(10-03-2013 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The no huddle offense has made its way into the NFL, and most of the rest of the nation in college football. The SEC can debate its benefits all they want. But its the coming trend. They can ignore it, but they do so at their own peril...

And Chip Kelly is finding out just how beneficial that really is...

(10-03-2013 04:39 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The no huddle offense has made its way into the NFL, and most of the rest of the nation in college football. The SEC can debate its benefits all they want. But its the coming trend. They can ignore it, but they do so at their own peril...

And Chip Kelly is finding out just how beneficial that really is...

Considering that Chip has yet to get the personnel he needs to run that offense, that's not all that surprising. Is it?

Give him a couple of years in Philly, and then let's readdress this topic...

(10-03-2013 04:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:39 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The no huddle offense has made its way into the NFL, and most of the rest of the nation in college football. The SEC can debate its benefits all they want. But its the coming trend. They can ignore it, but they do so at their own peril...

And Chip Kelly is finding out just how beneficial that really is...

Considering that Chip has yet to get the personnel he needs to run that offense, that's not all that surprising. Is it?

Give him a couple of years in Philly, and then let's readdress this topic...

Yeah, if you want to look at how the no-huddle can work in the NFL, look at a team that's running it with great personnel. Look at Denver.

Or Seattle, when they run that offense...

(10-03-2013 04:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 02:52 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Nobody's recruiting has suffered worse from our move than Oklahoma's so of course he has nothing but negativity to say about the SEC.

It always comes back to aTm eh Mountain? Can't decide who is more self-absorbed, you or Bob Stoops? I'm an OU fan/alum, and Bob should just shut up and kick some SEC ass on the field. I am starting to see some chinks in the SEC armor. Bring it, dont sing it Bob.

Maybe it's a coincidence that Stoops never had anything to say about the SEC before 2012 and kids started listening to Sumlins pitch of "why go to Norman when you can stay in state and play in the SEC?"

It just MIGHT be a coincidence! :)

If Stoops wants to say that SEC defenses are soft this year, there's plenty of evidence for that.

But if he is trying to criticize the notion that over the last several years, SEC defenses have been dominant, then the national title games prove him wrong.

E.g., in 2006, 2008, and 2010, SEC teams faced high-flying "point a minute" offenses from the B1G (Ohio State in 2006), the PAC (Oregon in 2010) and his own Oklahoma (in 2008), and in every case, they shut those offenses down, holding them to far less than their regular season averages.

It's actually happened twice to Stoops, as not only did Florida shut up his high-flying OK offense in the 2008 title game, LSU did the same in 2003.

Maybe that's why he's bitter?

(10-03-2013 06:19 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 02:52 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Nobody's recruiting has suffered worse from our move than Oklahoma's so of course he has nothing but negativity to say about the SEC.

It always comes back to aTm eh Mountain? Can't decide who is more self-absorbed, you or Bob Stoops? I'm an OU fan/alum, and Bob should just shut up and kick some SEC ass on the field. I am starting to see some chinks in the SEC armor. Bring it, dont sing it Bob.

Maybe it's a coincidence that Stoops never had anything to say about the SEC before 2012 and kids started listening to Sumlins pitch of "why go to Norman when you can stay in state and play in the SEC?"

It just MIGHT be a coincidence! :)

It's a coincidence. Bob has an ego, and he's always opened his mouth before engaging his brain. Sadly for you, it has zip to do with aTm.

(10-03-2013 07:32 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  It seems to me he's saying that SEC defenses are generally very very good and its almost impossible to roll up good yardage against them unless you have an elite college QB. It sounds to me like he's complimenting both the SEC and A&M.

Read the article

(10-03-2013 04:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:39 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The no huddle offense has made its way into the NFL, and most of the rest of the nation in college football. The SEC can debate its benefits all they want. But its the coming trend. They can ignore it, but they do so at their own peril...

And Chip Kelly is finding out just how beneficial that really is...

Considering that Chip has yet to get the personnel he needs to run that offense, that's not all that surprising. Is it?

Give him a couple of years in Philly, and then let's readdress this topic...

That assumes he gets a couple of years in Philly. You know the fanbase we're talking about here.

(10-03-2013 04:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:39 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The no huddle offense has made its way into the NFL, and most of the rest of the nation in college football. The SEC can debate its benefits all they want. But its the coming trend. They can ignore it, but they do so at their own peril...

And Chip Kelly is finding out just how beneficial that really is...

Considering that Chip has yet to get the personnel he needs to run that offense, that's not all that surprising. Is it?

Give him a couple of years in Philly, and then let's readdress this topic...

Chip Kelly will be back in college football in 2-years.

I actually had this conversation with a buddy of mine at work yesterday. In general, I DO think the SEC defenses are a bit over rated. I'm not saying they're not good, I'm simply saying they're not THAT good. What props them up is that the SEC as a conference doesn't seem to place a great deal of emphasis on the offense like it does the defense. SEC mentality seems to be to shut down the other team's offense and have an offense just good enough to put up a couple more points than the other guys. The merits of that mindset can be debated for ages vs. a mindset such as in Oregon where it seems more a matter of "put up enough points to put the game out of reach regardless". Both win games. HOWEVER, when you look at the SEC...they've been somewhat exposed of late. Florida lost to Miami, Georgia to Clemson, Tennessee to Oregon. In last year's Sugar Bowl Florida came in as the leading pass defense in the SEC, and how'd that work out? Ultimately, it certainly does appear that a more than serviceable QB should be able to handle an SEC defense.

(10-04-2013 07:49 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:39 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 12:56 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The no huddle offense has made its way into the NFL, and most of the rest of the nation in college football. The SEC can debate its benefits all they want. But its the coming trend. They can ignore it, but they do so at their own peril...

And Chip Kelly is finding out just how beneficial that really is...

Considering that Chip has yet to get the personnel he needs to run that offense, that's not all that surprising. Is it?

Give him a couple of years in Philly, and then let's readdress this topic...

That assumes he gets a couple of years in Philly. You know the fanbase we're talking about here.

You mean the folks who booed Vermeil when he got off the plane to take over the struggling Eagles? They'll wait a bit. They really don't have any choice in the matter right now. If they jettison Kelly without giving him a chance, who in their right mind would ever take charge of the Eagles again? Nobody IMO...

Level headed you and I talking, Bit....but we both know fans don't always see things in those terms.

(10-04-2013 08:20 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  I actually had this conversation with a buddy of mine at work yesterday. In general, I DO think the SEC defenses are a bit over rated. I'm not saying they're not good, I'm simply saying they're not THAT good. What props them up is that the SEC as a conference doesn't seem to place a great deal of emphasis on the offense like it does the defense. SEC mentality seems to be to shut down the other team's offense and have an offense just good enough to put up a couple more points than the other guys. The merits of that mindset can be debated for ages vs. a mindset such as in Oregon where it seems more a matter of "put up enough points to put the game out of reach regardless". Both win games. HOWEVER, when you look at the SEC...they've been somewhat exposed of late. Florida lost to Miami, Georgia to Clemson, Tennessee to Oregon. In last year's Sugar Bowl Florida came in as the leading pass defense in the SEC, and how'd that work out? Ultimately, it certainly does appear that a more than serviceable QB should be able to handle an SEC defense.

The Georgia / Clemson game was just a shoot out between two offensively minded and talented programs both of which have an Achilles heel with their current defenses. Florida, and I wish everyone got this through their heads, is an abhorrent offensive team, especially when Drischol is the quarterback. Their loss to Louisville last year, which was the better team, was due to offensive turnovers that set the Cardinals up and that Cardinals team needed no offensive help. To put that loss on Florida's defense is unjust. The Miami game was an offensive nightmare. They doubled the Canes in yardage and had 4 crucial turnovers most of which either occurred in one red zone or the other. And to use the over matched rebuilding Tennessee versus Oregon game as an example of collective weaker defense in the SEC is also spurious. Tennessee's defense was depleted and at best is a work in progress. Oregon is the most prolific offensive football team in the nation.

If you want to determine if SEC defenses are down you have to look at the conference in its entirety. When you do that I would say there are fewer teams playing great defense right now. But bad as their offense is Florida's defense is playing decently. Kentucky's defense is actually vastly improved compared to their offense. Mississippi State's defense is decent. Alabama's defense is beginning to gel into traditional Saban like form. Auburn's is slightly better (still very weak at middle linebacker). Ole Miss's defense is definitely better. Texas A&M, Georgia, Vanderbilt, South Carolina and Arkansas's defenses are either no better or worse.

I think your overall assessment is accurate, but not based upon the examples or the reasoning that you gave based upon them.

I disagree on some level. Certainly a couple of turnovers helped, and Louisville had the higher octane offense in that game...their defense wasn't able to hardly stop ANYTHING we did but the run. Even in plays where they knew we were going to throw, where we HAD to throw, they were giving up large sums of yardage. Their defense was exposed. Everyone knew their offense was mediocre at best...and I LIKE the Gators!

Another thing about SEC defenses is that they seem primarily geared towards stopping the run, probably because SEC offenses tend to be so run heavy. IF UK were to actually get the needed players to make it happen, their using an "Air Raid" style offense could give today's SEC fits because "why in the hell are they THROWING on 2nd down!?" Capable passing teams are the ones that I've noticed tend to do the best against SEC defenses in out of conference match ups. Don't plan on winning if you're coming in there with a power run first mentality...they see that every week.

(10-04-2013 10:25 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  I disagree on some level. Certainly a couple of turnovers helped, and Louisville had the higher octane offense in that game...their defense wasn't able to hardly stop ANYTHING we did but the run. Even in plays where they knew we were going to throw, where we HAD to throw, they were giving up large sums of yardage. Their defense was exposed. Everyone knew their offense was mediocre at best...and I LIKE the Gators!

Another thing about SEC defenses is that they seem primarily geared towards stopping the run, probably because SEC offenses tend to be so run heavy. IF UK were to actually get the needed players to make it happen, their using an "Air Raid" style offense could give today's SEC fits because "why in the hell are they THROWING on 2nd down!?" Capable passing teams are the ones that I've noticed tend to do the best against SEC defenses in out of conference match ups. Don't plan on winning if you're coming in there with a power run first mentality...they see that every week.

Fair enough. But do remember to take rules changes into consideration as well. Press coverage is more difficult now due to contact beyond the line of scrimmage being taken away (and I'm not talking about the prohibition on such contact when the ball is in the air). The emphasis on targeting is having some impact. Anytime a kid has to pause to think about how he is going to hit a ball carrier it takes away some of his natural aggressiveness. While the emphasis on reduced head shots is needed, when you add that to liberal interpretations of horse collar tackles, the touching of the face mask, the liberal rules on holding by offensive players, the quicker pace of the game, it was inevitable that defenses everywhere, including the SEC, were going to suffer. When a back is coming at you with his body leaning forward and his head low, if you don't have forward momentum of your own he's going to break your tackle. If you hesitate because of fear of penalty he has the advantage. It takes it toll because your best approach to tackling him is to get lower and drive into him, but if he leads with the crown of his helmet you are likely to hit his head with yours, or grasp the first thing you contact, his helmet, long before you can hit his waist and wrap up his legs. The balance between offensive and defensive advantages is now clearly lost in favor of the offenses.

Kentucky tried the air raid under Hal Mumme and SEC defenses adjusted to it relatively easily.

(10-04-2013 10:53 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Kentucky tried the air raid under Hal Mumme and SEC defenses adjusted to it relatively easily.

But they couldn't tackle the offensive lineman he had playing QB...

(10-04-2013 08:20 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  I actually had this conversation with a buddy of mine at work yesterday. In general, I DO think the SEC defenses are a bit over rated. I'm not saying they're not good, I'm simply saying they're not THAT good. What props them up is that the SEC as a conference doesn't seem to place a great deal of emphasis on the offense like it does the defense. SEC mentality seems to be to shut down the other team's offense and have an offense just good enough to put up a couple more points than the other guys. The merits of that mindset can be debated for ages vs. a mindset such as in Oregon where it seems more a matter of "put up enough points to put the game out of reach regardless". Both win games. HOWEVER, when you look at the SEC...they've been somewhat exposed of late. Florida lost to Miami, Georgia to Clemson, Tennessee to Oregon. In last year's Sugar Bowl Florida came in as the leading pass defense in the SEC, and how'd that work out? Ultimately, it certainly does appear that a more than serviceable QB should be able to handle an SEC defense.

You brought up Oregon, so remember back three years ago when Auburn beat them in the championship game. Auburn's defense typically allowed about 17 to 30 points per game. Oregon scored 19 on them. Oregon's defense had been holding teams to 13 to 30 points. Auburn scored 22 on them. Both had been scoring around 40 to 60 points a game.

What does this tell us based on the limited times we get to see elite teams play each other out of conference? These offenses and defenses typically are not as good or bad as we paint them to be when we just watch conference play. The offensive prowess of Oregon and the defensive prowess of the SEC, in general, are probably inflated at times. However, keep in mind that when the SEC has played someone else in a championship game, that opposing conference school rarely scores half of the points that they usually score in conference (the exception being the 2007 Ohio State team.), and the SEC team usually scores at or above their regular season average. The only real thing that can be read from the last 7 years is that the SEC's best team shows up for the big games. I really think having to play that SEC championship game is a huge advantage for the SEC. It has every bit of the drama and pressure of the national championship game. I think the PAC and B1G will soon start to see just how valuable their championship games will be to prepare their top squad, assuming they get a challenge from the opponent.

(10-04-2013 10:59 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-04-2013 10:53 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Kentucky tried the air raid under Hal Mumme and SEC defenses adjusted to it relatively easily.

But they couldn't tackle the offensive lineman he had playing QB...

I miss that guy. He is still a favorite.