(04-30-2013 08:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:12 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 04:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:37 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Advocates of drug legalization should know that legalizing drugs will almost certainly decrease prices and increase the overall death rates due to drugs and the proportion of deaths related to the recreational drugs that are currently illegal. Likewise with removal of restrictions on "controlled" drugs.

That has not been the case in Portugal.

Nice isolation study there cheif...how is Amsterdam...are their laws the same as Portugal's....and what is the overall economy relative to how either would impact America.

This board/thread is so stupid it's not even gdm funny. It is impossible to debate this issue.

Godfkndam

I would not use Portugal as an example of what would be a good drug policy. Although one will not get thrown in jail for simple possession, the consequences can be almost as bad ranging from stiff fines, property seizures to losing the right to bear arms. It still does nothing to stop an illegal black market since it does nothing to make sales legal. I guess it is a step in the right direction, but not a glorious one.

The policy of the Netherlands is still the preferable one to me. There is no punishment for small amounts of Cannabis being possessed and one can personally grow up to 5 plants for personal use. Allowing legal sales and personal cultivation addressed to a degree the black market issue.

Lets be clear. Legalization of Cannabis occurs nowhere. It is still illegal in both Portugal and the Netherlands. It is controlled..not legalized.

I heard about this the other day.... cops return the green

(04-30-2013 07:51 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:08 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 04:16 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 03:04 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I would simply start with Cannabis first. We already have examples in 12 states of the methodology of control with Medical Cannabis and nationwide experience with hard alcohol control. Some states do it better than others. Removing Cannabis from the black market would do wonders to ease law enforcement pressure and let them concentrate more on the really dangerous black market substances. It would also end a ton of the violence associated with Cannabis. Use Cannabis as the ground floor experiment in legalization and then go from there. I would never advocate wholesale legalization at this point. We are no where ready for such a thing and those that advocate for this are foolish.

One thing is for sure. What we are doing now is not working. Let's also not forget that Cannabis holds great potential as a revenue stream for government much like Alcohol and Tobacco. Cannabis is a commodity. It is just not a legal one.

If I live in a state where it has been legalized, I am turning to the industrial side immediately....forget about the 'drug' side....

I can't wait to see how the feds fk this up this go round.

The mere fact that industrial Hemp is illegal to grow in America should tell people that are paying any attention that this is being controlled by businesses..not government. Industrial Hemp is a direct competitor to the timber industry and it has so little THC content that one would have to smoke a damn boatload to get high. Industrial Hemp also destroys the THC content of Cannabis through Xpolination. From what I remember...Industrial Hemp is the dominate cultivar and when Xpolination occurs the result is a plant with more of the dominate plants characteristics. So...planting industrial Hemp would actually do damage to the Cannabis crop being grown outdoors. The excuses for not allowing Industrial Hemp are based on no reasonable logic. The bottom line is it is protectionism for business interests.

you people on this spin...you really think there is a difference?? are you 5? nfshite

One question. Why is industrial Hemp illegal to grow in America?

b/c of what was stated by both of us...it would destroy big business....my point was that is what gov't is...they are one and the same.

specifically, it was mostly hearst and dupont...would've destroyed their empires

....just like cold fusion would or engineering something to last infinitely....it's why they engineer to fail...

(04-30-2013 08:38 AM)Dak10 Wrote:  So stay away from fun drugs like X and the pony, but green, shrooms, and Sid are okay. 3/5 ain't bad. Shrooms are the best anyway.

In '84 I would disagree....uncle sidney and mdma were pure then.....even the feed has fkd the shrooms down here....

(04-30-2013 02:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:48 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:12 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Nice isolation study there cheif...how is Amsterdam...are their laws the same as Portugal's....and what is the overall economy relative to how either would impact America.

This board/thread is so stupid it's not even gdm funny. It is impossible to debate this issue.

Godfkndam

They are not the same. Portugal is full decriminalization. Of EVERYTHING. Even black tar heroin.

Amsterdam is legal cannabis, only in certain venues, only in certain amounts, and it is not fully decriminalized. Might I add most of the crime associated with cannabis in Amsterdam is from tourists doing benders. Even with that, use rates and crime have gone down.

For the Cannabis user...The Netherlands is the best spot. I have a friend that travels there often and he says no one hassles you about it as long as you use some common sense. You are correct about the "tourists". Often the problems come from people that have never used Cannabis before and decide to give it a try. The coffee shops try to warn first time users and give them very small doses rolled in tobacco. People think they can handle anything and often fail to heed advise. This leads to some seriously Fcked up people who freak out and cause problems. Anyone that has ever use weed knows what I am referring to. It takes a few times to know what levels you tolerate. Obviously doing this in public poses another problem. First timers really should do this in the privacy of their homes...not in public. Not everyone tolerates the effects well. I have seen people get very paranoid and act crazy as hell.

...that's funny

one from the gb is all it takes.....

(04-30-2013 03:47 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I can't say that I'm for complete legalization of everything, but cannabis (because it's not illegal because it's dangerous) and I'd say cocaine should be legal. That would curb worse drugs.

Also, in my experience and those that I've worked with, the deaths due to harder drugs are partly due to the method of taking them rather than the actual drug. Those with heroin pure enough to smoke don't have the same problems as someone who shoots it and their OD rates are way lower.

Impurities are a problem....never did H, but I understand what you mean.

What is really interesting is how legalization nationwide would affect the cartel and their escalation of violence.

Pain regardless....but it has to happen....just the way it has to be. Take away their market and the columbian's....they are going to fight back but in the end it won't matter.

How we didn't learn from prohibition is beyond me. Education is the only answer, b/c the worth of less will continue and the wealthy and educated will also. The demand will always exist regardless of law. The answer is creating an educated society with enough wealth to secure the necessities. We are regressing at this point. Thank you U.S. gov't...good job.

It's a bunch of crap.

(04-30-2013 04:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 03:47 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I can't say that I'm for complete legalization of everything, but cannabis (because it's not illegal because it's dangerous) and I'd say cocaine should be legal. That would curb worse drugs.

Also, in my experience and those that I've worked with, the deaths due to harder drugs are partly due to the method of taking them rather than the actual drug. Those with heroin pure enough to smoke don't have the same problems as someone who shoots it and their OD rates are way lower.

When you create a black market you create incentives to "cut" drugs with other dangerous substances to increase profit margins. In free market competition this does not happen. Consumers would quickly refrain from buying product from those not giving them value for their dollar. Also in a free market producers would give accurate dosage information and the product would be consistent in potency. Both of which would reduce mistakes of overdose. I am not an advocate of total legalization, but there are obvious harm reduction qualities of removing these substances from a dangerous black market. We should not just flippantly disregard these ideas.

Very, very good point....

...would liken it to the ability to shop for best value at any level of consumerism

(05-01-2013 08:57 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 08:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:12 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 04:27 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:37 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Advocates of drug legalization should know that legalizing drugs will almost certainly decrease prices and increase the overall death rates due to drugs and the proportion of deaths related to the recreational drugs that are currently illegal. Likewise with removal of restrictions on "controlled" drugs.

That has not been the case in Portugal.

Nice isolation study there cheif...how is Amsterdam...are their laws the same as Portugal's....and what is the overall economy relative to how either would impact America.

This board/thread is so stupid it's not even gdm funny. It is impossible to debate this issue.

Godfkndam

I would not use Portugal as an example of what would be a good drug policy. Although one will not get thrown in jail for simple possession, the consequences can be almost as bad ranging from stiff fines, property seizures to losing the right to bear arms. It still does nothing to stop an illegal black market since it does nothing to make sales legal. I guess it is a step in the right direction, but not a glorious one.

The policy of the Netherlands is still the preferable one to me. There is no punishment for small amounts of Cannabis being possessed and one can personally grow up to 5 plants for personal use. Allowing legal sales and personal cultivation addressed to a degree the black market issue.

Lets be clear. Legalization of Cannabis occurs nowhere. It is still illegal in both Portugal and the Netherlands. It is controlled..not legalized.

I heard about this the other day.... cops return the green

Sounds like the cops understand that Cannabis is not a threat and are using the equivalent of "jury nullification" in Seattle. Thanks for the link.

(05-01-2013 09:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 02:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:48 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:12 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Nice isolation study there cheif...how is Amsterdam...are their laws the same as Portugal's....and what is the overall economy relative to how either would impact America.

This board/thread is so stupid it's not even gdm funny. It is impossible to debate this issue.

Godfkndam

They are not the same. Portugal is full decriminalization. Of EVERYTHING. Even black tar heroin.

Amsterdam is legal cannabis, only in certain venues, only in certain amounts, and it is not fully decriminalized. Might I add most of the crime associated with cannabis in Amsterdam is from tourists doing benders. Even with that, use rates and crime have gone down.

For the Cannabis user...The Netherlands is the best spot. I have a friend that travels there often and he says no one hassles you about it as long as you use some common sense. You are correct about the "tourists". Often the problems come from people that have never used Cannabis before and decide to give it a try. The coffee shops try to warn first time users and give them very small doses rolled in tobacco. People think they can handle anything and often fail to heed advise. This leads to some seriously Fcked up people who freak out and cause problems. Anyone that has ever use weed knows what I am referring to. It takes a few times to know what levels you tolerate. Obviously doing this in public poses another problem. First timers really should do this in the privacy of their homes...not in public. Not everyone tolerates the effects well. I have seen people get very paranoid and act crazy as hell.

...that's funny

one from the gb is all it takes.....

Yep....The same thing happens with many substances...nicotine...alcohol...pain meds..ect. One never knows how they will react to using a substance for the first time. Anyone that has ever use tobacco can not say that the first time they used it was pleasurable experience....if so?...they are a damn liar.

(05-01-2013 09:49 PM)Redbanksdog Wrote:  It's a bunch of crap.

OK.

(05-01-2013 11:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 09:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 02:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:48 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:12 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  Nice isolation study there cheif...how is Amsterdam...are their laws the same as Portugal's....and what is the overall economy relative to how either would impact America.

This board/thread is so stupid it's not even gdm funny. It is impossible to debate this issue.

Godfkndam

They are not the same. Portugal is full decriminalization. Of EVERYTHING. Even black tar heroin.

Amsterdam is legal cannabis, only in certain venues, only in certain amounts, and it is not fully decriminalized. Might I add most of the crime associated with cannabis in Amsterdam is from tourists doing benders. Even with that, use rates and crime have gone down.

For the Cannabis user...The Netherlands is the best spot. I have a friend that travels there often and he says no one hassles you about it as long as you use some common sense. You are correct about the "tourists". Often the problems come from people that have never used Cannabis before and decide to give it a try. The coffee shops try to warn first time users and give them very small doses rolled in tobacco. People think they can handle anything and often fail to heed advise. This leads to some seriously Fcked up people who freak out and cause problems. Anyone that has ever use weed knows what I am referring to. It takes a few times to know what levels you tolerate. Obviously doing this in public poses another problem. First timers really should do this in the privacy of their homes...not in public. Not everyone tolerates the effects well. I have seen people get very paranoid and act crazy as hell.

...that's funny

one from the gb is all it takes.....

Yep....The same thing happens with many substances...nicotine...alcohol...pain meds..ect. One never knows how they will react to using a substance for the first time. Anyone that has ever use tobacco can not say that the first time they used it was pleasurable experience....if so?...they are a damn liar.

14 years old...behind the woodpile...3 Kools....1 hour on the couch afterwards...thought I was going to die....the world was spinning faster than I could take....

There is a reason that most addictive drugs in order are Morphine, Nicotine, Heroin etc....

(05-02-2013 06:55 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 09:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 02:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 12:48 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  They are not the same. Portugal is full decriminalization. Of EVERYTHING. Even black tar heroin.

Amsterdam is legal cannabis, only in certain venues, only in certain amounts, and it is not fully decriminalized. Might I add most of the crime associated with cannabis in Amsterdam is from tourists doing benders. Even with that, use rates and crime have gone down.

For the Cannabis user...The Netherlands is the best spot. I have a friend that travels there often and he says no one hassles you about it as long as you use some common sense. You are correct about the "tourists". Often the problems come from people that have never used Cannabis before and decide to give it a try. The coffee shops try to warn first time users and give them very small doses rolled in tobacco. People think they can handle anything and often fail to heed advise. This leads to some seriously Fcked up people who freak out and cause problems. Anyone that has ever use weed knows what I am referring to. It takes a few times to know what levels you tolerate. Obviously doing this in public poses another problem. First timers really should do this in the privacy of their homes...not in public. Not everyone tolerates the effects well. I have seen people get very paranoid and act crazy as hell.

...that's funny

one from the gb is all it takes.....

Yep....The same thing happens with many substances...nicotine...alcohol...pain meds..ect. One never knows how they will react to using a substance for the first time. Anyone that has ever use tobacco can not say that the first time they used it was pleasurable experience....if so?...they are a damn liar.

14 years old...behind the woodpile...3 Kools....1 hour on the couch afterwards...thought I was going to die....the world was spinning faster than I could take....

There is a reason that most addictive drugs in order are Morphine, Nicotine, Heroin etc....

It really is amazing that anyone would continue to smoke after that first bad experience. It should have been obvious that this stuff is toxic as hell to us.

(05-02-2013 08:05 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-02-2013 06:55 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 09:22 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 02:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  For the Cannabis user...The Netherlands is the best spot. I have a friend that travels there often and he says no one hassles you about it as long as you use some common sense. You are correct about the "tourists". Often the problems come from people that have never used Cannabis before and decide to give it a try. The coffee shops try to warn first time users and give them very small doses rolled in tobacco. People think they can handle anything and often fail to heed advise. This leads to some seriously Fcked up people who freak out and cause problems. Anyone that has ever use weed knows what I am referring to. It takes a few times to know what levels you tolerate. Obviously doing this in public poses another problem. First timers really should do this in the privacy of their homes...not in public. Not everyone tolerates the effects well. I have seen people get very paranoid and act crazy as hell.

...that's funny

one from the gb is all it takes.....

Yep....The same thing happens with many substances...nicotine...alcohol...pain meds..ect. One never knows how they will react to using a substance for the first time. Anyone that has ever use tobacco can not say that the first time they used it was pleasurable experience....if so?...they are a damn liar.

14 years old...behind the woodpile...3 Kools....1 hour on the couch afterwards...thought I was going to die....the world was spinning faster than I could take....

There is a reason that most addictive drugs in order are Morphine, Nicotine, Heroin etc....

It really is amazing that anyone would continue to smoke after that first bad experience. It should have been obvious that this stuff is toxic as hell to us.

...couldn't agree more...took me starting (b/c all the guys I grew up with were 3/4 yrs older and thought I was being cool...back then it was 75 cents from a machine) to get my parents to quit...I quit when I got married and started when I got divorced (not b/c of that but I gained 80 lbs). There is a reason that super models smoke and snort....it's really simple...way easier to not do coke than quit smoking. I know from experience.