainly help. When I played chin straps were tightened to prevent the head from rattling around inside a loose fitting helmet. Proper technique was taught for applying a hit. We were taught never to dip our heads before an impact and preferably to strike the waist or slightly above or below it. We didn't grab ankles unless we were already too low to strike the waist. We never went head first for the knees and we didn't tackle high.

I think many injuries could be prevented if the players were required to strap that helmet on properly and tackle correctly. It certainly won't solve the whole problem but it would help. There is little excuse for so many helmets to fly off.

Head trauma is a part of soccer too. It will not be the panacea sport of choice. I guess if parents want their kids to be reasonably safe, yet well conditioned, tennis would be the choice. The truth is no sport is safe because life isn't safe. That's why none of us get out of it alive. I just don't want to see Big Brother telling us what we can do. Let me assume the risk and let me pay for it with my insurance so that the government can't sneak its claim upon my life through their programs.

I paid for football with a nasty case of heat exhaustion (bordering on heat stroke / yes I played when only sissy's needed water at practice) and a knee. I would play again if I had my life to live over (only I wouldn't take salt tablets and I would insist on water or a sports drink).

Bicycling, surfing, snowboarding, skiing, motocross, equestrian, volleyball and rodeo can be added among many other sports to those causing brain trauma.

You need to go to PBS.org and watch the Front Line special. Tightening chin straps has nothing to do with the brain injuries we are seeing. This is a totally different issue than any other risk of injury. It's not like chronic joint and back issues. Brain injury not only shortens lives, it completely robs a person of who he is, his very identity. To dismiss that as lightly as you have shows a lack of appreciation of the problem.

No Melky I don't lack an appreciation of the problem, and didn't really suggest that. But wearing your equipment improperly doesn't maximize its protective function. Improper technique does lead to more injuries. Did you play?

I'm not sure how you reform football. Everyone is keying on the concussions issues. That's not believed to be the true smoking gun that has been affecting the athletes. It's the repeated trauma that the brain is exposed to over time as a result of collisions within the sport. Trying to find the right helmet or teaching proper technique for blocking/tackling (though good for preventing injury) will not address the true root cause. Even without the concussions, the brain is still being damaged. That's the real issue going on and it will be the undoing of the sport. I don't think it will ever cease to exist, but it will be marginalized over time to the point where only the desperate play the sport - like boxing is today.

(11-14-2013 12:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 12:24 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I believe soccer will eventually will replace football in the long run, people thought baseball would never be supplanted as the number 1 past time....eventually football will be to. As people get turned off with the injuries and life long repercussions. Also I think the college conference commissioners, ESPN along with the University Presidents who have no concept of college sports rivalry traditions, are hastening that day by destroying traditional intra-state and regional rivalries.

That may end up being true but I'd hate to see that happen out of pure ignorance of the fact that soccer also caries a serious risk of injury with life long repercussions.

The truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as a safe sport.

If that is really going to happen, I think that Rugby will rise more in popularity. Not the Rugby Union but the Rugby League rules (less players, more up tempo than 'Union', field is more like the American). The tackles are different and with no head gear (some has like the leather covers) no concussions as would in football.

I played football during recesses in elementary school but didn't play until I was Jr. High. I know some places around the country are different but I don't see the reason to play at such a young age and risk the injury in a high impact sport.

(11-14-2013 01:36 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I'm not sure how you reform football. Everyone is keying on the concussions issues. That's not believed to be the true smoking gun that has been affecting the athletes. It's the repeated trauma that the brain is exposed to over time as a result of collisions within the sport. Trying to find the right helmet or teaching proper technique for blocking/tackling (though good for preventing injury) will not address the true root cause. Even without the concussions, the brain is still being damaged. That's the real issue going on and it will be the undoing of the sport. I don't think it will ever cease to exist, but it will be marginalized over time to the point where only the desperate play the sport - like boxing is today.

Boxing didn't become marginalized because of the danger. Boxing became marginalized because of the greed and corruption of the promoters. When they sold their souls to PPV, HBO and Showtime they removed a large portion of their fanbase economically, have a confusing number of sanctioning bodies and champions, and the reputations of people like Don King and Bob Arum making harder to attract corporate partners. MMA isn't any safer than boxing and it's popularity is getting bigger and bigger every year because they have embraced cable TV to build a grassroots level fanbase, and have fewer number of sanctioning bodies.

(11-14-2013 02:37 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 12:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 12:24 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I believe soccer will eventually will replace football in the long run, people thought baseball would never be supplanted as the number 1 past time....eventually football will be to. As people get turned off with the injuries and life long repercussions. Also I think the college conference commissioners, ESPN along with the University Presidents who have no concept of college sports rivalry traditions, are hastening that day by destroying traditional intra-state and regional rivalries.

That may end up being true but I'd hate to see that happen out of pure ignorance of the fact that soccer also caries a serious risk of injury with life long repercussions.

The truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as a safe sport.

If that is really going to happen, I think that Rugby will rise more in popularity. Not the Rugby Union but the Rugby League rules (less players, more up tempo than 'Union', field is more like the American). The tackles are different and with no head gear (some has like the leather covers) no concussions as would in football.

I played football during recesses in elementary school but didn't play until I was Jr. High. I know some places around the country are different but I don't see the reason to play at such a young age and risk the injury in a high impact sport.

I played rugby as a kid in Ireland and can personally attest to the fact that head injuries are still common. The rules say you can't tackle above the waist which just means you get kicked in the head. Also, scrum caps don't protect your brain or your head. They are meant to protect you from abrasions and having your ears torn off.

As a wing out on the very edge I took, and dished out, more mean hits than I ever did as a running back in football.

(11-14-2013 02:48 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:37 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 12:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 12:24 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I believe soccer will eventually will replace football in the long run, people thought baseball would never be supplanted as the number 1 past time....eventually football will be to. As people get turned off with the injuries and life long repercussions. Also I think the college conference commissioners, ESPN along with the University Presidents who have no concept of college sports rivalry traditions, are hastening that day by destroying traditional intra-state and regional rivalries.

That may end up being true but I'd hate to see that happen out of pure ignorance of the fact that soccer also caries a serious risk of injury with life long repercussions.

The truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as a safe sport.

If that is really going to happen, I think that Rugby will rise more in popularity. Not the Rugby Union but the Rugby League rules (less players, more up tempo than 'Union', field is more like the American). The tackles are different and with no head gear (some has like the leather covers) no concussions as would in football.

I played football during recesses in elementary school but didn't play until I was Jr. High. I know some places around the country are different but I don't see the reason to play at such a young age and risk the injury in a high impact sport.

I played rugby as a kid in Ireland and can personally attest to the fact that head injuries are still common. The rules say you can't tackle above the waist which just means you get kicked in the head. Also, scrum caps don't protect your brain or your head. They are meant to protect you from abrasions and having your ears torn off.

As a wing out on the very edge I took, and dished out, more mean hits than I ever did as a running back in football.

But are they more than bangs on the head? I get hit in the head also playing basketball but the impact is quite different than taking a blow to the head in american football with a helmet. Same thing just playing tackle football on the school grounds. Nobody is lowering their head to hit head to head if they don't have a helmet.

(11-14-2013 02:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:36 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I'm not sure how you reform football. Everyone is keying on the concussions issues. That's not believed to be the true smoking gun that has been affecting the athletes. It's the repeated trauma that the brain is exposed to over time as a result of collisions within the sport. Trying to find the right helmet or teaching proper technique for blocking/tackling (though good for preventing injury) will not address the true root cause. Even without the concussions, the brain is still being damaged. That's the real issue going on and it will be the undoing of the sport. I don't think it will ever cease to exist, but it will be marginalized over time to the point where only the desperate play the sport - like boxing is today.

Boxing didn't become marginalized because of the danger. Boxing became marginalized because of the greed and corruption of the promoters. When they sold their souls to PPV, HBO and Showtime they removed a large portion of their fanbase economically, have a confusing number of sanctioning bodies and champions, and the reputations of people like Don King and Bob Arum making harder to attract corporate partners. MMA isn't any safer than boxing and it's popularity is getting bigger and bigger every year because they have embraced cable TV to build a grassroots level fanbase, and have fewer number of sanctioning bodies.

MMA will suffer the same fate over time. Yes, boxing grasped for the money and shot itself in the foot, but at the same time the news about the long term affects of boxing on the athletes has been very damaging as well. In particular, watching Muhamed Ali turn into a vegetable turned a lot of people off about the sport. Researchers have been linking head trauma in football to boxing for a little while now too, and the notion of being "punch drunk" is being seen in retired NFL players as well as the same types of memory losses, dimentia, etc seen in boxers.

MMA is a fad, and it's popularity is based on the pageantry as much as anything. Give it enough time and it will start to fall by the wayside.

(11-14-2013 03:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:48 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:37 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 12:50 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 12:24 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I believe soccer will eventually will replace football in the long run, people thought baseball would never be supplanted as the number 1 past time....eventually football will be to. As people get turned off with the injuries and life long repercussions. Also I think the college conference commissioners, ESPN along with the University Presidents who have no concept of college sports rivalry traditions, are hastening that day by destroying traditional intra-state and regional rivalries.

That may end up being true but I'd hate to see that happen out of pure ignorance of the fact that soccer also caries a serious risk of injury with life long repercussions.

The truth of the matter is that there is no such thing as a safe sport.

If that is really going to happen, I think that Rugby will rise more in popularity. Not the Rugby Union but the Rugby League rules (less players, more up tempo than 'Union', field is more like the American). The tackles are different and with no head gear (some has like the leather covers) no concussions as would in football.

I played football during recesses in elementary school but didn't play until I was Jr. High. I know some places around the country are different but I don't see the reason to play at such a young age and risk the injury in a high impact sport.

I played rugby as a kid in Ireland and can personally attest to the fact that head injuries are still common. The rules say you can't tackle above the waist which just means you get kicked in the head. Also, scrum caps don't protect your brain or your head. They are meant to protect you from abrasions and having your ears torn off.

As a wing out on the very edge I took, and dished out, more mean hits than I ever did as a running back in football.

But are they more than bangs on the head? I get hit in the head also playing basketball but the impact is quite different than taking a blow to the head in american football with a helmet. Same thing just playing tackle football on the school grounds. Nobody is lowering their head to hit head to head if they don't have a helmet.

You take plenty of blows to the head.

From what I've seen on the issue of head trauma it's to just the severity of blows to the head but the quantity as well. Any time where your brain shifts around and things go black or you get your bell rung it's all the same as far as this issue is concerned.

I'm just saying I don't think rugby is a great alternative if you're seeking to avoid head injuries.

(11-14-2013 03:52 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:36 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I'm not sure how you reform football. Everyone is keying on the concussions issues. That's not believed to be the true smoking gun that has been affecting the athletes. It's the repeated trauma that the brain is exposed to over time as a result of collisions within the sport. Trying to find the right helmet or teaching proper technique for blocking/tackling (though good for preventing injury) will not address the true root cause. Even without the concussions, the brain is still being damaged. That's the real issue going on and it will be the undoing of the sport. I don't think it will ever cease to exist, but it will be marginalized over time to the point where only the desperate play the sport - like boxing is today.

Boxing didn't become marginalized because of the danger. Boxing became marginalized because of the greed and corruption of the promoters. When they sold their souls to PPV, HBO and Showtime they removed a large portion of their fanbase economically, have a confusing number of sanctioning bodies and champions, and the reputations of people like Don King and Bob Arum making harder to attract corporate partners. MMA isn't any safer than boxing and it's popularity is getting bigger and bigger every year because they have embraced cable TV to build a grassroots level fanbase, and have fewer number of sanctioning bodies.

MMA will suffer the same fate over time. Yes, boxing grasped for the money and shot itself in the foot, but at the same time the news about the long term affects of boxing on the athletes has been very damaging as well. In particular, watching Muhamed Ali turn into a vegetable turned a lot of people off about the sport. Researchers have been linking head trauma in football to boxing for a little while now too, and the notion of being "punch drunk" is being seen in retired NFL players as well as the same types of memory losses, dimentia, etc seen in boxers.

MMA is a fad, and it's popularity is based on the pageantry as much as anything. Give it enough time and it will start to fall by the wayside.

I don't watch MMA, I consider it human...pit bull dog fighting.

(11-14-2013 04:27 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 03:52 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 02:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 01:36 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I'm not sure how you reform football. Everyone is keying on the concussions issues. That's not believed to be the true smoking gun that has been affecting the athletes. It's the repeated trauma that the brain is exposed to over time as a result of collisions within the sport. Trying to find the right helmet or teaching proper technique for blocking/tackling (though good for preventing injury) will not address the true root cause. Even without the concussions, the brain is still being damaged. That's the real issue going on and it will be the undoing of the sport. I don't think it will ever cease to exist, but it will be marginalized over time to the point where only the desperate play the sport - like boxing is today.

Boxing didn't become marginalized because of the danger. Boxing became marginalized because of the greed and corruption of the promoters. When they sold their souls to PPV, HBO and Showtime they removed a large portion of their fanbase economically, have a confusing number of sanctioning bodies and champions, and the reputations of people like Don King and Bob Arum making harder to attract corporate partners. MMA isn't any safer than boxing and it's popularity is getting bigger and bigger every year because they have embraced cable TV to build a grassroots level fanbase, and have fewer number of sanctioning bodies.

MMA will suffer the same fate over time. Yes, boxing grasped for the money and shot itself in the foot, but at the same time the news about the long term affects of boxing on the athletes has been very damaging as well. In particular, watching Muhamed Ali turn into a vegetable turned a lot of people off about the sport. Researchers have been linking head trauma in football to boxing for a little while now too, and the notion of being "punch drunk" is being seen in retired NFL players as well as the same types of memory losses, dimentia, etc seen in boxers.

MMA is a fad, and it's popularity is based on the pageantry as much as anything. Give it enough time and it will start to fall by the wayside.

I don't watch MMA, I consider it human...pit bull dog fighting.

My feeling as well.

Football is not for everyone...nor should it be. The "everyone gets a trophy" generation that espouses soccer will run it's course. People did not stop watching baseball because it was violent. People stopped watching baseball because the season is meaningless and boring. I see no future for soccer for the same reasons. [/b]