(10-12-2013 10:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 10:14 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 10:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Obama's far from the champion of liberals that a lot of conservatives seem to portray him as, that would be more along the lines of Mrs. Warren, the only senator with the balls to hold the rich people who helped cause this mess feet to the fire.

Two questions:
1. Why would anyone invest in Elizabeth Warren's America? The risk assessment would look like Hugo Chavez's Venezuela.
2. Without investment, where are the jobs? And who gets hurt worst by that?

That's a fabricated concern, sorry. We still have the best educated and most skilled workforce in the world, even if it is partially due to the brain drain we inflict on other nations.

The most educated and most skilled workforce isn't worth much if there's not enough investment to keep them employed.

I left the Democrats largely because they make no effort to encourage investment in jobs in the areas that the poor are in. They'll preach that they are concerned about the "little guy", but they replace employment with benefits. They do nothing to free up the markets.

(10-12-2013 10:58 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I left the Democrats largely because they make no effort to encourage investment in jobs in the areas that the poor are in. They'll preach that they are concerned about the "little guy", but they replace employment with benefits. They do nothing to free up the markets.

Problem is, republicans don't either. Democrats hand them this great opportunity, and they do absolutely nothing with it. That's why I say republicans are stupid.

Democrats talk about helping the little guy, but in realty make things worse for him/her. That's why I say democrats are evil.

(10-12-2013 11:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 10:58 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I left the Democrats largely because they make no effort to encourage investment in jobs in the areas that the poor are in. They'll preach that they are concerned about the "little guy", but they replace employment with benefits. They do nothing to free up the markets.

Problem is, republicans don't either. Democrats hand them this great opportunity, and they do absolutely nothing with it. That's why I say republicans are stupid.

Democrats talk about helping the little guy, but in realty make things worse for him/her. That's why I say democrats are evil.

I know republicans don't, and they don't even really pretend to.

Small, poor, rural areas could really use this. In my hometown there are at least 15 abandoned factories (Purolator, a couple of cotton mills, three tobacco mills, Iams, and a few others), that have gone under and several people have tried to open operations in them but regulations have made entry to difficult for them. Difficult entry is not good for free markets. Question is: who's gonna make it easier?

(10-12-2013 11:19 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I know republicans don't, and they don't even really pretend to.
Small, poor, rural areas could really use this. In my hometown there are at least 15 abandoned factories (Purolator, a couple of cotton mills, three tobacco mills, Iams, and a few others), that have gone under and several people have tried to open operations in them but regulations have made entry to difficult for them. Difficult entry is not good for free markets. Question is: who's gonna make it easier?

Nobody, apparently.

(10-12-2013 11:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 10:58 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I left the Democrats largely because they make no effort to encourage investment in jobs in the areas that the poor are in. They'll preach that they are concerned about the "little guy", but they replace employment with benefits. They do nothing to free up the markets.

Problem is, republicans don't either. Democrats hand them this great opportunity, and they do absolutely nothing with it. That's why I say republicans are stupid.

Democrats talk about helping the little guy, but in realty make things worse for him/her. That's why I say democrats are evil.

I don't think the repubs are stupid, they are just oblivious until they're on the bad side of an issue.

I guess more than intellectually stupid, they are just not shrewd.

I know this won't seem popular on this messageboard, but Republicans seem more vulnerable to questionable sources, and believing things based on them (like chain letters, questionable websites, etc). If they could get rid of that image, that would help them quite a bit. Oh, and limit the amount of unbelievably stupid sh*t some of their people say that will only hurt their party (Romneys gaffes along with 'legitimate rape' guy all outshone any bumble by the Obamacamp or Democrats in general).

(10-12-2013 11:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I know this won't seem popular on this messageboard, but Republicans seem more vulnerable to questionable sources, and believing things based on them (like chain letters, questionable websites, etc). If they could get rid of that image, that would help them quite a bit. Oh, and limit the amount of unbelievably stupid sh*t some of their people say that will only hurt their party (Romneys gaffes along with 'legitimate rape' guy all outshone any bumble by the Obamacamp or Democrats in general).

I think you are applying a one-sided viewpoint here. Democrats have relied on just as many questionable sources and have said just as many stupid things. The sources don't seem questionable and the comments either don't seem stupid or don't seem important to you, because they fit your biases. Righties do the same thing, the other way.

Thanks for a Democratic view of what Republicans need to do.

Your input is , well, noted.

Try deciphering a conversation with Debbie Wasserman Shultz and come back to me about idiotic things that the other side says.

(10-12-2013 11:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I know this won't seem popular on this messageboard, but Republicans seem more vulnerable to questionable sources, and believing things based on them (like chain letters, questionable websites, etc). If they could get rid of that image, that would help them quite a bit. Oh, and limit the amount of unbelievably stupid sh*t some of their people say that will only hurt their party (Romneys gaffes along with 'legitimate rape' guy all outshone any bumble by the Obamacamp or Democrats in general).

Yet allow liberals to lie, lie, lie and never call them on it. Typical Liberal echo chamber.

(10-12-2013 11:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 11:36 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I know this won't seem popular on this messageboard, but Republicans seem more vulnerable to questionable sources, and believing things based on them (like chain letters, questionable websites, etc). If they could get rid of that image, that would help them quite a bit. Oh, and limit the amount of unbelievably stupid sh*t some of their people say that will only hurt their party (Romneys gaffes along with 'legitimate rape' guy all outshone any bumble by the Obamacamp or Democrats in general).

I think you are applying a one-sided viewpoint here. Democrats have relied on just as many questionable sources and have said just as many stupid things. The sources don't seem questionable and the comments either don't seem stupid or don't seem important to you, because they fit your biases. Righties do the same thing, the other way.

Oh, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist in the democratic party or their electorate, but they either do a better job of suppressing it, or it exists at a higher rate in the republican circles. It's easy to want to believe things that support your preexisting view of the world, but that doesn't mean you should do it.

Just look at the Birther movement. It was dumb, there was no evidence in it's favor, there was tons of evidence that proved it wrong, and yet it was bandied about for how long? Even when the republican leadership tried to quash it, because they knew it was dumb, visible conservatives still went on and on about it. There is no analogue to this, or the 'death panels', or the 'Obamaphone', or any of the objectively factually incorrect image macros I see posted on facebook groups like IMPEACH THE MUSLIM GUN RIGHTS FOR ALL REPUBLICANS. And by factually incorrect, I mean things like the one below,



That's just factually wrong, and a simple look-see shows it to be factually wrong, and yet there seems to only rarely be any initiative to check on the factual accuracy before simply accepting the fact.

You can see it on this messageboard with the '$654 million dollar obamacare' thread, which if one clicked on the link to the actual budget site, it clearly shows that number is the money paid to that company for ~114 different contracts. It's like saying a single jet costs the same as the sum of all of Boeings contracts. It wasn't until I actually looked, it was on page 4 or 5, that anyone even checked it. I don't see that on the democratic side, and I check the sources the exact same.

No.

The one thing that I think does happen is that democrats do a much better jobs of calling out republican mistakes than vice versa. There is the excuse that republicans are hampered because the media are in the tank for democrats, but republicans don't do a good job of getting the word out even on Fox, where the bias is in their favor.

I frequently find myself calling out blatant lies by democrats, and wondering why the republicans aren't calling them out on them. I really don't know why not.

(10-13-2013 12:10 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  No.

The one thing that I think does happen is that democrats do a much better jobs of calling out republican mistakes than vice versa. There is the excuse that republicans are hampered because the media are in the tank for democrats, but republicans don't do a good job of getting the word out even on Fox, where the bias is in their favor.

I frequently find myself calling out blatant lies by democrats, and wondering why the republicans aren't calling them out on them. I really don't know why not.

Agreed.

I think it has something to do with the left being emotionally based politics in general.

The right wing is more of the realist and the left is the idealist.

Thus the left is very practiced at political outrage in a more natural sense. The right by nature is not as much. The support of the media for the left exacerbates the problem.

I call out lies by democrats all the time myself, notably on firearms issues. It's not statistically significant, period, and while i support what I find as reasonable legislation, I won't outright lie to make it seem like i have some quantitative reasoning behind this.

And my post above is accurate. Might just be due to the average age and wealth of the republican party more than anything else (poor elderly are probably far less likely to have the internet but I doubt that trend continues downward in age). But there is a very distinct difference there, and lots of it could probably be due to a popular method information dispersal is notoriously not accurate (chain emails).

It's accurate from your perspective, because you process the errors from one side differently from how you process errors by the other side. You're not the only lefty to do that, and righties do the same thing. It's really kind of funny to sit back and watch both sides do it.

(10-13-2013 12:24 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's accurate from your perspective, because you process the errors from one side differently from how you process errors by the other side. You're not the only lefty to do that, and righties do the same thing. It's really kind of funny to sit back and watch both sides do it.

Agreed

My voting history is about 60-40 overall, I'm a registered independent, and I've never donated to a political campaign in my life. You can quantify me as a lefty if it makes you feel better, but I'm really not one.

(10-13-2013 12:27 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  My voting history is about 60-40 overall, I'm a registered independent, and I've never donated to a political campaign in my life. You can quantify me as a lefty if it makes you feel better, but I'm really not one.

If claiming 60-40 floats your boat, be my guest. But if you plan to convince anyone else, we need to start seeing some of the 40.

(10-13-2013 12:27 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  My voting history is about 60-40 overall, I'm a registered independent, and I've never donated to a political campaign in my life. You can quantify me as a lefty if it makes you feel better, but I'm really not one.

You are a leftist. There is no doubt about it. You just haven't yet learned to step away from politics and observe it with disdain for both sides. You are very passionate and clearly enjoy politics and the left often does. Left wing politics truly invites DEEP passion and emotion.