I think that everyone should have a chance to receive healthcare. But it's not the government's responsibility to make sure people have it. Somewhere between WWI(II) the FED's/people lost touch on what the responsibilities of the Federal Government really is. More than half of the budget can be sent to the states and let the states decide how to fix certain things.

(10-02-2013 09:59 PM)DFWMINER Wrote:  When you force someone to buy health care, yeah that's a problem. It's not how this country is suppose to work.

This^^^^

(10-02-2013 09:36 PM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  Just curious...

Health care or health insurance?

Obamacare provides health insurance for everyone. It will not provide health care for everyone. In fact, it may make health care unavailable for many for whom it is currently available.

There is no problem with everyone receiving health care in the country.

There is a philosophical problem with "positive rights". Ultimately, positive rights are contradictory to natural rights (or "negative rights").

(10-03-2013 01:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 09:36 PM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  Just curious...

Health care or health insurance?

Obamacare provides health insurance for everyone. It will not provide health care for everyone. In fact, it may make health care unavailable for many for whom it is currently available.

Yah! Progress?!?

(10-02-2013 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We're going to increase demand by adding 30 million to the insurance rolls, and cut costs by paying docs and other providers less, which will have the inevitable consequence of reducing supply. Tell me how this is going to work without shortages, delays, queues, poor quality and ultimately price spikes.

More people will have health insurance, fewer will have health care.

Curious. When I said that, you called me out for using a talking point and you even disagreed with it. Now, it serves your purpose???

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:We are supposedly increasing demand by adding 30 million insureds (although it's looking like that number is going to be a lot smaller, and the NET number might end up negative).

(10-02-2013 10:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We're going to increase demand by adding 30 million to the insurance rolls, and cut costs by paying docs and other providers less, which will have the inevitable consequence of reducing supply. Tell me how this is going to work without shortages, delays, queues, poor quality and ultimately price spikes.

More people will have health insurance, fewer will have health care.

Those are issues that can be resolved. Right now the acceptance rate at medical schools is around 10%. I say build more schools until that rises to 20%.

Somewhere that has to be part of the solution...but if you knew anything about current pre-med students, it would terrify you to see the 10-20% group practicing medicine.

(10-03-2013 01:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 09:36 PM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  Just curious...

Health care or health insurance?

Obamacare provides health insurance for everyone. It will not provide health care for everyone. In fact, it may make health care unavailable for many for whom it is currently available.

Exactly. too many simpletons equating having some form of "insurance" to getting health care.

If you currently pay nothing and are generally healthy, but on a relatively tight budget, are you suddenly going to go out and get insurance and pay a hundred a month or so? Complete with a 60/40 split and deductible of 5 grand or so? Of course not. You'll pay the 95 bucks for the fine and be done with it.

Without the young, healthy, waiters and waitresses out there signing up, this thing is unsustainable. Funny, these poor suckers that voted for this foolishness are the same ones that are woefully underemployed, if employed at all, and are also the lynchpin that is supposed to make this ponzi scheme work.

When they walk away en masse and simply decide to roll the dice and remain uninsured (by choice, it is still a choice, correct?) how does this thing work?

Any of you bootlickers want to take a shot at that one?

I'm sorry, but who in this country didn't have healthcare?

(10-02-2013 09:36 PM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  Just curious...

Wasn't everyone getting healthcare? Just curious.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

(10-02-2013 10:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  repubs just dont like that the dems finally passed their biggest agenda legislation peice......and did so at the helm of a black democratic presiden

You could save yourself a lot of insult if you could move away from racism. This is why everyone here and on the sports board call you a troll and the biggest idiot on this board.

Let's not forget that paying out of pocket is cheaper than paying for insurance. How else do insurance companies make money?

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

(10-02-2013 09:36 PM)psualltheway5 Wrote:  Just curious...

No. Anything else?

(10-02-2013 10:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We're going to increase demand by adding 30 million to the insurance rolls, and cut costs by paying docs and other providers less, which will have the inevitable consequence of reducing supply. Tell me how this is going to work without shortages, delays, queues, poor quality and ultimately price spikes.

More people will have health insurance, fewer will have health care.

Those are issues that can be resolved. Right now the acceptance rate at medical schools is around 10%. I say build more schools until that rises to 20% (but make those doctors actually serve the public in primary or needed care). We'll just import more doctors from overseas (just like were doing now). Remove the Certificate of need prohibition on competition enjoyed by hospitals.

Geez, I wonder what affect that will have on the quality of the doctors.

(10-03-2013 02:12 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We're going to increase demand by adding 30 million to the insurance rolls, and cut costs by paying docs and other providers less, which will have the inevitable consequence of reducing supply. Tell me how this is going to work without shortages, delays, queues, poor quality and ultimately price spikes.

More people will have health insurance, fewer will have health care.

Those are issues that can be resolved. Right now the acceptance rate at medical schools is around 10%. I say build more schools until that rises to 20% (but make those doctors actually serve the public in primary or needed care). We'll just import more doctors from overseas (just like were doing now). Remove the Certificate of need prohibition on competition enjoyed by hospitals.

Geez, I wonder what affect that will have on the quality of the doctors.

Creating a new problem to solve a problem It's the govt way.

(10-03-2013 02:15 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 02:12 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We're going to increase demand by adding 30 million to the insurance rolls, and cut costs by paying docs and other providers less, which will have the inevitable consequence of reducing supply. Tell me how this is going to work without shortages, delays, queues, poor quality and ultimately price spikes.

More people will have health insurance, fewer will have health care.

Those are issues that can be resolved. Right now the acceptance rate at medical schools is around 10%. I say build more schools until that rises to 20% (but make those doctors actually serve the public in primary or needed care). We'll just import more doctors from overseas (just like were doing now). Remove the Certificate of need prohibition on competition enjoyed by hospitals.

Geez, I wonder what affect that will have on the quality of the doctors.

Creating a new problem to solve a problem It's the govt way.

Create a new problem to "solve" a problem created by the government. See Obamacare.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

I don't have a problem with the government attempting to reform our health care system.

(10-03-2013 02:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I don't have a problem with the government attempting to reform our health care system.

Let them do it w/ your system, leave the rest of us alone.

(10-03-2013 02:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I don't have a problem with the government attempting to reform our health care system.

Who gives a sh*t, that wasn't the question.

(10-03-2013 02:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I don't have a problem with the government attempting to reform our health care system.

Screwing it up isn't exactly reforming though.