(08-16-2013 02:11 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:07 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:01 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:58 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

I bet there's some foreign blood in your woodpile, and you turned into a good, solid, red-blooded 'mercan.

There is foreign blood in every human who identifies with a nationality.

What's your point? That doesn't mean I think it is a good idea to flood the nation with people from Pakistan because we are too wrapped up in our careers to have kids. At what point do we start resembling Pakistan?

Get it?

We're being flooded with Pakistanis?

That's the best liberal snark you could muster?

Is that a no?

(08-16-2013 01:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 11:06 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 10:43 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 10:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I could care less if people have children or not. It is none of my business. I do however demand that they be able to support them financially. This is why I favor voluntary contraceptive implantation as a requirement for public assistance.

Do I think low birth rates among caucasians will have an impact down the road? Yes. Am I terrified of this? No. Our culture has evolved since it's inception from a variety of nationalities, cultures and ethic backgrounds. It is what makes America great...(that old melting pot thing). I have faith that will continue regardless of how we look as a people. Us crackers have done plenty of crappy schit that has contributed to the decay of the country. We are not that damn special nor do we hold some special high ground.

What if someone is morally or religiously opposed to contraception? Would you let them starve? What if they say they are gay?

The point is to stop incentivizing poor choices and actually help people end the cycle of poverty. I am willing to actually spend additional money train these folks to be productive citizens. I see that as a good ROI. What we are doing now is not.

Starve?...No. I support private charity both financially and as a volunteer. Those that oppose implantation woulld have to turn there for help. Private charity is perfectly capable of handling these folks.


Gay, Straight, Female, Male...makes no difference to me. Everyone gets implanted if you take funds from the public. There should be consequences for one's poor choices. I don't think any one would disagree that continuing to field more children while in poverty is a poor choice. What is happening is that the system now makes it a good choice for them. More kids..more public theft. That needs to stop.

But sometimes (when it is actually used as a safety net), public assistance is not a cycle. If I lose my job, for instance, I don't think I should have to play God with my wife's body, potentially causing future fertility problems to get unemployment or any other kind of assistance and I can guarantee you I am not part of a poverty cycle and my kids are not a criminal risk. It be should temporary, however. We use natural family planning because of our personal beliefs and it has worked perfectly so far for us and everyone we know. I don't believe in government force chemical castration.

I am not talking about unemployment insurance payments...that is not what I call government assistance. You pay into that system with the fruits of your labors.

For clarity...I would not force anyone to do anything against their beliefs. I expect this would spur more private organizations that could help those that chose not to opt in.

(08-16-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:13 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 12:54 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 12:30 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  The fertility rate is 1.89 children per each woman. That is too low to maintain a culture. It was too low in 2008(1.6) and it is too low now. I'm betting if you haven't been able to understand this by now, you may never understand it.

Ill take your word on the research of the fertility numbers. I submit however that there is no threshold of cultural maintenance other than our avocation of what that culture should be. Our culture is ever evolving. Nothing we can do will stop that including having more or less children.

You don't understand Demographic Stability. You also don't seem to acknowledge that we are a nation with its own cultural identity.

If you think having more children is going to keep that cultural identity magically frozen in time...then have at it. It has and always will evolve and there is nothing wrong with that. What is important is that we follow the document that is supposed to guide our experiment. BTW...We already do everything we can to ignore it and have so for a long time. THIS is why we are screwed...not because of birth rates.

More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

There is no preservative for culture that I am aware of. I guess folks could compound themselves off from everyone else and try..but..that usually ends up with unintended consequences. I don't think you are intending this..but..this conversation is sounding very Xenophobic.

(08-16-2013 02:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:07 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:01 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  But sometimes (when it is actually used as a safety net), public assistance is not a cycle. If I lose my job, for instance, I don't think I should have to play God with my wife's body, potentially causing future fertility problems to get unemployment or any other kind of assistance and I can guarantee you I am not part of a poverty cycle and my kids are not a criminal risk. It be should temporary, however. We use natural family planning because of our personal beliefs and it has worked perfectly so far for us and everyone we know. I don't believe in government force chemical castration.

Do you believe in government forcing women to get an ultrasound before getting an abortion?

No, I don't believe abortions should be allowed at all.

Well, yeah but given they ARE legal and there are several states now that make it mandatory, how do you feel about it? Should the government have the right to do it? Or is it ok for women to be violated?

No, I don't believe in any government mandated medical procedures. If abortion has to be legal, I support parental consent laws for minors.

Does that include vaccinations?

(08-16-2013 03:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:13 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 12:54 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Ill take your word on the research of the fertility numbers. I submit however that there is no threshold of cultural maintenance other than our avocation of what that culture should be. Our culture is ever evolving. Nothing we can do will stop that including having more or less children.

You don't understand Demographic Stability. You also don't seem to acknowledge that we are a nation with its own cultural identity.

If you think having more children is going to keep that cultural identity magically frozen in time...then have at it. It has and always will evolve and there is nothing wrong with that. What is important is that we follow the document that is supposed to guide our experiment. BTW...We already do everything we can to ignore it and have so for a long time. THIS is why we are screwed...not because of birth rates.

More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

There is no preservative for culture that I am aware of. I guess folks could compound themselves off from everyone else and try..but..that usually ends up with unintended consequences. I don't think you are intending this..but..this conversation is sounding very Xenophobic.

Yes there is. That's exactly why we have borders, legal ways to become citizens and naturalization laws.

(08-16-2013 03:19 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:13 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You don't understand Demographic Stability. You also don't seem to acknowledge that we are a nation with its own cultural identity.

If you think having more children is going to keep that cultural identity magically frozen in time...then have at it. It has and always will evolve and there is nothing wrong with that. What is important is that we follow the document that is supposed to guide our experiment. BTW...We already do everything we can to ignore it and have so for a long time. THIS is why we are screwed...not because of birth rates.

More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

There is no preservative for culture that I am aware of. I guess folks could compound themselves off from everyone else and try..but..that usually ends up with unintended consequences. I don't think you are intending this..but..this conversation is sounding very Xenophobic.

Yes there is. That's exactly why we have borders, legal ways to become citizens and naturalization laws.

I fully support cracking down on illegal immigration. I have been very consistent on this issue. End citizenship just because you are "born" on US soil...End the welfare state that incentivizes illegal immigration...Fine the living hell out of anyone that hires an undocumented worker for starters. There is no need for fences. Stop the policies that make them come here in the first place. I have no problem with allowing migrants to work in the US. We need the labor. I just want them to go home like the used to do for decades before we gave them reasons to stay.

(08-16-2013 03:17 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:07 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:01 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Do you believe in government forcing women to get an ultrasound before getting an abortion?

No, I don't believe abortions should be allowed at all.

Well, yeah but given they ARE legal and there are several states now that make it mandatory, how do you feel about it? Should the government have the right to do it? Or is it ok for women to be violated?

No, I don't believe in any government mandated medical procedures. If abortion has to be legal, I support parental consent laws for minors.

Does that include vaccinations?

Including vaccinations.

(08-16-2013 03:29 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:17 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:07 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 02:01 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  No, I don't believe abortions should be allowed at all.

Well, yeah but given they ARE legal and there are several states now that make it mandatory, how do you feel about it? Should the government have the right to do it? Or is it ok for women to be violated?

No, I don't believe in any government mandated medical procedures. If abortion has to be legal, I support parental consent laws for minors.

Does that include vaccinations?

Including vaccinations.

Then should I be able to deny one's unprotected child entrance into public school? Does public safety not play into this? What about communicable diseases?

(08-15-2013 09:19 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 09:11 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 08:39 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 08:04 PM)jh Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 05:15 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=american+birth+rate
Now, this will be the last time I explain this to you. It takes a birth rate of 2.1 to maintain a culture. The 1.89 figure is before you factor in anchor babies- which brings the entire population rate to 2.1. That also goes for any baby born to someone in the country illegally. You cannot contrast that number to the amount of recorded immigrants coming into the country because we cannot accurately put a number on illegal immigration. Most estimates are between 1 and 2 million a year.
We are in our downfall as a culture. It's time to accept that. Mexico is not our culture.

I'm starting to envy Job. You haven't explained anything. And every time you try you get everything wrong. We are discussing the total fertility rate. Not the birth rate. Not the fertility rate. Just the total fertility rate.
I don't care what the total fertility rates was in 2011. That's not what we have been talking about. And where do you get that anchor babies bring the rate up to 2.1 in 2011?
Lets try to focus. Your super special video was made in 2008, at least three years before the total fertility rate for 2011 could be known. Your super special video said the fertility rate (he forgot the total) for citizens was at 1.6 something at some point shortly before 2008. And then it said that hispanic immigrants brought the rate up to 2.1. I know it's a super special video, but surely Craigg639 is not so super special that he has a time machine.
I showed you the data during that period. There is no way to get 1.6 something from that data, unless possibly you exclude all other races than non-Hispanic whites and further assume that a significant chunk of the non-Hispanic white births are also from non-citizens. That makes no sense. None whatsoever. Especially because the vast majority of Hispanic births are also to citizens of this fine country.

Alright dude. "Hispanic" births are not the same as births from illegal aliens. The birthrate in 2008 was 1.6. As of 2011 it was 1.89. You keep breaking down the demographics as if that makes any difference. The current birthrate is taking into account ALL RACES. When you account for births from illegal immigrants(people who not in this country legally) the birth rate becomes 2.11. The bare minimum to maintain a culture.
However, that probably does not offset the level of immigration, legal and illegal, because you cannot accurately determine how many illegals are coming into the country each year. It simple math. You keep confusing yourself with the demographics of legal citizens. Your figures do not account for illegal immigrants(Hispanic or non Hispanic). Do you think illegal immigrants fill out the census form? People from all over the world are using our southern border as an entry point. That includes, black, brown, yellow and green. Our legal birthrate cannot maintain our current culture.

Once again, we are not talking about the birth rate. Say it with me, "total fertility rate."

The total fertility rate in 2008 was not 1.6, it was 2.09. While that likely includes some illegal immigrants, it does not include enough to drop the total fertility rate all the way down to 1.6 unless you believe something truly implausible. About the only possibilities are (1) that there are so many babies born to non-Hispanic white illegal immigrants that they drop the total fertility rate for non-Hispanic white citizens well below 1.6 so the other cohorts bring it back up or (2) that virtually all of the babies being born to Hispanics are the children of illegal immigrants, causing the non-illegal immigrant Hispanic population to dilute the white numbers.

In 2008, the total fertility rate for non-Hispanic whites was 1.83. Non-hispanic whites were either the majority or plurality in 2008 so that's the base. The total fertility rate for non-hispanic whites was lower than either the Hispanic or non-Hispanic black rates, the next two largest demographic groups by far. How does adding groups with higher total fertility rates drop it from 1.83 to 1.6?

I'm glad you've come around to admitting that it is possible for a Hispanic to be born legally in this country. It's the little things like this that make it all worth while.

Same thing dude. Average births by legal citizens in the US is 1.89 births.

I don't have any idea what you are talking about regarding Hispanics and me coming around. You seem to be looking for racism or bigotry where it doesn't exist. So much that it has hindered you ability to understand this thread, let along my statements in it.

We do not have a high enough birth rate to maintain our culture. Are we clear?

And children born in the United States are legal citizens.


And I think your idea of culture should go by the wayside.

(08-16-2013 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:19 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  If you think having more children is going to keep that cultural identity magically frozen in time...then have at it. It has and always will evolve and there is nothing wrong with that. What is important is that we follow the document that is supposed to guide our experiment. BTW...We already do everything we can to ignore it and have so for a long time. THIS is why we are screwed...not because of birth rates.

More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

There is no preservative for culture that I am aware of. I guess folks could compound themselves off from everyone else and try..but..that usually ends up with unintended consequences. I don't think you are intending this..but..this conversation is sounding very Xenophobic.

Yes there is. That's exactly why we have borders, legal ways to become citizens and naturalization laws.

I fully support cracking down on illegal immigration. I have been very consistent on this issue. End citizenship just because you are "born" on US soil...End the welfare state that incentivizes illegal immigration...Fine the living hell out of anyone that hires an undocumented worker for starters. There is no need for fences. Stop the policies that make them come here in the first place. I have no problem with allowing migrants to work in the US. We need the labor. I just want them to go home like the used to do for decades before we gave them reasons to stay.

I agree with all of that. Except for the part about us needing labor. Holding employers feet to fire and curbing illegal immigration will force them to pay a wage an American worker can live on. It's not that Americans won't do those jobs, it's that companies have figured out they can save a hell of a lot of money by paying less than minimum wage to illegal aliens. They can also bypass providing benefits.

Illegal immigration is just one factor in my previous points. Our low birth rate in addition to our increase in legal immigration on top of illegal immigration is destroying our demographic stability. Hence changing the cultural face of America. People say: "So what as long as they are American." Ask the British how multiculturalism worked out regarding people from Arabic countries. They may be Britons, but they sure as hell don't fit in to the culture.

(08-16-2013 02:01 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:58 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

I bet there's some foreign blood in your woodpile, and you turned into a good, solid, red-blooded 'mercan.

There is foreign blood in every human who identifies with a nationality.

What's your point? That doesn't mean I think it is a good idea to flood the nation with people from Pakistan because we are too wrapped up in our careers to have kids. At what point do we start resembling Pakistan?
Get it?

When the Rockies grow to 30,000 feet??

(08-16-2013 03:42 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:19 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 01:56 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  More children from native born citizens. Not foreign born. If you cannot see how that preserves our culture, I cannot help you.

There is no preservative for culture that I am aware of. I guess folks could compound themselves off from everyone else and try..but..that usually ends up with unintended consequences. I don't think you are intending this..but..this conversation is sounding very Xenophobic.

Yes there is. That's exactly why we have borders, legal ways to become citizens and naturalization laws.

I fully support cracking down on illegal immigration. I have been very consistent on this issue. End citizenship just because you are "born" on US soil...End the welfare state that incentivizes illegal immigration...Fine the living hell out of anyone that hires an undocumented worker for starters. There is no need for fences. Stop the policies that make them come here in the first place. I have no problem with allowing migrants to work in the US. We need the labor. I just want them to go home like the used to do for decades before we gave them reasons to stay.

I agree with all of that. Except for the part about us needing labor. Holding employers feet to fire and curbing illegal immigration will force them to pay a wage an American worker can live on. It's not that Americans won't do those jobs, it's that companies have figured out they can save a hell of a lot of money by paying less than minimum wage to illegal aliens. They can also bypass providing benefits.

Illegal immigration is just one factor in my previous points. Our low birth rate in addition to our increase in legal immigration on top of illegal immigration is destroying our demographic stability. Hence changing the cultural face of America. People say: "So what as long as they are American." Ask the British how multiculturalism worked out regarding people from Arabic countries. They may be Britons, but they sure as hell don't fit in to the culture.

If we are prepared to pay for the cost of the labor in our goods..then I am fine with limiting guest workers. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking prices would not increase.

(08-16-2013 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:42 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:19 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  There is no preservative for culture that I am aware of. I guess folks could compound themselves off from everyone else and try..but..that usually ends up with unintended consequences. I don't think you are intending this..but..this conversation is sounding very Xenophobic.

Yes there is. That's exactly why we have borders, legal ways to become citizens and naturalization laws.

I fully support cracking down on illegal immigration. I have been very consistent on this issue. End citizenship just because you are "born" on US soil...End the welfare state that incentivizes illegal immigration...Fine the living hell out of anyone that hires an undocumented worker for starters. There is no need for fences. Stop the policies that make them come here in the first place. I have no problem with allowing migrants to work in the US. We need the labor. I just want them to go home like the used to do for decades before we gave them reasons to stay.

I agree with all of that. Except for the part about us needing labor. Holding employers feet to fire and curbing illegal immigration will force them to pay a wage an American worker can live on. It's not that Americans won't do those jobs, it's that companies have figured out they can save a hell of a lot of money by paying less than minimum wage to illegal aliens. They can also bypass providing benefits.

Illegal immigration is just one factor in my previous points. Our low birth rate in addition to our increase in legal immigration on top of illegal immigration is destroying our demographic stability. Hence changing the cultural face of America. People say: "So what as long as they are American." Ask the British how multiculturalism worked out regarding people from Arabic countries. They may be Britons, but they sure as hell don't fit in to the culture.

If we are prepared to pay for the cost of the labor in our goods..then I am fine with limiting guest workers. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking prices would not increase.

Prices are already increasing due to our current administration. It's called printing money and devaluing the dollar. We put a man on the moon we can pick our own food and mow our own damn lawns.

I've heard all the scare tactics about how lettuce will cost 10 dollars a head. I doubt that, but so be it. The market will resolve that problem on its own.

Lower birth rates are a consequence of affluence. We evidently have done something right at some point in this country. We should be proud that we no longer need large families.

People had large families to survive on the farm. It was a labor thing as much as anything else. We no longer are an agrarian society and yet some folks are still having large families for the same reason...survival. The more kids they have...the more government handouts and benefits they receive.

If we are concerned with "losing our culture" because of the increase in the population of this segment of our society?..then we must do something about stopping the incentives to have a large family based upon the welfare state. I am fully on board with doing that regardless of this culture issue.

(08-16-2013 03:59 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:42 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:19 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Yes there is. That's exactly why we have borders, legal ways to become citizens and naturalization laws.

I fully support cracking down on illegal immigration. I have been very consistent on this issue. End citizenship just because you are "born" on US soil...End the welfare state that incentivizes illegal immigration...Fine the living hell out of anyone that hires an undocumented worker for starters. There is no need for fences. Stop the policies that make them come here in the first place. I have no problem with allowing migrants to work in the US. We need the labor. I just want them to go home like the used to do for decades before we gave them reasons to stay.

I agree with all of that. Except for the part about us needing labor. Holding employers feet to fire and curbing illegal immigration will force them to pay a wage an American worker can live on. It's not that Americans won't do those jobs, it's that companies have figured out they can save a hell of a lot of money by paying less than minimum wage to illegal aliens. They can also bypass providing benefits.

Illegal immigration is just one factor in my previous points. Our low birth rate in addition to our increase in legal immigration on top of illegal immigration is destroying our demographic stability. Hence changing the cultural face of America. People say: "So what as long as they are American." Ask the British how multiculturalism worked out regarding people from Arabic countries. They may be Britons, but they sure as hell don't fit in to the culture.

If we are prepared to pay for the cost of the labor in our goods..then I am fine with limiting guest workers. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking prices would not increase.

Prices are already increasing due to our current administration. It's called printing money and devaluing the dollar. We put a man on the moon we can pick our own food and mow our own damn lawns.

I've heard all the scare tactics about how lettuce will cost 10 dollars a head. I doubt that, but so be it. The market will resolve that problem on its own.

The marketplace will find equilibrium. I expect it would be higher..but..I have no idea how much.

We had migrants for decades and this system worked fine. No reason it still can't IMO.

(08-16-2013 04:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:59 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:42 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I fully support cracking down on illegal immigration. I have been very consistent on this issue. End citizenship just because you are "born" on US soil...End the welfare state that incentivizes illegal immigration...Fine the living hell out of anyone that hires an undocumented worker for starters. There is no need for fences. Stop the policies that make them come here in the first place. I have no problem with allowing migrants to work in the US. We need the labor. I just want them to go home like the used to do for decades before we gave them reasons to stay.

I agree with all of that. Except for the part about us needing labor. Holding employers feet to fire and curbing illegal immigration will force them to pay a wage an American worker can live on. It's not that Americans won't do those jobs, it's that companies have figured out they can save a hell of a lot of money by paying less than minimum wage to illegal aliens. They can also bypass providing benefits.

Illegal immigration is just one factor in my previous points. Our low birth rate in addition to our increase in legal immigration on top of illegal immigration is destroying our demographic stability. Hence changing the cultural face of America. People say: "So what as long as they are American." Ask the British how multiculturalism worked out regarding people from Arabic countries. They may be Britons, but they sure as hell don't fit in to the culture.

If we are prepared to pay for the cost of the labor in our goods..then I am fine with limiting guest workers. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking prices would not increase.

Prices are already increasing due to our current administration. It's called printing money and devaluing the dollar. We put a man on the moon we can pick our own food and mow our own damn lawns.

I've heard all the scare tactics about how lettuce will cost 10 dollars a head. I doubt that, but so be it. The market will resolve that problem on its own.

The marketplace will find equilibrium. I expect it would be higher..but..I have no idea how much.

We had migrants for decades and this system worked fine. No reason it still can't IMO.

Guest workers are fine. Illegal immigration destroys our country and is completely unfair to the people sitting down in Mexico who have decided to immigrate to this country legally.

(08-16-2013 04:37 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 04:09 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:59 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:42 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I agree with all of that. Except for the part about us needing labor. Holding employers feet to fire and curbing illegal immigration will force them to pay a wage an American worker can live on. It's not that Americans won't do those jobs, it's that companies have figured out they can save a hell of a lot of money by paying less than minimum wage to illegal aliens. They can also bypass providing benefits.

Illegal immigration is just one factor in my previous points. Our low birth rate in addition to our increase in legal immigration on top of illegal immigration is destroying our demographic stability. Hence changing the cultural face of America. People say: "So what as long as they are American." Ask the British how multiculturalism worked out regarding people from Arabic countries. They may be Britons, but they sure as hell don't fit in to the culture.

If we are prepared to pay for the cost of the labor in our goods..then I am fine with limiting guest workers. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking prices would not increase.

Prices are already increasing due to our current administration. It's called printing money and devaluing the dollar. We put a man on the moon we can pick our own food and mow our own damn lawns.

I've heard all the scare tactics about how lettuce will cost 10 dollars a head. I doubt that, but so be it. The market will resolve that problem on its own.

The marketplace will find equilibrium. I expect it would be higher..but..I have no idea how much.

We had migrants for decades and this system worked fine. No reason it still can't IMO.

Guest workers are fine. Illegal immigration destroys our country and is completely unfair to the people sitting down in Mexico who have decided to immigrate to this country legally.

No argument from me.

(08-16-2013 01:04 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 12:30 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 12:04 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Which averages out to 1.6 per woman in 2008 and 1.89 per woman in 2011.

The fertility rate is 1.89 children per each woman. That is too low to maintain a culture. It was too low in 2008(1.6) and it is too low now. I'm betting if you haven't been able to understand this by now, you may never understand it.

This overall contraction in childbearing was also seen in the nation’s total fertility rate, which dipped to 1.89 children per woman — well below the 2.1 children-per-woman replacement rate that a nation needs for demographic stability. The U.S. fertility rate was at replacement level in 2007, but it has been falling ever since

Can you not see the incoherence in your own posts? The total fertility rate (not birth rate) was at the replacement level for demographic stability (not cultural stability) in 2007 and has been falling ever since. Yet you say it was 1.6 in 2008 and 1.89 in 2011. I guess the total fertility rate managed to pull off that unique trick of falling up.

What this means is that you should be even more freaked out than you already are. If illegals somehow (with your new math and all)accounted for 25% of the total fertility rate in 2008 they probably are making up a similar percentage today. By your math the total fertility rate should be down around 1.3, which, if I remember Craigg639's super special video, means we're DOOMED.

(08-16-2013 03:59 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Prices are already increasing due to our current administration. It's called printing money and devaluing the dollar. We put a man on the moon we can pick our own food and mow our own damn lawns.

I've heard all the scare tactics about how lettuce will cost 10 dollars a head. I doubt that, but so be it. The market will resolve that problem on its own.

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie [the middle class] is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." Karl Marx, Obama hero.

(08-19-2013 10:06 AM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 03:59 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Prices are already increasing due to our current administration. It's called printing money and devaluing the dollar. We put a man on the moon we can pick our own food and mow our own damn lawns.

I've heard all the scare tactics about how lettuce will cost 10 dollars a head. I doubt that, but so be it. The market will resolve that problem on its own.

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie [the middle class] is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." Karl Marx, Obama hero.

Not that it makes much of a difference, but bourgeoisie doesn't refer to today's idea of the middle class in Marx's writing. Back then he was referring to the new class that formed between the working people(middle class) and aristocracy. To be fair, a lot of capitalists of the day hated the new bourgeoisie.