(11-10-2013 01:08 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(11-09-2013 06:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  normally im the last to complain about the refs......

but yeah there really is a stigma against syracuse. ACC refs are notorious already and its been an eye opener watching SU games. i have never seen so many WTF calls watching syracuse before

psu 8-70
nw 7-52
wagner 2-10
tulane 7-75
clemson 4-35
nc state 8-72
gtech 9-91
wake 6-50

OOC average: 7-56
ACC average- 8-78

ok that doesnt look THAT bad, however lets look at how we did compared to other teams

psu +50
nw -3
wagner +55
tulane -37
clemson +25
nc state +37
gtech +91
wake +6
MD +105

OOC average: +16
ACC average +52.8

syracuse basically is getting triple the amount of penalties as the opposing teams. and its not really the numbers but these strange WTF calls that are really the cause for concern

GREAT post.

You are in the ACC now, find your wallet, pull it out, and pay the refs. UNC has been doing it for years.

(11-10-2013 04:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 01:08 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(11-09-2013 06:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  normally im the last to complain about the refs......

but yeah there really is a stigma against syracuse. ACC refs are notorious already and its been an eye opener watching SU games. i have never seen so many WTF calls watching syracuse before

psu 8-70
nw 7-52
wagner 2-10
tulane 7-75
clemson 4-35
nc state 8-72
gtech 9-91
wake 6-50

OOC average: 7-56
ACC average- 8-78

ok that doesnt look THAT bad, however lets look at how we did compared to other teams

psu +50
nw -3
wagner +55
tulane -37
clemson +25
nc state +37
gtech +91
wake +6
MD +105

OOC average: +16
ACC average +52.8

syracuse basically is getting triple the amount of penalties as the opposing teams. and its not really the numbers but these strange WTF calls that are really the cause for concern

GREAT post.

You are in the ACC now, find your wallet, pull it out, and pay the refs. UNC has been doing it for years.

We must have run out of money, because Carolina has been getting the raw end of officiating all season long. At this point we would be happy with Ron Cherry....it's THAT BAD.

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

I doubt it. I think that SU and BC are happy with the ACC, and I know ND is. The only school in question is Pitt.

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

Wait until BB starts. Coming out of the locker room is not only a personal foul but it is a misdemeanor.

(11-10-2013 08:42 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Wait until BB starts. Coming out of the locker room is not only a personal foul but it is a misdemeanor.

ZING!

(11-10-2013 08:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

The "old big east" which was a 16 team league starting around 2005, had exactly 1 National Champ. BUT...if we start at 1999, I count 5 Natl Champs each from the ACC and Big East.

(11-10-2013 09:30 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 08:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

The "old big east" which was a 16 team league starting around 2005, had exactly 1 National Champ. BUT...if we start at 1999, I count 5 Natl Champs each from the ACC and Big East.

Actually, the old BE had 2 championships from 2005. Uconn, 2011 and Louisville 2013
How much money did each league earn in NCAA tourney money? How many tourney credits did each league earn? There is a huge difference between the 2 leagues. Just because the ACC or BE may have had THE best team in a year and win the championship, doesnt mean that it had the best TEAMS, or was the best league.
From the year 2005, the Acc wasnt even in the conversation, because it was between the BIG and the BE.

But my point is not comparing the BE from 2005 to the Acc from 2005, Really, there is no comparison. But my point is the old BE from 2005 compared to the new ACC from 2014. Its really close, but I would still give the old BE the edge. It just had so many schools that were bb centric. Even when a traditional bb power was down like St Johns and Cinci, there were so many other schools to fill the void. The old BE never had a yaer where they had less than 6 ncaa tourney teams. Just too much depth.

Cuse and the Refs will always have that Toledo game form 11 remember the good times.

(11-10-2013 09:57 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 09:30 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 08:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

The "old big east" which was a 16 team league starting around 2005, had exactly 1 National Champ. BUT...if we start at 1999, I count 5 Natl Champs each from the ACC and Big East.

Actually, the old BE had 2 championships from 2005. Uconn, 2011 and Louisville 2013
How much money did each league earn in NCAA tourney money? How many tourney credits did each league earn? There is a huge difference between the 2 leagues. Just because the ACC or BE may have had THE best team in a year and win the championship, doesnt mean that it had the best TEAMS, or was the best league.
From the year 2005, the Acc wasnt even in the conversation, because it was between the BIG and the BE.

But my point is not comparing the BE from 2005 to the Acc from 2005, Really, there is no comparison. But my point is the old BE from 2005 compared to the new ACC from 2014. Its really close, but I would still give the old BE the edge. It just had so many schools that were bb centric. Even when a traditional bb power was down like St Johns and Cinci, there were so many other schools to fill the void. The old BE never had a yaer where they had less than 6 ncaa tourney teams. Just too much depth.

Yep, I remembered it was 2 champs as soon as I posted and walked away.
B10 has had 1 Natl champ since 1989 (MSU in 2000, and that was courtesy of Kenyon Martin's season ending injury in CUSA tourney, bc Cincy was gna coast to a Natl Champ.
Big East may have earned more money, but you're splitting amongst 16 teams.

Going forward, ACC will have lots o depth: UNC, Dook, Lville, Syr, NC State, FSU, UVA, Pitt and sometimes GT, Wake, BC.
I'd say the Big East was generally regarded as the best overall bball conf from 2005 to present, even though the ACC had the best top teams.
AND...if you look at it from a prestige standpoint, the new ACC will have 4 basketball blue bloods: UNC, Dook, Louisville, Syracuse.
But I agree, Big East was the best overall conference for that 10 year span.
Welcome to the neighborhood.

(11-10-2013 10:25 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 09:57 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 09:30 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 08:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

The "old big east" which was a 16 team league starting around 2005, had exactly 1 National Champ. BUT...if we start at 1999, I count 5 Natl Champs each from the ACC and Big East.

Actually, the old BE had 2 championships from 2005. Uconn, 2011 and Louisville 2013
How much money did each league earn in NCAA tourney money? How many tourney credits did each league earn? There is a huge difference between the 2 leagues. Just because the ACC or BE may have had THE best team in a year and win the championship, doesnt mean that it had the best TEAMS, or was the best league.
From the year 2005, the Acc wasnt even in the conversation, because it was between the BIG and the BE.

But my point is not comparing the BE from 2005 to the Acc from 2005, Really, there is no comparison. But my point is the old BE from 2005 compared to the new ACC from 2014. Its really close, but I would still give the old BE the edge. It just had so many schools that were bb centric. Even when a traditional bb power was down like St Johns and Cinci, there were so many other schools to fill the void. The old BE never had a yaer where they had less than 6 ncaa tourney teams. Just too much depth.

Yep, I remembered it was 2 champs as soon as I posted and walked away.
B10 has had 1 Natl champ since 1989 (MSU in 2000, and that was courtesy of Kenyon Martin's season ending injury in CUSA tourney, bc Cincy was gna coast to a Natl Champ.
Big East may have earned more money, but you're splitting amongst 16 teams.

Going forward, ACC will have lots o depth: UNC, Dook, Lville, Syr, NC State, FSU, UVA, Pitt and sometimes GT, Wake, BC.
I'd say the Big East was generally regarded as the best overall bball conf from 2005 to present, even though the ACC had the best top teams.
AND...if you look at it from a prestige standpoint, the new ACC will have 4 basketball blue bloods: UNC, Dook, Louisville, Syracuse.
But I agree, Big East was the best overall conference for that 10 year span.
Welcome to the neighborhood.

The ACC has been a 2 man conference, Miami lately too. Cuse and Louisville will make it deep

I've noticed some bad officiating but won't say the officials are against Pitt. While those #'s John posted are staggering but I tend to blame it on Syracuse being undiciplined more than some conspiracy.

As for BE v ACC debate... Don't give a damn. We're in a new league now. Why stupid, unneeded debate for?

(11-10-2013 09:30 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 08:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

The "old big east" which was a 16 team league starting around 2005, had exactly 1 National Champ. BUT...if we start at 1999, I count 5 Natl Champs each from the ACC and Big East.

With 60% of them coming from the team XLance wants nothing to do with.

(11-10-2013 11:01 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I've noticed some bad officiating but won't say the officials are against Pitt. While those #'s John posted are staggering but I tend to blame it on Syracuse being undiciplined more than some conspiracy.

As for BE v ACC debate... Don't give a damn. We're in a new league now. Why stupid, unneeded debate for?

Part 1 mostly true...but each ACC game has yielded 2-5 really bad calls going against Cuse (called or uncalled).

Part 2: If we didn't have stupid, unneeded debate this board would be really sparse. Stupid, unneeded debate is our crack cocaine.

(11-10-2013 11:01 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I've noticed some bad officiating but won't say the officials are against Pitt. While those #'s John posted are staggering but I tend to blame it on Syracuse being undiciplined more than some conspiracy.

As for BE v ACC debate... Don't give a damn. We're in a new league now. Why stupid, unneeded debate for?

Agreed...bitter Syracuse fan post...yada yada...ACC overrated...yada yada...we don't get any calls...yada yada...

Now that the ACC has acquired the Big East's top bball teams, sans UCONN :( , should be fun.

(11-10-2013 08:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

The so-called superiority of the old Big East is a Big East myth.
The fact-of the-matter is that when the dust settled (as OmniOrange has pointed out) and the ACC/Big East Challenge came to an end the score was dead even. Tied. It seemed that the depth of the ACC matched the depth of the Big East for the entire length of the challenge.

(11-11-2013 10:08 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 08:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:23 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 06:08 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 04:00 PM)Hashtag Wrote:  Pffff. This post is silly. Are you angling for Syracuse to replace NC State as the whiniest fan base?
I miss the old days of the ACC-Big East challenge, but now that the fball members have consolidated into 1 conglomerate, gues we have to get used to the infighting. Basketball season should be fun. Wish UCONN was on board too...

FWIW, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the northern flank of the conference would do naked acrobatics if the B10 came calling...at which point I'd say "good riddance".

That's a bad attitude son. I'm happy to have Syracuse, Pitt and yes even BC. But UConn?....not a chance.

Go Heels!

I'm also very happy to have them, and look fwd to watching the best bball conf in history. UCONN would also be great :). I can see some pretty intense rivalries developing.

That remains to be seen, imo. The old BE with Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Cinci, Nova, Pitt, ND, St Johns had more depth imo. If the Acc regularly sends between 8-11 teams to the tourney every year and regularly has a representative in the final four, then I would say that it equals the old BE.

The so-called superiority of the old Big East is a Big East myth.
The fact-of the-matter is that when the dust settled (as OmniOrange has pointed out) and the ACC/Big East Challenge came to an end the score was dead even. Tied. It seemed that the depth of the ACC matched the depth of the Big East for the entire length of the challenge.

When the Acc/BE challenge ended, there was no Louisville, Marquette or Cincy. We are talking about the period from 2005 til now. During the BE/ACC challenge years, the ACC was a really strong league then and it was between the ACC and BE. But from 2005 onward, no contest, as the BE had the infusion of the best of Cusa and then ACC stalwarts like Georgia Tech and NC State and Wake became very inconsistent programs.

People seem to see officiating through their own prism. I had some otherwise rational Tennessee fans claiming there was a conspiracy by the refs tried to give Georgia the game because of a "bad call" on a Georgia TD. They said the whole student section was upset. Tennessee never complained because the call was clear as day correct. They probably saw the Georgia players gloves and thought he was dropping the football. But it wasn't even a close call, yet they claimed conspiracy. Some Nebraska fans claim conspiracy because the refs actually got the call right in that Big 12 championship game with Texas with the one second left.

Some of it is misbehavior by the coaches triggering the fans. Tennessee had a coach run out onto the field after a different call (that was right) and was lucky not to get thrown out of the game. That stirred up the fans. The Pellinis had a meltdown and continued it for several days. Carl was probably smoking something.