The Navy veteran who gunned down 12 at Washington Navy Yard had his federal security clearance renewed in July, despite having a record of violent behavior involving guns and a history of mental illness.

(09-17-2013 11:21 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  When only one guy had a gun everyone else is at his mercy.

Military posts are always going to be weapon free. The whole "well if everyone had a gun" argument isn't going to change that.

(09-17-2013 05:55 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 09:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Why does NRA demand that employers not have the right to keep random people from taking firearms onto their premises again? Why do we need no questions asked access to high capacity clips and assault weapons at any 'gun show'?

I'd like to say I'm surprised about this horrible act. But I'm not. Because the last dozen times this exact same thing has happened, no one has done anything to stop the problem, which is access to extremely deadly weapons by those that shouldn't have that access.

At least you're not already making it political. So there's that. GAY POWER!

Right out of the NRA playbook. Give anyone access to guns and then when the utterly predictable happens as a consequence (mass shootings) then try to silence anyone who dares draw a link between access to guns and gun violence.

I guess we'll just have to wait until the next one of these preventable scenarios occurs and then just go through the same thing again.

Meanwhile, the NRA wants me to be barred from banning people from entering my business with a firearm without my consent.

Yes, this is political, because political decisions created the environment where these events flourish. And political decisions could mitigate these events.

(09-17-2013 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 05:55 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 09:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Why does NRA demand that employers not have the right to keep random people from taking firearms onto their premises again? Why do we need no questions asked access to high capacity clips and assault weapons at any 'gun show'?

I'd like to say I'm surprised about this horrible act. But I'm not. Because the last dozen times this exact same thing has happened, no one has done anything to stop the problem, which is access to extremely deadly weapons by those that shouldn't have that access.

At least you're not already making it political. So there's that. GAY POWER!

Right out of the NRA playbook. Give anyone access to guns and then when the utterly predictable happens as a consequence (mass shootings) then try to silence anyone who dares draw a link between access to guns and gun violence.

I guess we'll just have to wait until the next one of these preventable scenarios occurs and then just go through the same thing again.

Meanwhile, the NRA wants me to be barred from banning people from entering my business with a firearm without my consent.

Yes, this is political, because political decisions created the environment where these events flourish. And political decisions could mitigate these events.

Isn't shooting people already illegal? What additional law would have prevented this?

There was no falsely labeled "assault" weapon here. It was one of those Joe "big ******* deal" Biden shotguns. Why is Joe out there making an appeal for people to buy more shotguns? Doesn't Joe know that shotguns can be deadly too?

WHY IS THE VICE PRESIDENT ENDORSING AND PUSHING FOR MORE SHOTGUN OWNERSHIP? WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!!! AAAAaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!

(09-17-2013 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Right out of the NRA playbook. Give anyone access to guns and then when the utterly predictable happens as a consequence (mass shootings) then try to silence anyone who dares draw a link between access to guns and gun violence.

That is not the NRA playbook, but I'd bet you knew that and only wanted to blow more hyperbole. The NRA supports meaningful efforts to address the problems of violent crime and mass violence in America through swift and certain prosecution of violent criminals, securing our schools and fixing the broken mental health system.

You're like a little child who needs to be constantly monitored and corrected.

Words have meaning. Post more carefully.

According to at least one report, he entered the facility only with the shotgun he purchased about a week ago. He got the pistol from a policeman he shot, but the AR-15 remains a question as to how he got that.

Sounds like Biden is to blame.

(09-17-2013 01:17 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 11:21 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  When only one guy had a gun everyone else is at his mercy.

Military posts are always going to be weapon free. The whole "well if everyone had a gun" argument isn't going to change that.

What I said applies to more than military posts, it also applies to neighborhoods and your home.

(09-17-2013 02:31 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Right out of the NRA playbook. Give anyone access to guns and then when the utterly predictable happens as a consequence (mass shootings) then try to silence anyone who dares draw a link between access to guns and gun violence.

That is not the NRA playbook, but I'd bet you knew that and only wanted to blow more hyperbole. The NRA supports meaningful efforts to address the problems of violent crime and mass violence in America through swift and certain prosecution of violent criminals, securing our schools and fixing the broken mental health system.

You're like a little child who needs to be constantly monitored and corrected.

Words have meaning. Post more carefully.

I stand by my statement. The NRA blocks any meaningful effort to stop no questions asked sales to the insane and criminals at gun shows (no monitoring or checking required). They advocate for the proliferation of guns, even when the private property owners want to keep them off their property. The NRA's plan to 'secure our schools' by arming more people is pure insanity and will likely just create free fire zones in the event of an attack. The NRA will not spend any effort whatsoever in order to get its' GOP lackeys to spend more money on mental health (Prediction, the GOP will not introduce a stand alone bill on mental health and will not increase government spending to do so, and the NRA won't hold anyone accountable).

Obviously, the NRA thinks that what we've been doing is working just fine. I think something is wrong with a system where anyone regardless of mental state or criminal record can go to a gun show and buy whatever they want without any record keeping or criminal checks. I think something is wrong with creating free fire zones but turning our schools into armories. I don't believe that the NRA GOP House is going to pass a mental health bill that isn't tied to some expansion of Gun availability.

I guess we can go through this the next time the same thing happens again in say about 2-3 months and you can tell me that the NRA method is still working well and that no one should bring politics into it or even try something besides increasing the availability of guns to the insane and criminals at gun shows.

(09-17-2013 02:31 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  According to at least one report, he entered the facility only with the shotgun he purchased about a week ago. He got the pistol from a policeman he shot, but the AR-15 remains a question as to how he got that.

Sounds like Biden is to blame.

Now Police say he didn't have an AR-15. Used the shot gun to gain entry to building and took pistols off guards.

Looking at the ages of the victims they weren't the most mobile of people in the building.

(09-17-2013 04:45 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 02:31 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  According to at least one report, he entered the facility only with the shotgun he purchased about a week ago. He got the pistol from a policeman he shot, but the AR-15 remains a question as to how he got that.

Sounds like Biden is to blame.

Now Police say he didn't have an AR-15. Used the shot gun to gain entry to building and took pistols off guards.

And if so, it completely invalidates every one of Tom's points.

Tom, and I say this respectfully.

You know full well that the reason the NRA is "stiff" in their acceptances is that the left on this argument, including you here, isn't really interested in having legal owners of guns.

Gun Shows don't appear to have any impact here... nor do large clips... nor apparently even "assault-style" weapons... or even background checks.... yet you and your friends all "went there" as soon as you heard people were shot. Nothing short of a weapons ban would appear to have made a difference here.

Like leftist groups, the NRA espouses the farthest position that a substantial majority its members agree on, and that is far further "right" than most of the country... This isn't a policy making body but an advocacy group... and you know it. Tell me, do GLT groups have a moderated position on their issues or are they more extreme hoping to get something left of where we are? You've seen the Gay Pride parades. People dress as they do there because they are INTENTIONALLY trying to make a point, and not because they really want the right to go to the grocery store in a thong and pasties. It's the same thing.

Assuming a normal distribution... The NRA is the right tail. People like me who generally support the BASICS if not the details of the NRA and even many leftists who support sporting guns and more restrictions make up the bell and then there are the banners, who take every opportunity to lobby to limit guns who make up the other extreme. I suspect you have no problem with those people.

(09-17-2013 04:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I stand by my statement.

Your statements have been proven factually incorrect, full of hyperbole, and frankly you should be embarrassed by most of what you've posted.

(I especially enjoyed your tortured thoughts about how the NRA will control the GOP on a mental health bill. Boogey boogey, I'm the NRA mental health Republicans boogey boogey!)

The NRA advocates for training in the use of firearms, firearm safety and safe ownership and provides the education and resources for inexpensive instruction from youths to advance range and target competition.

More civilians have been trained in the safe use of firearms than any "governmental program" out there except the non-civilian military.

They are a national treasure and should be recognized as such.

Nothing Lazylunatic has posted has any relevance to what happened here, or most of the other instances that the left likes to politicize.

If the gungrabbers were honest in their intentions then they would be putting their efforts into getting the criminals responsible for the thousands of gun crimes committed each year by the criminals, not harassing law abiding citizens exercising their Constitutional rights.

A Rhode Island officer reported Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis to naval station police last month after Alexis told cops he was 'hearing voices' through a wall and three people were following him.

And the hits just keep on coming

(09-17-2013 04:08 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 01:17 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 11:21 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  When only one guy had a gun everyone else is at his mercy.

Military posts are always going to be weapon free. The whole "well if everyone had a gun" argument isn't going to change that.

What I said applies to more than military posts, it also applies to neighborhoods and your home.

But of course a guy didn't shoot 12 people in my neighborhood or my house and that's not what this thread is about, is it? You guys always change the context or goal post when it doesn't go your way.

(09-17-2013 11:33 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 04:08 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 01:17 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-17-2013 11:21 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  When only one guy had a gun everyone else is at his mercy.

Military posts are always going to be weapon free. The whole "well if everyone had a gun" argument isn't going to change that.

What I said applies to more than military posts, it also applies to neighborhoods and your home.

But of course a guy didn't shoot 12 people in my neighborhood or my house and that's not what this thread is about, is it? You guys always change the context or goal post when it doesn't go your way.

In a word: clueless

Two more words: absolutely clueless