(10-10-2013 11:56 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think a lot of schools are having to deal with what are essentially 'kids' these days with higher GPAs from high schools where they learned nothing but were given a grade. It's part of the reason all of these schools offer remedial math and even now remedial English/History/Hard Science courses.

It was for this reason one of my brother's kids were home schooled. One of his boys is now in the Navy study Nuclear Engineering. The other is in the Air Force trying to get into OCS, so he can become a pilot instead of a jet mechanic. His daughter is the smartest one of the bunch, and she just started college, majoring in pre-med...

(10-10-2013 11:56 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think a lot of schools are having to deal with what are essentially 'kids' these days with higher GPAs from high schools where they learned nothing but were given a grade. It's part of the reason all of these schools offer remedial math and even now remedial English/History/Hard Science courses.

Schools also make more money off of kids that take 5 years or 6 years to earn a 4 year degree. Starting them dumber is good for the bottom line, unfortunately. And people don't tend to want to change those things that enhance the bottom line. It's like high schools and ADD & ADHD. For every child diagnosed with either of the disorders Federal grant money gave the school an extra $70 per child. If the school psychologist (not psychiatrist or physician) diagnosed enough of them it turned into quite a nice revenue enhancement for the entire school system of a county. Therefore for adolescent males going through puberty with additional hormones begging for activity the schools cut out recess, and in some cases P.E. and add high sugar foods to the lunch menu. Guess what that recipe yielded....you got it, a pot load of kids matching the symptoms of ADD and ADHD.

I was a kid during the high point of the ridilin(sp) epidemic where teachers just wanted classes full of zombies. My mother wouldn't put me on it, which I'm greatful for and I was blessed that my mother had both the intelligence and education to supplement my education along with the time to do it. Unfortunately, many parents today don't have the tools I mentioned or the drive to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that the schools sure dont mind adding some hours to a degree for the cash but at the same time acceptance rates for good schools is dropping along with the number of kids who are truly prepared for school.

The higher education scene is in an arms race to compete for more kids and more loan dollars.

That's getting a bit off topic but it all comes back to failing K-12 schools that are having an effect on everything. There was a day when 3.5 was a 3.5 GPA but in today's world of inflated grades and deflated learning we're still operating as if that were impressive and cramming our schools with unqualified students who flood overcrowded job markets .

Rant over. My bad y'all.

(10-10-2013 02:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I was a kid during the high point of the ridilin(sp) epidemic where teachers just wanted classes full of zombies. My mother wouldn't put me on it, which I'm greatful for and I was blessed that my mother had both the intelligence and education to supplement my education along with the time to do it. Unfortunately, many parents today don't have the tools I mentioned or the drive to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that the schools sure dont mind adding some hours to a degree for the cash but at the same time acceptance rates for good schools is dropping along with the number of kids who are truly prepared for school.

The higher education scene is in an arms race to compete for more kids and more loan dollars.

That's getting a bit off topic but it all comes back to failing K-12 schools that are having an effect on everything. There was a day when 3.5 was a 3.5 GPA but in today's world of inflated grades and deflated learning we're still operating as if that were impressive and cramming our schools with unqualified students who flood overcrowded job markets .

Rant over. My bad y'all.

Don't worry Dixie, you'll find that the threads over hear are like back country roads. They meander a lot but eventually get to where you wanna go.

To your point, unless vo-tech skills are reintroduced in high schools I can easily see many boys losing interest in school past 16 y.o. You'd be better off just independently studying to pass the GRE and going to a tech college or enlisting. I'm not really stressing about college since its the next bubble that we'll see pop. I'm really looking forward to a good laugh when the gov't tries to apply Title IX to STEM programs.

(10-10-2013 02:46 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 02:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I was a kid during the high point of the ridilin(sp) epidemic where teachers just wanted classes full of zombies. My mother wouldn't put me on it, which I'm greatful for and I was blessed that my mother had both the intelligence and education to supplement my education along with the time to do it. Unfortunately, many parents today don't have the tools I mentioned or the drive to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that the schools sure dont mind adding some hours to a degree for the cash but at the same time acceptance rates for good schools is dropping along with the number of kids who are truly prepared for school.

The higher education scene is in an arms race to compete for more kids and more loan dollars.

That's getting a bit off topic but it all comes back to failing K-12 schools that are having an effect on everything. There was a day when 3.5 was a 3.5 GPA but in today's world of inflated grades and deflated learning we're still operating as if that were impressive and cramming our schools with unqualified students who flood overcrowded job markets .

Rant over. My bad y'all.

Don't worry Dixie, you'll find that the threads over hear are like back country roads. They meander a lot but eventually get to where you wanna go.

To your point, unless vo-tech skills are reintroduced in high schools I can easily see many boys losing interest in school past 16 y.o. You'd be better off just independently studying to pass the GRE and going to a tech college or enlisting. I'm not really stressing about college since its the next bubble that we'll see pop. I'm really looking forward to a good laugh when the gov't tries to apply Title IX to STEM programs.

I think that's a good point.

The cold, hard, nasty, fact that I think many don't want to accept is that college is not for everybody. On the flip-side, having, or not having, a college degree is not, in itself, proof of, or a lack of, intelligence.

(10-10-2013 02:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I was a kid during the high point of the ridilin(sp) epidemic where teachers just wanted classes full of zombies. My mother wouldn't put me on it, which I'm greatful for and I was blessed that my mother had both the intelligence and education to supplement my education along with the time to do it. Unfortunately, many parents today don't have the tools I mentioned or the drive to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that the schools sure dont mind adding some hours to a degree for the cash but at the same time acceptance rates for good schools is dropping along with the number of kids who are truly prepared for school.

The higher education scene is in an arms race to compete for more kids and more loan dollars.

That's getting a bit off topic but it all comes back to failing K-12 schools that are having an effect on everything. There was a day when 3.5 was a 3.5 GPA but in today's world of inflated grades and deflated learning we're still operating as if that were impressive and cramming our schools with unqualified students who flood overcrowded job markets .

Rant over. My bad y'all.

I don't call that a rant as much as I do a testimony. The qualified applicants are dropping today for the reasons you suggest, but also because the degrees they earn no longer guarantee them a job sufficient in salary to repay the loans they acquired getting the degree. Simple economics always come into play. The top 5% of the students will, for the most part, find themselves in professional degree programs whether in aero-space engineering, medicine, structural engineering, or some related essential field that guarantees that their skills sets will be sought. That is why the pursuit of research grants are essential for the continued development of the SEC's academic pursuits. We must compete for that top 5% with every bit the advantages that they could find elsewhere. If we do not then the total quality of the other 95% of the students will continue to pull us down, even as their numbers decline.

(10-10-2013 02:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 02:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I was a kid during the high point of the ridilin(sp) epidemic where teachers just wanted classes full of zombies. My mother wouldn't put me on it, which I'm greatful for and I was blessed that my mother had both the intelligence and education to supplement my education along with the time to do it. Unfortunately, many parents today don't have the tools I mentioned or the drive to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that the schools sure dont mind adding some hours to a degree for the cash but at the same time acceptance rates for good schools is dropping along with the number of kids who are truly prepared for school.

The higher education scene is in an arms race to compete for more kids and more loan dollars.

That's getting a bit off topic but it all comes back to failing K-12 schools that are having an effect on everything. There was a day when 3.5 was a 3.5 GPA but in today's world of inflated grades and deflated learning we're still operating as if that were impressive and cramming our schools with unqualified students who flood overcrowded job markets .

Rant over. My bad y'all.

I don't call that a rant as much as I do a testimony. The qualified applicants are dropping today for the reasons you suggest, but also because the degrees they earn no longer guarantee them a job sufficient in salary to repay the loans they acquired getting the degree. Simple economics always come into play. The top 5% of the students will, for the most part, find themselves in professional degree programs whether in aero-space engineering, medicine, structural engineering, or some related essential field that guarantees that their skills sets will be sought. That is why the pursuit of research grants are essential for the continued development of the SEC's academic pursuits. We must compete for that top 5% with every bit the advantages that they could find elsewhere. If we do not then the total quality of the other 95% of the students will continue to pull us down, even as their numbers decline.

You highlighted the importance of academic standing perfectly. It's unfortunate but we all know research and standing often times walk hand in hand.

(10-10-2013 02:46 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 02:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I was a kid during the high point of the ridilin(sp) epidemic where teachers just wanted classes full of zombies. My mother wouldn't put me on it, which I'm greatful for and I was blessed that my mother had both the intelligence and education to supplement my education along with the time to do it. Unfortunately, many parents today don't have the tools I mentioned or the drive to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that the schools sure dont mind adding some hours to a degree for the cash but at the same time acceptance rates for good schools is dropping along with the number of kids who are truly prepared for school.

The higher education scene is in an arms race to compete for more kids and more loan dollars.

That's getting a bit off topic but it all comes back to failing K-12 schools that are having an effect on everything. There was a day when 3.5 was a 3.5 GPA but in today's world of inflated grades and deflated learning we're still operating as if that were impressive and cramming our schools with unqualified students who flood overcrowded job markets .

Rant over. My bad y'all.

Don't worry Dixie, you'll find that the threads over hear are like back country roads. They meander a lot but eventually get to where you wanna go.

To your point, unless vo-tech skills are reintroduced in high schools I can easily see many boys losing interest in school past 16 y.o. You'd be better off just independently studying to pass the GRE and going to a tech college or enlisting. I'm not really stressing about college since its the next bubble that we'll see pop. I'm really looking forward to a good laugh when the gov't tries to apply Title IX to STEM programs.

I often hear talking heads worry about why males are not graduating from college at the same rate as women. I am not that far removed from college, so I can speak a bit from opinion. Many universities are now a place for boys, not men. Not only are the classes geared toward inclusion (aka watered down), but they are frequently conducted by academics who have never lived in a world where the quality of their product or service is rewarded accordingly. There are many bleeding hearts who treat education as a mission, but is that who we want training us and our children to be the best and brightest? What man with true responsibilities or ambition sees a saturated market where his efforts will be underpaid and improperly scrutinized to the point of ineffectiveness, yet decides to stay on such a career path? Many of the ones who stay are boys themselves, regardless of their age. It is a boy who is afraid of calculated risk and seeks to appease the sentimentality of others who also are averse to calculated risk.

I cannot speak for every man, but I can speak as one who ceased attending my graduate program after 18 hours with a nearly 4.0 GPA because the charade of higher learning became nauseating. I dropped from my program, took my piddly bachelor's degree to the open market in business, and instantly made double what I would have made had I continued in my graduate program.

It is a shame, because I was better at the career I intended to pursue through graduate study. However, as a man, I refuse to be part of a system that no longer seeks to make men. If you are a man in the education system, make sure you are optimizing your own potential and making men of your male students. Otherwise, you are feeding the problem.

To the point about vocational/tech training... the only condition that a truly successful person will ever train another is if they receive more in return. Why does a blacksmith, welder, electrician, plumber, attorney, chemist, or CEO take on an apprentice or intern? If it is self sacrificial and for the good of society, they are not doing their apprentice or intern any good. It should be because that professional took a calculated approach and believes that taking on such a person and training them will enhance his career. A free or vastly under-priced apprentice who learns how to function as the professional gains invaluable training while providing actual value to the professional. A win-win, as they say. When is the last time that you heard about an educational venture funded by public dollars where at least one heart was not bleeding? Those placed in a position over me who claim to be there from a bleeding heart offer me nothing of value, and neither do those who have authority over our children. In case you didn't put two and two together, I used to be such a person. I'm glad it only took me two years to see the sham.

By the way, "bleeding heart" is typically followed by the word "liberal", but I do not mean it in that political sense at all. I have seen plenty of them on both sides, in the middle, and all around. This is a man vs. boy and woman vs. girl issue, nothing more or less.

There's a great deal of validity to your argument Blue. Part of me suspects (and I'm sure JR could go into greater detail) but watering down of education is a way to extend childhood. The nefarious POV would use staying in school until you're 26-28 could be utilized for either delaying ones entry into the workforce or producing a more compliant citizen who favors the government.

I ascribe to the path of least resistance theory that was mentioned previously; why do the hard work when there's no reward in it? Take the easy major, get your parent to cajole the administration to pass you and seek sinecure upon graduation. Why strive for manhood when being a boy and abdicating responsibility to someone else will make your life a whole lot easier?

I remember my Korean physics teacher 30 years ago saying the quality of American education had declined, and would continue to do so, because the bottom 5% of most graduating classes tended to end up as teachers. He went on to say that the top 5% of Korean college graduates had to become teachers. He made a good bit of sense, when you think about it.

(10-10-2013 04:32 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I remember my Korean physics teacher 30 years ago saying the quality of American education had declined, and would continue to do so, because the bottom 5% of most graduating classes tended to end up as teachers. He went on to say that the top 5% of Korean college graduates had to become teachers. He made a good bit of sense, when you think about it.

... I hope those Koreans that had to become teachers were paid accordingly. I would say 50%-100% more than the top earners in their field would be about right.

(10-10-2013 04:41 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 04:32 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I remember my Korean physics teacher 30 years ago saying the quality of American education had declined, and would continue to do so, because the bottom 5% of most graduating classes tended to end up as teachers. He went on to say that the top 5% of Korean college graduates had to become teachers. He made a good bit of sense, when you think about it.

... I hope those Koreans that had to become teachers were paid accordingly. I would say 50%-100% more than the top earners in their field would be about right.

I couldn't tell you about that. It's outside my field of expertise or interest...

Don't even get us all started on graduate schools.

One thing I think guides people too much because they, kids, don't get it is the fact that people make statistics; statistics don't make people.

Just remember, Mark Twain said, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"...

(10-10-2013 03:20 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 02:46 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 02:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I was a kid during the high point of the ridilin(sp) epidemic where teachers just wanted classes full of zombies. My mother wouldn't put me on it, which I'm greatful for and I was blessed that my mother had both the intelligence and education to supplement my education along with the time to do it. Unfortunately, many parents today don't have the tools I mentioned or the drive to do it.

I agree wholeheartedly that the schools sure dont mind adding some hours to a degree for the cash but at the same time acceptance rates for good schools is dropping along with the number of kids who are truly prepared for school.

The higher education scene is in an arms race to compete for more kids and more loan dollars.

That's getting a bit off topic but it all comes back to failing K-12 schools that are having an effect on everything. There was a day when 3.5 was a 3.5 GPA but in today's world of inflated grades and deflated learning we're still operating as if that were impressive and cramming our schools with unqualified students who flood overcrowded job markets .

Rant over. My bad y'all.

Don't worry Dixie, you'll find that the threads over hear are like back country roads. They meander a lot but eventually get to where you wanna go.

To your point, unless vo-tech skills are reintroduced in high schools I can easily see many boys losing interest in school past 16 y.o. You'd be better off just independently studying to pass the GRE and going to a tech college or enlisting. I'm not really stressing about college since its the next bubble that we'll see pop. I'm really looking forward to a good laugh when the gov't tries to apply Title IX to STEM programs.

I often hear talking heads worry about why males are not graduating from college at the same rate as women. I am not that far removed from college, so I can speak a bit from opinion. Many universities are now a place for boys, not men. Not only are the classes geared toward inclusion (aka watered down), but they are frequently conducted by academics who have never lived in a world where the quality of their product or service is rewarded accordingly. There are many bleeding hearts who treat education as a mission, but is that who we want training us and our children to be the best and brightest? What man with true responsibilities or ambition sees a saturated market where his efforts will be underpaid and improperly scrutinized to the point of ineffectiveness, yet decides to stay on such a career path? Many of the ones who stay are boys themselves, regardless of their age. It is a boy who is afraid of calculated risk and seeks to appease the sentimentality of others who also are averse to calculated risk.

I cannot speak for every man, but I can speak as one who ceased attending my graduate program after 18 hours with a nearly 4.0 GPA because the charade of higher learning became nauseating. I dropped from my program, took my piddly bachelor's degree to the open market in business, and instantly made double what I would have made had I continued in my graduate program.

It is a shame, because I was better at the career I intended to pursue through graduate study. However, as a man, I refuse to be part of a system that no longer seeks to make men. If you are a man in the education system, make sure you are optimizing your own potential and making men of your male students. Otherwise, you are feeding the problem.

To the point about vocational/tech training... the only condition that a truly successful person will ever train another is if they receive more in return. Why does a blacksmith, welder, electrician, plumber, attorney, chemist, or CEO take on an apprentice or intern? If it is self sacrificial and for the good of society, they are not doing their apprentice or intern any good. It should be because that professional took a calculated approach and believes that taking on such a person and training them will enhance his career. A free or vastly under-priced apprentice who learns how to function as the professional gains invaluable training while providing actual value to the professional. A win-win, as they say. When is the last time that you heard about an educational venture funded by public dollars where at least one heart was not bleeding? Those placed in a position over me who claim to be there from a bleeding heart offer me nothing of value, and neither do those who have authority over our children. In case you didn't put two and two together, I used to be such a person. I'm glad it only took me two years to see the sham.

By the way, "bleeding heart" is typically followed by the word "liberal", but I do not mean it in that political sense at all. I have seen plenty of them on both sides, in the middle, and all around. This is a man vs. boy and woman vs. girl issue, nothing more or less.

Bully for you BBB. Excellent post! If I could add to your rep I would. The only point I would add is this, those "bleeding hearts" are really corporately funded gatekeepers who don't want a world in which the individual perseveres by their own initiative and profits by their own self direction. That is the antithesis of the drones that the corporate model requires to thrive. A man of initiative might be able to analyze the issues that make the corporation mediocre and build upon them for private profit. So if you control the banks and business loans, you stalemate the patent system to make sure a better idea doesn't ruin your model of planned obsolescence, you seek political advantages through tax breaks over your independent competitors, and you influence the education system to produce educated underachievers who work without question in your system, then you have what you want and what we find in education.

I have a friend who shares a hobby with me who is a CEO at an international financial corporation. His company helps fund the computer science wing at a small state college. I asked him one day if they got the best students from that college to come to his company. He said, "Absolutely not." We don't want A students managing computers transferring cash. We wan't C students because they aren't smart enough to get away with stealing. There you have it.

You brought up another point JR, and sorry to bring it off point again.

In the hiring I've done, which admittedly isn't an awful lot, I've learned that there is a sweet spot for hiring the best folks. In my field I want the kid that made As and Bs for the most part, even more of the ladder.

Gaming a messed up system for a 4.0 doesn't show me how good of a lawyer you are. It shows you can game a system but little else.

(10-10-2013 05:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You brought up another point JR, and sorry to bring it off point again.

In the hiring I've done, which admittedly isn't an awful lot, I've learned that there is a sweet spot for hiring the best folks. In my field I want the kid that made As and Bs for the most part, even more of the ladder.

Gaming a messed up system for a 4.0 doesn't show me how good of a lawyer you are. It shows you can game a system but little else.

Brother that is the truth. If there is one thing that inflated grades are producing it is a whole generation of scam artists, probably best employed by Wall Street investment firms, and as Congressional aides, at least until they are in the system enough to run for office themselves.

That's very true.

I have an adjunct position at a local university and I just recently had to deal with midterm papers in Constitutional Law and Criminal Law.

My Crim class had an average in the D range and I've never had so much abuse hurled my way.

These are 300 level course and not a single kid could put together a 5 page paper with a proper introduction, body, and conclusion that was relevant, on point, or executed properly. The grammar was even worse to the point where I didn't even count it against them in the final grades because they would have been Fs almost across the board.

I let them rewrite the papers from top to bottom to improve their grade because I don't want to ruin anything for them but then again I wouldn't be doing them any good if I slapped an A on a paper that just wouldn't cut it in the real world. On top of that I circled every single mistake, issue, error and gave them a comment on top of handwriting a page or so a piece telling them what was wrong and what to correct.

It's sad and something that to me says an awful lot about today's kids.

To me, school is to prepare you for the real world. If you can't write effectively enough to convey a point then you will struggle, especially in careers that will require you to write effectively all the time. Like I told them, to an ocean of glares and 'yea rights,' at work what they did would have gotten them fired.

(10-10-2013 07:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That's very true.

I have an adjunct position at a local university and I just recently had to deal with midterm papers in Constitutional Law and Criminal Law.

My Crim class had an average in the D range and I've never had so much abuse hurled my way.

These are 300 level course and not a single kid could put together a 5 page paper with a proper introduction, body, and conclusion that was relevant, on point, or executed properly. The grammar was even worse to the point where I didn't even count it against them in the final grades because they would have been Fs almost across the board.

I let them rewrite the papers from top to bottom to improve their grade because I don't want to ruin anything for them but then again I wouldn't be doing them any good if I slapped an A on a paper that just wouldn't cut it in the real world. On top of that I circled every single mistake, issue, error and gave them a comment on top of handwriting a page or so a piece telling them what was wrong and what to correct.

It's sad and something that to me says an awful lot about today's kids.

To me, school is to prepare you for the real world. If you can't write effectively enough to convey a point then you will struggle, especially in careers that will require you to write effectively all the time. Like I told them, to an ocean of glares and 'yea rights,' at work what they did would have gotten them fired.

After my youngest son graduated high school, he asked me what the difference between a bank deposit and withdrawal was. I was floored. He's actually a smart kid but basic business and finance classes were not mandatory. I cannot imagine why business classes are not mandatory in every high school. It's an important life skill. I remember teaching a second lieutenant nurse type how to balance a check book. Unbelievable stuff. We were tracking the NYSE as freshmen in business class in 1969. Of course Shakespeare and Greek mythology are required courses of study in literature here, which I am sure prepares you for the real world. I was never asked to quote Shakespeare or Edgar Allen Poe to a prospective employer during a job interview. Really cool to recite to the ladies, or read on a park bench while feeding the pigeons I guess. I agree that English Comp is so very important, and many of our youth only know how to spell "PlayStation Three" now.

(10-11-2013 01:26 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 07:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That's very true.

I have an adjunct position at a local university and I just recently had to deal with midterm papers in Constitutional Law and Criminal Law.

My Crim class had an average in the D range and I've never had so much abuse hurled my way.

These are 300 level course and not a single kid could put together a 5 page paper with a proper introduction, body, and conclusion that was relevant, on point, or executed properly. The grammar was even worse to the point where I didn't even count it against them in the final grades because they would have been Fs almost across the board.

I let them rewrite the papers from top to bottom to improve their grade because I don't want to ruin anything for them but then again I wouldn't be doing them any good if I slapped an A on a paper that just wouldn't cut it in the real world. On top of that I circled every single mistake, issue, error and gave them a comment on top of handwriting a page or so a piece telling them what was wrong and what to correct.

It's sad and something that to me says an awful lot about today's kids.

To me, school is to prepare you for the real world. If you can't write effectively enough to convey a point then you will struggle, especially in careers that will require you to write effectively all the time. Like I told them, to an ocean of glares and 'yea rights,' at work what they did would have gotten them fired.

After my youngest son graduated high school, he asked me what the difference between a bank deposit and withdrawal was. I was floored. He's actually a smart kid but basic business and finance classes were not mandatory. I cannot imagine why business classes are not mandatory in every high school. It's an important life skill. I remember teaching a second lieutenant nurse type how to balance a check book. Unbelievable stuff. We were tracking the NYSE as freshmen in business class in 1969. Of course Shakespeare and Greek mythology are required courses of study in literature here, which I am sure prepares you for the real world. I was never asked to quote Shakespeare or Edgar Allen Poe to a prospective employer during a job interview. Really cool to recite to the ladies, or read on a park bench while feeding the pigeons I guess.

Well Medic it could be that if the kids don't know how to stay out of debt they can be counted upon to buy all the unnecessary trendy crap that keeps them in servitude to credit card companies the rest of their lives. In the hours I've spent helping others get a grasp on their finances the biggest obstacle is to get them to understand how interest works either for them or against them and to help them understand why saving something every month is important. Usually the other thing I have to help them with is in understanding the difference between necessities and wants. Most of them think if it is something their friends have it is a necessity. The vast majority of them never think about what the actual cost of something is. They just want to know the minimum monthly payment.