(11-04-2013 05:50 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 05:15 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  that is what made guys like the Curry's and Reddick so difficult to guard.

Curry was an NBA superstar playing in one of the worst conference in America. He could do about anything he wanted in most games.

As far as Redick, here are Richmond's numbers averaged out to the exact same minutes of Redick his JR year. It's almost identical bottomline production per minute.

Redick
21.8 ppg
3.3 rpg
2.6 apg
1.1 spg
60.7 % True Shooting

Richmond
20.3 ppg
3.5 rpg
2.3 apg
1.3 spg
60.0 % True Shooting

Redick was 1st team All American and ACC POY that year, of course doing it in a top tier conference. That said if Richmond can put up numbers around that and we win a respectable amount, no reason he can't be 1st team CUSA or a POY candidate.

Not a fair comparison as the competition that Redick faced was far tougher than ECU played. Looking at the top teams that ECU played last season (Charlotte, UNC, UMass, Memphis, UTEP, and Southern Miss) Richmond averaged 11.4 ppg. That was helped considerably by the two Southern Miss game where he averaged 20. He scored 2 points against Charlotte, averaged 9 against Memphis, and scored 3 against UTEP.

It seems that this season you have once again padded your schedule with the likes of Chowan, Fayetteville State, North Carolina Wesleyan, and Mount Olive High School. You can't keep playing that schedule and touting your players as dominant scorers. They have to prove it against real competition and 11.4 ppg won't get PLOY honors.

(11-05-2013 07:54 AM)Dowless Wrote:  Not a fair comparison as the competition that Redick faced was far tougher than ECU played.

I never said they were equal players. CUSA and ACC aren't close to equal conferences, but with similar statlines if Redick can win POY in the ACC then Richmond can in CUSA. That was the point to Niner National if he impacts games same at this level.

Quote:Looking at the top teams that ECU played last season (Charlotte, UNC, UMass, Memphis, UTEP, and Southern Miss) Richmond averaged 11.4 ppg. That was helped considerably by the two Southern Miss game where he averaged 20. He scored 2 points against Charlotte, averaged 9 against Memphis, and scored 3 against UTEP.

He scored two points vs UNCC because Lebo stupidly only played him 9 minutes. He shouldn't have been on the bench behind Bowden or Gaines last year, same as Kemp on the bench the year before. You can see what happened when Kemp went from 20 minutes to starter minutes and Kemp's level of production per minute was already all conf level as a Jr and he was even better with more minutes. Richmond already did the same thing the last 13 games last year when we had injuries his minutes increased he was a 16ppg scorer in just 28 minutes a game to finish the year.

Quote:It seems that this season you have once again padded your schedule with the likes of Chowan, Fayetteville State, North Carolina Wesleyan, and Mount Olive High School. You can't keep playing that schedule and touting your players as dominant scorers. They have to prove it against real competition and 11.4 ppg won't get PLOY honors.

It's 4 games out of 35, and way overblown by you guys. The walk ons and scrubs are usually in by the early 2nd half, and Richmonds scoring averaged last year was HIGHER if you take those games out.

Do you not get that minutes affect stats or can't wrap your head around the fact productive players are productive players? That's what we are talking about here and 11.4ppg in 19.4 minutes vs Charlotte, UNC, UMass, Memphis, UTEP, and Southern Miss is pretty amazing scoring ability any way you cut it. It's not 11.5 points in 35 minutes a game. No reason he shouldn't get 30+ minutes and score 16-20ppg this year.

(11-04-2013 10:50 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 08:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  I don't want to derail this thread, but there is a difference between a shooter and a scorer. Richmond is a shooter. The Currys and Reddick were scorers.

So what? Neither of them made three's at the pace he did last year. No one ever has. If he hits at a similar clip this year and gets the kind of minutes either of them did he would shatter the all time record for 3's a game.

Quote:Scorers get their point in a variety of ways; including jumpers, floaters, drives, free throws etc. They don't just rely on long range shooting. Richmond is a streak shooter. Period. He hardly ever drives or gets to the free throw line for foul shots; and he has never been the primary focus of opposing defenses like the Currys or Reddick. So when Richmond is getting doubled and tripled teamed then you can make some comparisons, but right now he doesn't compare to those players.

Again, who the hell really cares how he scores as long as he scores and scores efficiently. He was the 4th most efficient scorer in CUSA last year. Every player goes through some slumps, most don't post 60% true shooting percentages either which means he went through a hell of a lot less than all but a few others. That's the bottomline. Period.

You hit 33% of your 3's and that's like shooting 50% from 2. The substance is the same, you don't get style points for dunks or floaters or over powering people like Shaq. Just make shots. If anything it's better for the other players to draw the defense outward and spread the floor out to 25 feet like he does.

That is not true at all, that's why we have a thing called effective field goal percentage. You generate more free throw opportunities by shooting more two-point shot, you need to be shooting 35-38% from three to make up for that.

(11-05-2013 09:44 AM)itsbraille49 Wrote:  That is not true at all, that's why we have a thing called effective field goal percentage. You generate more free throw opportunities by shooting more two-point shot, you need to be shooting 35-38% from three to make up for that.

Effective Field Goal %

Akeem Richmond .578 % .....2nd in CUSA last year

Redick's his JR year at Duke .530 %
Curry's Jr year at Davidson .549 %

Michael Jordan's the greatest scorer ever in the NBA right?
-Jordan Career average .503 with a career year of .537

What I think you meant was True Shooting Percentage because that takes into account effective FG % as well as the number of times getting to the line and making them in relation, which is what I used in my orginal point. Richmond had the 4th best True Shooting % .600 in CUSA almost exactly the same as Curry (.604) and Redick (.607) their Jr year, and significantly (3.2)% percent higher TS% than Jordan's career average.

(11-05-2013 01:31 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 11:16 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  That statement right there reflects the fact that you don't realize that opposing teams will now defend Richmond differently, since he is now the number 1 scoring option.

And you are dead wrong as usual. For much of the early season while Lebo was playing Bowden and Gaines about the only time Richmond came in was when we were way behind in the 2nd half and Lebo would thrown him in out of desperation to try to bring us back. That is about as an impossible situations for most players as there is, and he delivered clutch many times with defenses knowing exactly where the ball was going. UNCG, UNC, UMass, Campbell, SMU , Houston, Savanah St etc he brought us back from double digits down late.

Everyone on the planet had film and knew this hail mary after he brought us back in the 2nd game form 16 down vs UNCG and still couldnt' stop it. Then when he finally started getting consistent minutes after those players were hurt he was averaging 16ppg and clearly a main focus of the defenses and drawing the best perimeter defenders.

Quote:It is doubtful that Richmond will shoot as well this year, because he will now be facing double and triple teams, because the other teams will now game plan for him as the number one option. Richmond will now also face the most athletic wing defensive player on the other team, because that player will have the physical ability to stop him from either getting the ball or to alter his shot if he does get it.

You are blind. He was already clearly a major focus of defenses last year for the reasons above, many times with the defense knowing exactly what was coming in desperation. He is one of the best players moving without the ball and using screens in the country and if that didn't work he hit some from 25+. He's not had a problem getting his shot off or making them at elite levels either. That's a fact and there aren't but a handful of guys ever that shot three's close to the pace or percentage he did. It will probably drop some with fatigue this year if Lebo plays him like he should and lack of help we have, but he doesn't have to hit at as high a level to still be a dominate force or still shoot a great percentage.

You tell me another guy on our team that will likely average 15+ points. There isn't one that wouldn't be a total shock. If he does it even on 37% three's,and makes 100+ that's a great year.

Alright then. If Richmond's shooting percentage drops this year, then you will know why. There is not one coach in CUSA that is just going to sit there on the sideline and let Richmond shoot unmolested 3's. And without Paul and Kemp there to draw defenders off of him, then I strongly suspect that Richmond is going to shoot worse than last year; unless he starts driving to the rim. That is the key for him. He must drive to get better looks.

(11-05-2013 10:25 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 09:44 AM)itsbraille49 Wrote:  That is not true at all, that's why we have a thing called effective field goal percentage. You generate more free throw opportunities by shooting more two-point shot, you need to be shooting 35-38% from three to make up for that.

Effective Field Goal %

Akeem Richmond .578 % .....2nd in CUSA last year

Redick's his JR year at Duke .530 %
Curry's Jr year at Davidson .549 %

Michael Jordan's the greatest scorer ever in the NBA right?
-Jordan Career average .503 with a career year of .537

What I think you meant was True Shooting Percentage because that takes into account effective FG % as well as getting to the line and making. Richmond was 4th best in CUSA

Mine is .634% in the Greenville "Little People" league. Did you just compare Richmond to Michael Jordan. Shame on you. We will see how well Richmond shoots over our 6'4" guards. It didn't work out so well for him last year going 1-5 and 0-4 from 3pt. He had 1 steal and 1 TO. You question why he only played 9 minutes.

(11-05-2013 10:36 AM)Dowless Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 10:25 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 09:44 AM)itsbraille49 Wrote:  That is not true at all, that's why we have a thing called effective field goal percentage. You generate more free throw opportunities by shooting more two-point shot, you need to be shooting 35-38% from three to make up for that.

Effective Field Goal %

Akeem Richmond .578 % .....2nd in CUSA last year

Redick's his JR year at Duke .530 %
Curry's Jr year at Davidson .549 %

Michael Jordan's the greatest scorer ever in the NBA right?
-Jordan Career average .503 with a career year of .537

What I think you meant was True Shooting Percentage because that takes into account effective FG % as well as getting to the line and making. Richmond was 4th best in CUSA

Mine is .634% in the Greenville "Little People" league. Did you just compare Richmond to Michael Jordan. Shame on you. We will see how well Richmond shoots over our 6'4" guards. It didn't work out so well for him last year going 1-5 and 0-4 from 3pt. He had 1 steal and 1 TO. You question why he only played 9 minutes.

It is not going to work out well for him this year either, unless he drives the ball and hit some pull up jump shots.

(11-05-2013 10:25 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  Alright then. If Richmond's shooting percentage drops this year, then you will know why.

Not necessarily. If Lebo is playing him like he should 30-35 minutes a game it could simply come from fatigue, especially with no one else that has proven they can really score he might be putting up incredible amounts of shots this year. I never saw him gassed once last year but even a gassed version he's still our best scoring option either way.

Quote:There is not one coach in CUSA that is just going to sit there on the sideline and let Richmond shoot unmolested 3's.

Who the hell did that last year. He was the focus nearly every time he hit the court knowing we were down usually and needed quick three's.

Quote:And without Paul and Kemp there to draw defenders off of him then I strongly suspect that Richmond is going to shoot worse than last year

No $hit? I said I expected his percentages to drop some from the start, but so what with his incredible efficiency. Even if he only gets 15 points on 37% three's and makes 100+ of them on a .550 TS% that's a great year. We got plenty of question marks but he's not it.

(11-05-2013 10:57 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 10:25 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  Alright then. If Richmond's shooting percentage drops this year, then you will know why.

Not necessarily. If Lebo is playing him like he should 30-35 minutes a game it could simply come from fatigue, especially with no one else that has proven they can really score he might be putting up incredible amounts of shots this year which could wear him out more. I never saw him gassed once last year but even a gassed version he's still our best scoring option either way.

Quote:There is not one coach in CUSA that is just going to sit there on the sideline and let Richmond shoot unmolested 3's.

Who the hell did that last year. He was the focus nearly every time he hit the court knowing we were down usually and needed quick three's.

Quote:And without Paul and Kemp there to draw defenders off of him then I strongly suspect that Richmond is going to shoot worse than last year

No $hit? I said I expected his percentages to drop some from the start, but so what with his incredible efficiency. Even if he only gets 15 points on 37% three's and makes 100+ of them on a .550 TS% that's a great year. We got plenty of question marks but he's not it.

At some point I wouldn't even be surprised to see Richmond coming off of the bench again; just like Brock Young did for Lebo when Young was a senior. You will know that it is coming if Richmond struggles as a starter, because life is different for a starter versus a bench player. If guys like Prince Williams, Antonio Robinson, Caleb White, Stith and Alexander step up, then ECU should have a pretty good season. Right now it is all a mystery.

The name of this thread should be "One more season of SJ"

(11-05-2013 10:47 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  It is not going to work out well for him this year either, unless he drives the ball and hit some pull up jump shots.

anyone that can put 17 on UNC in 19 minutes or 25 in 32 on a top 30 and better USM team I think is ok. It's the sum though not the individual games and you can't argue with his effectiveness. I'm also pretty sure he dropped 20 points on UNCC before a couple times at Rhode Island and when he's got such inconsistent minutes from Lebo wtf you expect when he can't even get warmed up some games.

I only reference Jordan who is considered the greatest SCORER of all time. The sad reality though is he couldn't hit a 3 pointer to save his life and that Akeem at this level was a more effective scorer last year than even Jordan because people under value the actual amount of bottomline points it shooting 3's at that rate produced. Akeem's short and his strength is never going to be driving in the lane. Play to your incredible strength and open it up for the players that can is exactly how he should play. The bottomline is the bottomline you don't get style points for diversity. Just about no one was as an effective of a scorer returning this year as he was last year and that's all that really matters

(11-05-2013 11:05 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  At some point I wouldn't even be surprised to see Richmond coming off of the bench again; just like Brock Young did for Lebo when Young was a senior.

Brock had no meniscus in his knee that year, not even close to comparable.

Quote:You will know that it is coming if Richmond struggles as a starter, because life is different for a starter versus a bench player.

Minutes are minutes. Just get him 33 like you would our best player.

Quote:If guys like Prince Williams, Antonio Robinson, Caleb White, Stith and Alexander step up, then ECU should have a pretty good season. Right now it is all a mystery.

If. You got a guy that has been one of the best proven scorers in CUSA returning, who cares how the sausage is made. Worry about something else.

(11-05-2013 08:40 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  It's 4 games out of 35...

So you are predicting 35 games this year? Coming in as the CIT Champions, with the Conference Player of the Year, PR-C, Stith, and of course Lebo where are you going to be playing those last 5 games?

(11-05-2013 11:21 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:  So you are predicting 35 games this year? Coming in as the CIT Champions, with the Conference Player of the Year, PR-C, Stith, and of course Lebo where are you going to be playing those last 5 games?

It was 4 out of 35 last year. We play 29 games for sure right now. I could see us winning a couple games in the CUSA tourney and I think if we lose to Duke in the NIT there was some talk of playing a 3rd conselation in Minges. That's like 31-33 games right there. As defending champs we are invited back to the CIT regardless of what happens this year. If we did have a rough losing year for whatever reason I'd go just to get the extra practice time with only one senior and try to build confidence for next year.

While I do not think that Marshall will be that great I would not be surprised if rF F-Ryan Taylor doesn't make a serious run for CUSA POY. He is already being billed as the best freshman in CUSA. And also if Chris Thomas can come close to the hype he receieved coming out of HS then he could make a run.

(11-05-2013 11:12 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 10:47 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  It is not going to work out well for him this year either, unless he drives the ball and hit some pull up jump shots.

anyone that can put 17 on UNC in 19 minutes or 25 in 32 on a top 30 and better USM team I think is ok. It's the sum though not the individual games and you can't argue with his effectiveness. I'm also pretty sure he dropped 20 points on UNCC before a couple times at Rhode Island and when he's got such inconsistent minutes from Lebo wtf you expect when he can't even get warmed up some games.

I only reference Jordan who is considered the greatest SCORER of all time. The sad reality though is he couldn't hit a 3 pointer to save his life and that Akeem at this level was a more effective scorer last year than even Jordan because people under value the actual amount of bottomline points it shooting 3's at that rate produced. Akeem's short and his strength is never going to be driving in the lane. Play to your incredible strength and open it up for the players that can is exactly how he should play. The bottomline is the bottomline you don't get style points for diversity. Just about no one was as an effective of a scorer returning this year as he was last year and that's all that really matters

The aboslute dumbest thing you have ever said on this board and that is really saying something.

(11-05-2013 11:45 AM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  While I do not think that Marshall will be that great I would not be surprised if rF F-Ryan Taylor doesn't make a serious run for CUSA POY. He is already being billed as the best freshman in CUSA. And also if Chris Thomas can come close to the hype he receieved coming out of HS then he could make a run.

I don't know about that guy but Pittman is one of the best players in CUSA. He's probably the best pro prospect too. I saw Thomas's JUCO numbers and he shoots bricks from everywhere. I wouldn't count on him.

(11-05-2013 11:48 AM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 11:12 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 10:47 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  It is not going to work out well for him this year either, unless he drives the ball and hit some pull up jump shots.

anyone that can put 17 on UNC in 19 minutes or 25 in 32 on a top 30 and better USM team I think is ok. It's the sum though not the individual games and you can't argue with his effectiveness. I'm also pretty sure he dropped 20 points on UNCC before a couple times at Rhode Island and when he's got such inconsistent minutes from Lebo wtf you expect when he can't even get warmed up some games.

I only reference Jordan who is considered the greatest SCORER of all time. The sad reality though is he couldn't hit a 3 pointer to save his life and that Akeem at this level was a more effective scorer last year than even Jordan because people under value the actual amount of bottomline points it shooting 3's at that rate produced. Akeem's short and his strength is never going to be driving in the lane. Play to your incredible strength and open it up for the players that can is exactly how he should play. The bottomline is the bottomline you don't get style points for diversity. Just about no one was as an effective of a scorer returning this year as he was last year and that's all that really matters

The aboslute dumbest thing you have ever said on this board and that is really saying something.

Context bud. I was talking about the methods and how efficiently they scored at their levels, nothing else, not the volume or volume of shots they took. The fact is his True Shooting percentage was much higher than Jordan's average. I know Richmond is not close to the player Jordan is overall even at the CUSA as he was in the NBA or even or Redick in college at higher conference. The method he scored was infact more efficient at this level though than Jordan in the NBA.

MJ in college too. M. Jordan's UNC numbers his Jr year he was national POY....

True Shooting% : .587
Effective FG %: .551


Richmond's

True Shooting% : .600
Effective FG %: .578

if you want to compare college scoring efficiency. Bottomline is the guy can score effectively.

(11-05-2013 11:50 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(11-05-2013 11:45 AM)BleedsGreen33 Wrote:  While I do not think that Marshall will be that great I would not be surprised if rF F-Ryan Taylor doesn't make a serious run for CUSA POY. He is already being billed as the best freshman in CUSA. And also if Chris Thomas can come close to the hype he receieved coming out of HS then he could make a run.

I don't know about that guy but Pittman is one of the best players in CUSA. He's probably the best pro prospect too. I saw Thomas's JUCO numbers and he shoots bricks from everywhere. I wouldn't count on him.

Thomas didn't log a lot of minutes because of all the talent that JUCO team had that year. From my understanding there were several big time commits on that roster. He was shoots a lot better than those numbers reflect. Not saying he will be the best player but he was one of the top players coming out.

As far as Pittman is concerned I wouldn't trust him to do anything great. Sure he athletic but he is a head case. His stuff just was never publicised the was Kane's was. A few of our writers were counting the days to his dismissal because of his blowups in practice.

That all being said Ryan Taylor is probably the best and most complete player on our roster this season.