I45owl
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RE: Losing Men
(09-19-2013 06:02 PM)JOwl Wrote: (09-19-2013 10:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote: Quote:In 2010, more than 38,000 people killed themselves in the United States – and over 30,000 of them were men, Helen Smith, a forensic psychologist, points out in her book Men on Strike.
“How many of these men had decided to kill themselves because they could no longer see their children, had a broken relationship, or were involved in a bitter divorce?” she asks. “Ironically, even when you look at the suicide statistics, most concern seems to be about women who kill themselves. Apparently, our society cares so little about men that those who kill themselves are hardly news.”
It’s the problem of a culture that often treats men as if there is something inherently wrong with masculinity, with what makes them different from women — and looks to feminize them. Men who are less interested in marriage and responsibility are only being rational in that context, Smith argues. In the wake of the Navy Yard shootings on Monday, Smith talks about violent video games, and men in America, with National Review Online’s Kathryn Jean Lopez.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/35...-interview
The supposition of the cause holds no water for me.
That says that 79% of the suicides in 2010 were male. According to WHO data ( http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevent...index.html ), that's the lowest it's been since 1980, although really the percentage has been essentially flat -- a low of 78% in 1980 and a high of 82% in 1995.
Looking further back, it dipped as low as 72% in 1970, but was 78% back in 1955. (The data shows a peak of 88% in 1950, but that just doesn't look trustworthy to me).
So essentially the fraction of suicides that were male were the same in 1955 as they were in 2010. Are they trying to tell me that this is a phenomena explained by a culture that tries to "feminize" men? If so, then they must believe our culture was equal as feminizing in the 1950's. Does anyone here believe that?
Also, looking at raw suicide rates (not comparing between men and women, just looking at men), it was 17.7 per 100k men in 2005, which was the lowest it had been since 1970 when it was 16.7 per 100k men. Again, the current state of our culture hasn't seemed to move the needle any.
And trying from a different perspective, how about in other countries where men are "expected to act like men"? The first country that comes to mind is Mexico, with the whole machismo thing. Well, in 2008, 81% of the suicides were by men.
There is zero support for this article's contentions.
I think you've nailed my question above, whether there is any significant change over time, as well as the cultural prevalence of male vs. female suicide. It may be that the issues raised in the article are not themselves part of the cause of suicide in our culture. But, I don't think that means they are not valid concerns... certainly there is a lot of self-examination in the educational community about the fact that males are being devalued inside the classrooms.
Even so, I think the mental health contribution itself is overestimated and simple self-esteem, sense of accomplishment, and sense of purpose are underestimated in the consideration of suicides. Presuming it is strictly a mental health issue tends to discount that suicide may be rational, deliberate act (rational in the sense that it can be a conscious decision and pre-planned as opposed to impulsive). Although it's called self-esteem for a reason, and not "network-television-esteem" or "popular-culture-esteem", I think that there is a considerable under-valuation of fathers and men in general, and I think it does have a negative impact. That doesn't mean I'm going to start trusting strange men to be around my daughter...
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