As we have been discussing "best fit" and other factors associated with conference realignment, it is hard to take off the rose colored glasses as it concerns the SEC. However, as Nashville continues to grow and become more cosmopolitan, I have to think that in the next decade, an ACC that survives and retains its current membership would afford Vanderbilt all of the benefits that they seek from academic and athletic associations.

Vanderbilt recruits its students primarily from the Nashville area, the northeast, and international. New York state is actually the #2 state in terms of student body behind Tennessee. Athletically, the ACC affords frequent trips and competition in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. They would also be in conference with many of the best private schools on the east coast in places where they want to recruit students.

As a Nashville local, I can say honestly that anyone who has not been to town in several years would have a hard time associating the downtown and metropolitan population as typical SEC. The new population in Nashville is from the midwest and northeast due to career opportunities combined quality of life. Sure, Nashville gets a ton of new citizens from surrounding border states, but they are not living in the downtown area or especially around Vanderbilt, nor will they ever adopt Vandy as their team. Vandy does not have a single school in the SEC that considers them to be their 1st or 2nd biggest rival. Despite the efforts the SEC tries to put on the UT/Vandy games, UT has always considered Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Kentucky to be bigger games than Vandy. The closest thing that Vandy has to an equal rival is Ole Miss, but that is still just a #3 vs. #3 rival from each side, at best.

The truth is that Vanderbilt alumni have and will always have priorities that differ from the state/flagship schools. Their alumni are rarely a combination of born and bred who stay in the Nashville area. Most of Vandy's grads are opportunity chasers, and they go where they will be challenged and have room to advance. Sometimes that means staying in Nashville, but there are only so many high level opportunities that one city can provide the continual stream of M.D.'s and Ph.D.'s being pumped out. This situation is not unique among elite private schools, many of which are currently in the ACC. Why not join peers? Most of us who have thoughts about realignment agree that striving to associate with peers is an ultimate goal.

It is a win-win for all parties. The SEC does not need Vandy to continue owning the Tennessee markets, and the ACC would be able to add the 29th market in the nation. In the next ten years, the SEC academic situation will become even better because most of the schools should be top 100 by that point (that is very attainable for Tennessee, Kentucky, and South Carolina), plus any new SEC adds down the road will likely be top 100 schools. The best situation would be a trade of Vandy to the ACC for NC State or Va. Tech. I simply do not see UNC or UVA leaving a surviving ACC, but I can definitely see NC State or Va. Tech in a TAMU/UT situation.

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Pros or Cons? It is also very likely that the TV contract bubble will have burst or will be close to bursting in 10 years. I'm not confident that the difference between the next round of conference TV contracts will be substantial. I would ask for Vandy fans on here to chime in, but...

By the way, it should be noted that I am writing about this because it affords a win-win for all parties, in my opinion. I would never post anything inflammatory as it concerns an SEC member. This board has done of good job of keeping an open mind about opinions and viewpoints, and my statements about Vandy come from a respect for their school and a healthy understanding of the SEC and ACC cultures and what each affords.

Looks good on paper for the SEC and perhaps Vandy does fit in better with the ACC but would Vandy really want to make that move? I think they are probably loving the spotlight the SEC gives them.

I also don't think V Tech and NC State would be particularly fond of the idea.

On paper it is nice theory but so was my theory that the Big Ten could go to 20 with a bunch of teams from the ACC. In the end though, the human factor can really mess up a great theory.

Interesting idea, but I don't see Vandy pulling a GT

GT May act like they're happy but plenty of them will tell you they'd take an offer to come back instantly and be in a southern football conference again so they don't have to beg borrow and plead to fill their stadium

You make solid points but I feel that vandy is content with the status quo. It would be a shame to see such a good school fall under the reign of Unc.

The best solution BBB is none of the above. It would be the following:

A new conference of Private School Athletic Conference:

East: Army, Boston College, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Temple

South: Duke, Miami, Navy, Tulane, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt

West: Air Force, Baylor, S.M.U., Rice, T.C.U., Tulsa

******************************************************

Big 10 East: Connecticut, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers

Big 10 South: Maryland, N. Carolina, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Virginia

Big 10 North: Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota

Big 10 West: Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

******************************************************

SEC: North: Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee, Va Tech, W.V.U.

SEC East: Clemson, Georgia, Ga. Tech, N.C. St., S. Carolina

SEC South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, F.S.U., Mississippi St.

SEC West: Arkansas, L.S.U., Missouri, Mississippi, Texas A&M

*****************************************************

PAC North: California, Oregon, Oregon St., Stanford, Washington, Wash St.

PAC South: Arizona, Arizona St, B.Y.U., U.C.L.A., U.S.C., Utah

PAC East: Colorado, Kansas State, Oklahoma St., Texas, Texas Tech

That's 76 schools accounting for most of the academic elites as well as most of those worthy of making a power conference. The only one I see hanging would be Cincinnati.

The SEC may get stuck with TCU if the Big 12 goes away - that gives the West their Vanderbilt, although TCU has been better in the field over the past few years.

If you did a 4x16 without an SEC, Vanderbilt would head to the ACC; I figured #16 would probably be Florida or Georgia, although Alabama is ranked #77 per US News as of 2012 and would bring a different market (Auburn is #89).

The other viable alternative in a non-SEC world would be to send Vanderbilt to the Big 10 with Missouri since both are AAU (as are Florida and Texas A&M). Missouri is contiguous to the Big Ten footprint, and once Missouri is in Vanderbilt would be as well.

(10-02-2013 10:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  You make solid points but I feel that vandy is content with the status quo. It would be a shame to see such a good school fall under the reign of Unc.

Vandy isn't going to throw away over 80 years of history. They actually value things like that there...

(10-03-2013 08:05 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  You make solid points but I feel that vandy is content with the status quo. It would be a shame to see such a good school fall under the reign of Unc.

Vandy isn't going to throw away over 80 years of history. They actually value things like that there...

Right... even if the SEC had a slight inclination that Vandy leaving would be in their best interest (profit sharing, opening a slot for a new team, etc.), they would never even hint at it. Vandy would never insist on leaving, either, if they had a similar feeling. There is too much respect from both sides, but that does not mean the conversation shouldn't take place at some point. Schools that recently have made conference switches are fond of saying this is a "100 year move" for their school. If we were to apply that phrase literally, this would be Vandy's 100 year move if it were to happen in 10 years as I originally suggested.

JR brings up an item from past discussions with which I totally agree, and that is an eastern conference of elite private universities would be viable and successful today. Northwestern in the B1G, Vandy in the SEC, and Duke and Wake Forest in the ACC were all joined in the formative years of each conference because a private school's identity was tied more to a regional culture than it is today. As many have discussed in recent months, much of the cultural shift is no longer regional as much as urban vs. rural, or, maybe more specifically, city vs. state. I see this daily in Nashville. Many of our transplants from Chicago, New York City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, or Atlanta always answer their city when you ask where they are from. In talking to many and having several as friends, people that grow up in cities and go to city universities and, consequently, get city jobs have very little understanding of the true culture and people of Illinois, New York, California, Pennsylvania, or Georgia.

Another way of putting it is that most of Vandy's population would feel more at home on Northwestern's campus and spending the weekend in Chicago than being on UT's campus and spending the weekend in Knoxville. To be honest, the typical Vandy student, professor, or alumni feels uncomfortable the next county over (I know... when they would visit with me at my family's 5 acre piece of land with a horse and a few dogs just 45 minutes outside of downtown Nashville, they felt the need to go into Hee-Haw mode to try and fit in. Quite amusing, actually.)

I would contend that Vandy, as a whole, feels more at home at Northwestern than in Knoxville, and Northwestern feels more at home at Vandy than in Champaign, much less the other non-cosmopolitan school locations in each conference. Again, most seem to accept the "100 year move" line of thinking, and the SEC should not be immune. Not a single person in the SEC blinked when TAMU said those words about coming to the SEC because it was so apparent that College Station is to Texas as Oxford, Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Athens, Gainesville, Knoxville, etc. are to our states. Many would feel the same way about Norman, Oklahoma, and to a lesser degree with Chapel Hill.

Believe me, most of Nashville's citizens first claims are as Tennesseans, but that is not the case for the citizens of West End (Vandy area). Vandy going to the ACC would not mean removing the SEC flag from Nashville or middle Tennessee; it would simply mean planting an ACC flag in a portion of Nashville in the same way that the SEC flag is planted in Atlanta with an ACC flag in the immediate area around Georgia Tech.

Good thoughts and feedback from everyone.

Vanderbilt will not leave the SEC unless they are kicked out. Those folks in Nashville are probably looking at Tulane and Rice right now and thinking "that's us if we leave the SEC...".

The only way they leave is if there is a long-term landing area that isn't C-USA (or even the AAC, for that matter). The landing area would need to be loaded with schools like UVA, Duke, Rice, etc. for them to be satisfied.

(10-03-2013 10:02 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Vanderbilt will not leave the SEC unless they are kicked out. Those folks in Nashville are probably looking at Tulane and Rice right now and thinking "that's us if we leave the SEC...".

The only way they leave is if there is a long-term landing area that isn't C-USA (or even the AAC, for that matter). The landing area would need to be loaded with schools like UVA, Duke, Rice, etc. for them to be satisfied.

Yes, which is why the ACC is a primary topic of discussion.

Trade Vandy for Va Tech

Just for that, I hope Mizzou upsets USC tomorrow...

All, JR and I have been talking by email about an all private conference, so I thought I would share my view on what could be a viable, and I think pretty cool, option. JR's 3 x 18 setup a few posts ago is excellent, too. I'll be commenting on it in a minute:

I think an all private conference an excellent idea if they are guaranteed a spot alongside the PAC, SEC, Big 10, and ACC. An eastern conference could work wonderfully if an 8-10 team conference was viable, but I am not positive that such a setup will be viewed as equal with the P4 (I am excluding the Big 12 in this discussion). Let's see how it would look:

Obvious (7 schools). These seven teams make up a strong core that is stronger than the current Big East but not at a level with the P4 athletically:

Vandy
Duke
Wake Forest
Northwestern
Syracuse
Boston College
Miami

The next HUGE move would be to convince Notre Dame that such a conference is in their best interest. The addition of Notre Dame guarantees a conference network and other revenue and exposure streams. Add Notre Dame, and they are at a level with the current Big 12. Under this arrangement, they could add Army and Navy, stick at 10, and be a viable eastern conference for years to come. If we are looking for cultural fit where travel is acceptable and the conference would be highly profitable, this is it.

But what about Texas? Drop Army and Navy from the list above, and we are at 8 schools. Deciding to bring in Baylor and TCU would push the boundaries, and they are not a perfect cultural fit, but it is undeniable that such a connection would be tremendous for Baylor and TCU as institutions, and it would be a boon for the league to set itself in the state (and, by default, cities) of the next generation. Plus, TCU and Baylor create perfect travel partners. As long as the schedules were put together in such a way that the non-football sports could travel to Texas and play back-to-backs, it could work. So, that is a 10 team league that is every bit as strong as any other 10 teams within a P4 conference and more academically elite than all of them. If they wanted to set themselves over the top, though....

What about California? Would Stanford and USC ever bite at a chance to be in conference with the rest of the best private universities in the nation? Their worth is obvious, and I contend that this would create the most valuable conference in the country in all regards. As with TCU and Baylor, they can be set up as travel partners. If this membership of 12 schools decided to play 11 round robin football games, it also means that every school would be given the opportunity to play a football game in the state of Texas, California, the Mid-Atlantic (Duke and Wake Forest), the South (Vandy or Miami) the Midwest (Notre Dame or Northwestern), and the Northeast (Syracuse and Boston College). In terms of maximum exposure, I'm not sure how you do much better. Such a conference would certainly have nationwide carriage for a sports network.

If 12 turned out to not be a large enough number, there is a small pool of additional schools that would also bring tremendous value. Those 12 schools will have a hard time becoming more academically elite, but what they could use is more common fan eyeballs. Where is the best source of such fans? The Mormons and the Uniforms. Adding BYU, Air Force, Navy, and Army to form a 16 team conference would have nationwide appeal, and although the Academies are not national universities in terms of their mission, the undergraduate population is certainly elite private. BYU and Air Force also serve as good travel partners, and if these private school's administration did not know how to utilize a trip to the Nation's Capital (going to Navy), their schools would not already be is such a power position.

My 12 team setup above would put the PAC back at 10 teams, the SEC and B1G at 13 teams, the ACC at 9 members, and the Big 12 at 8 members. That is 53 schools. Let's do some 3rd grade math: 3 x 18 is 54. 4 x 14 is 56. 3 x 20 is 60. 5 x 12 is 60.

I like 4 x 14. The PAC adds Texoma since the concept of a Notre Dame kissing cousin deal is no longer available to Texas. The B1G 10 is in a position to add Kansas, and they do it. The ACC, in a position of vulnerability, takes Kansas State and Iowa State to go along with Louisville, which puts them at 12. Now, here is where things get cleaned up. West Virginia will find a home at this point in the SEC or ACC. Cincinnati and UConn are the obvious choices for inclusion. WVU to the SEC to make 14, Cincinnati and UConn to the ACC (remember, Boston College is out of the ACC in this scenario, so they need a presence in New England).

4 conferences with 14 members, and one elite private conference with 12. If they wanted to get to 14, as well, I would actually go with BYU and Tulane rather than just taking one of the Academies. I think the intrigue would be for all three to be together. If it is just one, the popularity would not bring much more than what the MWC currently receive for Air Force.

(10-02-2013 10:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The best solution BBB is none of the above. It would be the following:

A new conference of Private School Athletic Conference:

East: Army, Boston College, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Temple

South: Duke, Miami, Navy, Tulane, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt

West: Air Force, Baylor, S.M.U., Rice, T.C.U., Tulsa

******************************************************

Big 10 East: Connecticut, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers

Big 10 South: Maryland, N. Carolina, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Virginia

Big 10 North: Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota

Big 10 West: Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

******************************************************

SEC: North: Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee, Va Tech, W.V.U.

SEC East: Clemson, Georgia, Ga. Tech, N.C. St., S. Carolina

SEC South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, F.S.U., Mississippi St.

SEC West: Arkansas, L.S.U., Missouri, Mississippi, Texas A&M

*****************************************************

PAC North: California, Oregon, Oregon St., Stanford, Washington, Wash St.

PAC South: Arizona, Arizona St, B.Y.U., U.C.L.A., U.S.C., Utah

PAC East: Colorado, Kansas State, Oklahoma St., Texas, Texas Tech

That's 76 schools accounting for most of the academic elites as well as most of those worthy of making a power conference. The only one I see hanging would be Cincinnati.

JR, this setup is outstanding for a few reasons:

1. It pits true regional peers against each other, which, when all is said and done, is why most of us are college sports fans and why we care so deeply about it.

2. Limiting the conferences to 4 x 18 opens up tremendous media opportunities. With that lineup, the conferences may not even have to compete against each other with other networks; they could create an NCAA network that operates similar to the Fox Sports regional networks. If that network held every single right, including the football and basketball championships, we are not only talking about a 4 channel package on cable, we are talking about an NCAA radio network and internet resources.

3. Scheduled correctly, it could provide a better comparison between schools in non-football sports. For example, the B1G East pod could all play the SEC South pod during the basketball regular season. It would create an apples-to-apples way of at least comparing the strength of teams within each pod, plus it would give the conferences a change to participate in "Challenges", which I think are a great way to set up competition within what can sometimes become a monotonous regular season.

4. The pods provide a much cleaner path to playoffs and keep every fan base engaged longer throughout the season.

(10-04-2013 10:53 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The best solution BBB is none of the above. It would be the following:

A new conference of Private School Athletic Conference:

East: Army, Boston College, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Temple

South: Duke, Miami, Navy, Tulane, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt

West: Air Force, Baylor, S.M.U., Rice, T.C.U., Tulsa

******************************************************

Big 10 East: Connecticut, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers

Big 10 South: Maryland, N. Carolina, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Virginia

Big 10 North: Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota

Big 10 West: Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma

******************************************************

SEC: North: Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee, Va Tech, W.V.U.

SEC East: Clemson, Georgia, Ga. Tech, N.C. St., S. Carolina

SEC South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, F.S.U., Mississippi St.

SEC West: Arkansas, L.S.U., Missouri, Mississippi, Texas A&M

*****************************************************

PAC North: California, Oregon, Oregon St., Stanford, Washington, Wash St.

PAC South: Arizona, Arizona St, B.Y.U., U.C.L.A., U.S.C., Utah

PAC East: Colorado, Kansas State, Oklahoma St., Texas, Texas Tech

That's 76 schools accounting for most of the academic elites as well as most of those worthy of making a power conference. The only one I see hanging would be Cincinnati.

JR, this setup is outstanding for a few reasons:

1. It pits true regional peers against each other, which, when all is said and done, is why most of us are college sports fans and why we care so deeply about it.

2. Limiting the conferences to 4 x 18 opens up tremendous media opportunities. With that lineup, the conferences may not even have to compete against each other with other networks; they could create an NCAA network that operates similar to the Fox Sports regional networks. If that network held every single right, including the football and basketball championships, we are not only talking about a 4 channel package on cable, we are talking about an NCAA radio network and internet resources.

3. Scheduled correctly, it could provide a better comparison between schools in non-football sports. For example, the B1G East pod could all play the SEC South pod during the basketball regular season. It would create an apples-to-apples way of at least comparing the strength of teams within each pod, plus it would give the conferences a change to participate in "Challenges", which I think are a great way to set up competition within what can sometimes become a monotonous regular season.

4. The pods provide a much cleaner path to playoffs and keep every fan base engaged longer throughout the season.

Do note however that the Big 10 and SEC have 20 each and that the PAC and Private have 18.

(10-04-2013 10:41 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  All, JR and I have been talking by email about an all private conference, so I thought I would share my view on what could be a viable, and I think pretty cool, option. JR's 3 x 18 setup a few posts ago is excellent, too. I'll be commenting on it in a minute:

I think an all private conference an excellent idea if they are guaranteed a spot alongside the PAC, SEC, Big 10, and ACC. An eastern conference could work wonderfully if an 8-10 team conference was viable, but I am not positive that such a setup will be viewed as equal with the P4 (I am excluding the Big 12 in this discussion). Let's see how it would look:

Obvious (7 schools). These seven teams make up a strong core that is stronger than the current Big East but not at a level with the P4 athletically:

Vandy
Duke
Wake Forest
Northwestern
Syracuse
Boston College
Miami

The next HUGE move would be to convince Notre Dame that such a conference is in their best interest. The addition of Notre Dame guarantees a conference network and other revenue and exposure streams. Add Notre Dame, and they are at a level with the current Big 12. Under this arrangement, they could add Army and Navy, stick at 10, and be a viable eastern conference for years to come. If we are looking for cultural fit where travel is acceptable and the conference would be highly profitable, this is it.

But what about Texas? Drop Army and Navy from the list above, and we are at 8 schools. Deciding to bring in Baylor and TCU would push the boundaries, and they are not a perfect cultural fit, but it is undeniable that such a connection would be tremendous for Baylor and TCU as institutions, and it would be a boon for the league to set itself in the state (and, by default, cities) of the next generation. Plus, TCU and Baylor create perfect travel partners. As long as the schedules were put together in such a way that the non-football sports could travel to Texas and play back-to-backs, it could work. So, that is a 10 team league that is every bit as strong as any other 10 teams within a P4 conference and more academically elite than all of them. If they wanted to set themselves over the top, though....

What about California? Would Stanford and USC ever bite at a chance to be in conference with the rest of the best private universities in the nation? Their worth is obvious, and I contend that this would create the most valuable conference in the country in all regards. As with TCU and Baylor, they can be set up as travel partners. If this membership of 12 schools decided to play 11 round robin football games, it also means that every school would be given the opportunity to play a football game in the state of Texas, California, the Mid-Atlantic (Duke and Wake Forest), the South (Vandy or Miami) the Midwest (Notre Dame or Northwestern), and the Northeast (Syracuse and Boston College). In terms of maximum exposure, I'm not sure how you do much better. Such a conference would certainly have nationwide carriage for a sports network.

If 12 turned out to not be a large enough number, there is a small pool of additional schools that would also bring tremendous value. Those 12 schools will have a hard time becoming more academically elite, but what they could use is more common fan eyeballs. Where is the best source of such fans? The Mormons and the Uniforms. Adding BYU, Air Force, Navy, and Army to form a 16 team conference would have nationwide appeal, and although the Academies are not national universities in terms of their mission, the undergraduate population is certainly elite private. BYU and Air Force also serve as good travel partners, and if these private school's administration did not know how to utilize a trip to the Nation's Capital (going to Navy), their schools would not already be is such a power position.

My 12 team setup above would put the PAC back at 10 teams, the SEC and B1G at 13 teams, the ACC at 9 members, and the Big 12 at 8 members. That is 53 schools. Let's do some 3rd grade math: 3 x 18 is 54. 4 x 14 is 56. 3 x 20 is 60. 5 x 12 is 60.

I like 4 x 14. The PAC adds Texoma since the concept of a Notre Dame kissing cousin deal is no longer available to Texas. The B1G 10 is in a position to add Kansas, and they do it. The ACC, in a position of vulnerability, takes Kansas State and Iowa State to go along with Louisville, which puts them at 12. Now, here is where things get cleaned up. West Virginia will find a home at this point in the SEC or ACC. Cincinnati and UConn are the obvious choices for inclusion. WVU to the SEC to make 14, Cincinnati and UConn to the ACC (remember, Boston College is out of the ACC in this scenario, so they need a presence in New England).

4 conferences with 14 members, and one elite private conference with 12. If they wanted to get to 14, as well, I would actually go with BYU and Tulane rather than just taking one of the Academies. I think the intrigue would be for all three to be together. If it is just one, the popularity would not bring much more than what the MWC currently receive for Air Force.

I like the idea of U.S.C. and Stanford in the private conference. I left them out of my setup because of logistics. I think they would still want to play with limited exceptions a West coast schedule.

I'm a structure guy, form follows function. I just don't like 5 conference no matter who they are or how they are constructed. There is much to be said for your suggestions, but could you give an illustration for how to compact that into just 4 conferences. 14 is just too awkward and limiting. 12 is fine except for networks. 16 is fine. 10 doesn't provide enough content for a network. 18 is my favorite for geographical reasons and at least twenty provides 4 divisional games. But with the needs of content for network programming we need at least 16.

I'm still playing with models. 4 x 16 is still the best for total quality. 4 x 18 is still the best for internal reasons for any conference adopting it. But 4 x 18 gets too thin out West. The strongest model by far is the 3 x 20, but its popularity would have to be proven. 3 x 24 runs into the same problems as the 4 x 18. It gets thin out West.

(10-03-2013 09:09 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 08:05 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  You make solid points but I feel that vandy is content with the status quo. It would be a shame to see such a good school fall under the reign of Unc.

Vandy isn't going to throw away over 80 years of history. They actually value things like that there...

Right... even if the SEC had a slight inclination that Vandy leaving would be in their best interest (profit sharing, opening a slot for a new team, etc.), they would never even hint at it. Vandy would never insist on leaving, either, if they had a similar feeling. There is too much respect from both sides, but that does not mean the conversation shouldn't take place at some point. Schools that recently have made conference switches are fond of saying this is a "100 year move" for their school. If we were to apply that phrase literally, this would be Vandy's 100 year move if it were to happen in 10 years as I originally suggested.

JR brings up an item from past discussions with which I totally agree, and that is an eastern conference of elite private universities would be viable and successful today. Northwestern in the B1G, Vandy in the SEC, and Duke and Wake Forest in the ACC were all joined in the formative years of each conference because a private school's identity was tied more to a regional culture than it is today. As many have discussed in recent months, much of the cultural shift is no longer regional as much as urban vs. rural, or, maybe more specifically, city vs. state. I see this daily in Nashville. Many of our transplants from Chicago, New York City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, or Atlanta always answer their city when you ask where they are from. In talking to many and having several as friends, people that grow up in cities and go to city universities and, consequently, get city jobs have very little understanding of the true culture and people of Illinois, New York, California, Pennsylvania, or Georgia.

Another way of putting it is that most of Vandy's population would feel more at home on Northwestern's campus and spending the weekend in Chicago than being on UT's campus and spending the weekend in Knoxville. To be honest, the typical Vandy student, professor, or alumni feels uncomfortable the next county over (I know... when they would visit with me at my family's 5 acre piece of land with a horse and a few dogs just 45 minutes outside of downtown Nashville, they felt the need to go into Hee-Haw mode to try and fit in. Quite amusing, actually.)

I would contend that Vandy, as a whole, feels more at home at Northwestern than in Knoxville, and Northwestern feels more at home at Vandy than in Champaign, much less the other non-cosmopolitan school locations in each conference. Again, most seem to accept the "100 year move" line of thinking, and the SEC should not be immune. Not a single person in the SEC blinked when TAMU said those words about coming to the SEC because it was so apparent that College Station is to Texas as Oxford, Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Athens, Gainesville, Knoxville, etc. are to our states. Many would feel the same way about Norman, Oklahoma, and to a lesser degree with Chapel Hill.

Believe me, most of Nashville's citizens first claims are as Tennesseans, but that is not the case for the citizens of West End (Vandy area). Vandy going to the ACC would not mean removing the SEC flag from Nashville or middle Tennessee; it would simply mean planting an ACC flag in a portion of Nashville in the same way that the SEC flag is planted in Atlanta with an ACC flag in the immediate area around Georgia Tech.

Good thoughts and feedback from everyone.

Vandy is the SEC version of Northwestern in the B1G, and Duke in the ACC. Everybody has one. It's all OK. I would send my kids to Vandy in a minute...

Vandy would have to want to leave. No one would kick them out and every school, even 'Bama would be saddened to see them go. As Bit alluded to, there way to much history between the SEC schools to let a little thing like money come between them.

And 10th, only GT football fans are disappointed about being in the ACC. The academic side of the house has been thrilled with the 35 year association. To be honest, due to GT narrow mission and academic rigors, I can easily see it's football program going the way of Duke and deciding to emphasize CBB more. People like to think of GT in a similar vain as Purdue, Stanford, Vandy and VT. But if you look at the majors offered GT is actually closer to Rose Hulman, Havery Mudd or RPI; pure engineering and science. The only place to stash academic lightweights is in the management department. Even that placement doesn't hide players from the mandatory calculus requirement. If not for the ACC, GT might have done away with the CFB program in light of the academic direction of the school.

(10-08-2013 12:02 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Vandy would have to want to leave. No one would kick them out and every school, even 'Bama would be saddened to see them go. As Bit alluded to, there way to much history between the SEC schools to let a little thing like money come between them.

And 10th, only GT football fans are disappointed about being in the ACC. The academic side of the house has been thrilled with the 35 year association. To be honest, due to GT narrow mission and academic rigors, I can easily see it's football program going the way of Duke and deciding to emphasize CBB more. People like to think of GT in a similar vain as Purdue, Stanford, Vandy and VT. But if you look at the majors offered GT is actually closer to Rose Hulman, Havery Mudd or RPI; pure engineering and science. The only place to stash academic lightweights is in the management department. Even that placement doesn't hide players from the mandatory calculus requirement. If not for the ACC, GT might have done away with the CFB program in light of the academic direction of the school.

That's a good post Vandiver and I agree with your assessment about GT. But you have to admit that it's easier to get that Ford Roadster onto Grant Field than it would be to get it onto the Gym floor. I think they keep football just to be able to send pretty girls out running ahead of that one terrific car.

I don't think many folks want to see Vandy go anywhere. Having Vandy is what separates us from real idiot conferences, like the Big12.

We can always point to Vandy!