(03-27-2013 02:20 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Two of their own???? Dude Cincy was a conference USA team not to long again and has Uconn ever even won a major bowl game or done anything of note in football?

So, 2003 (when UC and USF received Big East invites) was "not too long ago"? It was a decade ago...I guess that's your definition of not too long ago. UConn has won severa BE championships (when WVU, Pitt, etc. were a part of conf.)

Big East championships...wow the conference that everyone wanted to leave? So has Uconn ever won a major bowl game? Answer that question not dogging them just being honest. Most teams have not won a major bowl game and that is part of the reason why they are where they are.

And no ten years is not a long time ago no matter how you try to spin it. Do you also consider a ten year old a mature adult? I'm pretty sure everyone above the age of twenty can remember ten years ago there honestly hasn't been much change in the world since then aside from people paying to much for anything with a apple logo on it.

(03-27-2013 02:20 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Two of their own???? Dude Cincy was a conference USA team not to long again and has Uconn ever even won a major bowl game or done anything of note in football?

So, 2003 (when UC and USF received Big East invites) was "not too long ago"? It was a decade ago...I guess that's your definition of not too long ago. UConn has won severa BE championships (when WVU, Pitt, etc. were a part of conf.)

If you are twenty something, 10 years is almost half a lifetime ago. If are my age, it's a blip on the calendar lol!

(03-27-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:20 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Two of their own???? Dude Cincy was a conference USA team not to long again and has Uconn ever even won a major bowl game or done anything of note in football?

So, 2003 (when UC and USF received Big East invites) was "not too long ago"? It was a decade ago...I guess that's your definition of not too long ago. UConn has won severa BE championships (when WVU, Pitt, etc. were a part of conf.)

I am not going to look it up, but if my memory is correct I believe that Louisville, Marquette, DePaul, Cincinatti and USF didn't join the BE until 2005. If it was 2005, then that was not a decade.

Invited 10 years ago, joined 8 years ago (2 year waiting period).

(03-27-2013 02:30 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:20 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Two of their own???? Dude Cincy was a conference USA team not to long again and has Uconn ever even won a major bowl game or done anything of note in football?

So, 2003 (when UC and USF received Big East invites) was "not too long ago"? It was a decade ago...I guess that's your definition of not too long ago. UConn has won severa BE championships (when WVU, Pitt, etc. were a part of conf.)

I am not going to look it up, but if my memory is correct I believe that Louisville, Marquette, DePaul, Cincinatti and USF didn't join the BE until 2005. If it was 2005, then that was not a decade.

Invited 10 years ago, joined 8 years ago (2 year waiting period).

Pretty much what everyone is saying is that the fact is you were left behind because your not "one of their own" And it's rather comical when USF and Cincy act like those teams have an obligation to save them. If you earned your way in like Louisville sure.

But winning the Big East championships hold as much street cred as Conference USA championships now.

Why UConn and Cincy? Because they are/were part of a conference that had an AQ status? If that's the reason, then why not mention USF as well?

None of those leagues took Louisville, Rutgers, Maryland, West Virginia, etc. to "save" them. They either took them out of necessity to fill an empty slot and get back to a certain number of teams i.e. TCU/West Va replacing Mizzou/A&M or they took them because they improved their footprint which in turn improved their bottom line TV dollars i.e. the SEC and picking up the states Missouri / Texas or the B1G picking up New York/New Jersey and Maryland.

None of those conferences are trying to "save one of their own" elsewise they would have left the ENTIRE BE alone in the first place.

(03-27-2013 02:39 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:30 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 02:20 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Two of their own???? Dude Cincy was a conference USA team not to long again and has Uconn ever even won a major bowl game or done anything of note in football?

So, 2003 (when UC and USF received Big East invites) was "not too long ago"? It was a decade ago...I guess that's your definition of not too long ago. UConn has won severa BE championships (when WVU, Pitt, etc. were a part of conf.)

I am not going to look it up, but if my memory is correct I believe that Louisville, Marquette, DePaul, Cincinatti and USF didn't join the BE until 2005. If it was 2005, then that was not a decade.

Invited 10 years ago, joined 8 years ago (2 year waiting period).

Pretty much what everyone is saying is that the fact is you were left behind because your not "one of their own" And it's rather comical when USF and Cincy act like those teams have an obligation to save them. If you earned your way in like Louisville sure.

But winning the Big East championships hold as much street cred as Conference USA championships now.

Not true. If this were true, then why is every single team after team leaving CUSA for NBE? Also, do you realistically think that if the ACC or B12 needs additional teams they will get them from CUSA? No. They will get them from NBE/TBA. A team that wins continual NBE championships will be considered for ACC/B12. A CUSA team never will be.

No one is going to pick up UConn, UC, USF, Temple, whoever,etc. just to be the nice guy, or to not leave someone out to dry. They will get picked up, because they have been raided and need additional teams. This will only happen if the B10 decides to make more moves. Period.

(03-27-2013 01:03 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  Is it safe to assume the ACC will save these two once the Maryland lawsuit gets settled and the Big Ten takes who they want?

Is it safe to assume? No. Is it better than a 50:50 chance. Yes. Is it safe to assume that the ACC after being raided will hold onto its "contract conference" status? No.

Its reasonably safe to assume that in five years time, UC will either be in a Best of the Rest conference, either top two or on its own, or else in a "Contract" conference. But banking on being in a "contract" conference in 2020 is not safe to assume.

(03-27-2013 01:19 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:15 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:14 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:12 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:08 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  Two of their own? They weren't a part of the football club just a short 10 years ago. Does membership in the club mean it's permanent? What about Houston and the SWC? Besides, since 2004 most of the P5 felt the Big East wasn't deserving of it's place amongst the power conferences. I remember in the late 90s almost everyone thinking the Big East would implode then. That drug out for 5-6 years and then it happened (to an extent).

And yet just about everyone from the Big East has found a home in a P5 conference except those 2 and USF. No offense USF, but I can see you guys being left behind. UConn hasn't been a part of the D1-A club for very long, but have a long history in athletics. Cincy also has a ridiculously long football history and joined the D1-A club much sooner. I just find it curious that they are being left behind at the moment. They were in the club, most of the members of their conference have found soft landing places, now they are being kicked out?

It's a numbers game all around.

Very true. Just seems odd is all. Don't mean to stir anything up, just a question.

When the B12 has to add 2 schools and they will, Maryland lawsuit becomes final, Cincy and UConn will find their soft landing spot.

are you saying the big 12 will take UConn and Cincinnati? Because no ACC team will leave for the Big 12 unless a bunch of teams leave for SEC or B1G which seem quiet on the expansion front right now.

Whether Cincinnati and Connecticut get picked up depends on whether the power 5 stay the power 5, or become the power 4. And then it depends on which one of the conferences Big 12, or ACC, goes away.

If we stay at 5 power conferences eventually the SEC, ACC, and Big 10 will all want to move to 16. If the ACC is to survive they will need a network eventually. They may choose at some point to try to expand their markets. Both Cincinnati and Connecticut would be logical selections for the ACC even if Notre Dame stays independent for football only. ACC survival is probably the best case scenario for Cincinnati inclusion.

If the Big 12 has to pick up two schools and none of the other power 5 are suffering losses then the best markets might be found in taking Brigham Young and perhaps South Florida (who has tremendous upside). Cincinnati could be a bridge to West Virginia but without Pitt the road is rockier and both USF and BYU have more upside market wise. West Virginia looks to be on an island unless the Big 12 is parsed out.

Even if we move to 4 power conferences with the ACC surviving this remains the best scenario for Cincinnati.

I really cant foresee too many possibilities for Cincinnati if the ACC goes.

Let's say the long assumed raid of the ACC happens. I believe both the SEC and Big 10 would find enough profit to move to a minimum of 18 a piece off of that break up. Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Florida State (or Miami), and Georgia Tech could all likely wind up in either the SEC or Big 10 in that event.

Syracuse, Boston College, Clemson, Louisville and most likely Miami instead of F.S.U., and possibly Wake Forest could all wind up in the Big 12. Connecticut might get a look here, but Louisville's inclusion in the Big 12 would almost certainly hurt any chance of Cincinnati's inclusion.

Right now the outlook favors both Cincinnati and Connecticut. No movement and the coming scheduling difficulties of 14 teams raise the prospect that 6 more schools may be selected to the upper tier if the status quo on the number of 5 conferences holds. The possible beneficiaries of this stalemate could be: Connecticut, Cincinnati, South Florida, Brigham Young, and also possibly but less likely, Houston, S.M.U., Boise State, Nevada, New Mexico, Tulane, and Colorado State. Of the latter Colorado State has one of the better markets to offer and Tulane would offer the Big 12 a new state and an AAU school or even a long shot academic fit for the ACC if they added two more.

(03-27-2013 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Right now the outlook favors both Cincinnati and Connecticut. No movement and the coming scheduling difficulties of 14 teams raise the prospect that 6 more schools may be selected to the upper tier if the status quo on the number of 5 conferences holds. The possible beneficiaries of this stalemate could be: Connecticut, Cincinnati, South Florida, Brigham Young, and also possibly but less likely, Houston, S.M.U., Boise State, Nevada, New Mexico, Tulane, and Colorado State. Of the latter Colorado State has one of the better markets to offer and Tulane would offer the Big 12 a new state and an AAU school or even a long shot academic fit for the ACC if they added two more.

I see Temple and UCF in the mix if the ACC needs to add 4-6 teams.

IMO these are the top 6 teams next in line in the east (not including BYU or Boise).

UConn
UC
USF
UCF
Houston
Temple/Memphis

(03-27-2013 01:03 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  I'm just curious. Are the big boys really going to leave two of their own out of the money? I mean, I know the current Big East's TV deal wasn't great, but they are going to take a pretty good hit with this new TV deal. Mainly, they lose out on the postseason money that the P5 conferences are going to rake in.

Is it safe to assume the ACC will save these two once the Maryland lawsuit gets settled and the Big Ten takes who they want?

What has really happened is consolidation from six leagues to five. Comparing the BCS structure of 1998-2012 with the constituent members of the six AQ leagues at that time to the membership of the power 5 conferences moving forward (2014 and beyond), you will note that Utah, TCU, and Louisville have been 'promoted' while UConn, Cincinnati, USF, and Temple have been 'relegated'. None of the four former AQ members to have been relegated were constituent members of the Big East football league for the entire BCS time period.

A lot of folks assume UConn and Cincy are 'next in line' and they very well may be. That said, I don't think any bets are safe with realignment. It all depends on the sequence of events to come.

(03-27-2013 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Whether Cincinnati and Connecticut get picked up depends on whether the power 5 stay the power 5, or become the power 4. And then it depends on which one of the conferences Big 12, or ACC, goes away.

If we stay at 5 power conferences eventually the SEC, ACC, and Big 10 will all want to move to 16. If the ACC is to survive they will need a network eventually. They may choose at some point to try to expand their markets. Both Cincinnati and Connecticut would be logical selections for the ACC even if Notre Dame stays independent for football only. ACC survival is probably the best case scenario for Cincinnati inclusion.

If the Big 12 has to pick up two schools and none of the other power 5 are suffering losses then the best markets might be found in taking Brigham Young and perhaps South Florida (who has tremendous upside). Cincinnati could be a bridge to West Virginia but without Pitt the road is rockier and both USF and BYU have more upside market wise. West Virginia looks to be on an island unless the Big 12 is parsed out.

Even if we move to 4 power conferences with the ACC surviving this remains the best scenario for Cincinnati.

I really cant foresee too many possibilities for Cincinnati if the ACC goes.

Let's say the long assumed raid of the ACC happens. I believe both the SEC and Big 10 would find enough profit to move to a minimum of 18 a piece off of that break up. Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Florida State (or Miami), and Georgia Tech could all likely wind up in either the SEC or Big 10 in that event.

Syracuse, Boston College, Clemson, Louisville and most likely Miami instead of F.S.U., and possibly Wake Forest could all wind up in the Big 12. Connecticut might get a look here, but Louisville's inclusion in the Big 12 would almost certainly hurt any chance of Cincinnati's inclusion.

Right now the outlook favors both Cincinnati and Connecticut. No movement and the coming scheduling difficulties of 14 teams raise the prospect that 6 more schools may be selected to the upper tier if the status quo on the number of 5 conferences holds. The possible beneficiaries of this stalemate could be: Connecticut, Cincinnati, South Florida, Brigham Young, and also possibly but less likely, Houston, S.M.U., Boise State, Nevada, New Mexico, Tulane, and Colorado State. Of the latter Colorado State has one of the better markets to offer and Tulane would offer the Big 12 a new state and an AAU school or even a long shot academic fit for the ACC if they added two more.

Strong post.

First of all, do Cincinnati and UConn even deserve to be in a power conference? In other words, what have they done to distinguish themselves from everybody else?

(03-27-2013 01:12 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 01:08 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  Two of their own? They weren't a part of the football club just a short 10 years ago. Does membership in the club mean it's permanent? What about Houston and the SWC? Besides, since 2004 most of the P5 felt the Big East wasn't deserving of it's place amongst the power conferences. I remember in the late 90s almost everyone thinking the Big East would implode then. That drug out for 5-6 years and then it happened (to an extent).

And yet just about everyone from the Big East has found a home in a P5 conference except those 2 and USF. No offense USF, but I can see you guys being left behind. UConn hasn't been a part of the D1-A club for very long, but have a long history in athletics. Cincy also has a ridiculously long football history and joined the D1-A club much sooner. I just find it curious that they are being left behind at the moment. They were in the club, most of the members of their conference have found soft landing places, now they are being kicked out?

Look at Cincinnati's and USF's spending on athletics. They are the bottom two AQ schools. That's why UL got in ACC ahead of UConn. Memphis, BYU and a few others are ahead of Cincinnati and USF. As for UConn, they sued the ACC and BC. Gave a little extra push to add UL instead of them. UConn isn't that high on the spending list either.

And how are UCONN, and Cincy different from USF?? Cincy and USF joined BE same time and Uconn went 1A in football at that same time. None of them has much more of a claim to be moved than the others do.

(03-27-2013 04:29 PM)gocards#1 Wrote:  First of all, do Cincinnati and UConn even deserve to be in a power conference? In other words, what have they done to distinguish themselves from everybody else?

No they do not belong in a power fb conference, Cincy lost to Toledo MAC W 3rd place finish, UCONN lost at home to MAC W Western Mich 5th place. Cincy had a nice run under BK, well name a team that did not.

(03-27-2013 04:53 PM)cmufanatic Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 04:29 PM)gocards#1 Wrote:  First of all, do Cincinnati and UConn even deserve to be in a power conference? In other words, what have they done to distinguish themselves from everybody else?

No they do not belong in a power fb conference, Cincy lost to Toledo MAC W 3rd place finish, UCONN lost at home to MAC W Western Mich 5th place. Cincy had a nice run under BK, well name a team that did not.

Then probably everybody but maybe ten or fifteen power schools should get bumped.

(03-27-2013 04:45 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  And how are UCONN, and Cincy different from USF?? Cincy and USF joined BE same time and Uconn went 1A in football at that same time. None of them has much more of a claim to be moved than the others do.

That's true, but if long term stalemates wind up in place the question is really how much easier would it be to move to 16 to resolve the difficulties especially is some new market value could be had.

I tend to believe that if the ACC holds the three strongest conferences will again turn their attention on the Big 12. Grant of rights or not if 8 teams can be successfully placed it can be done through dissolution. The problem is all three of the Big 10, PAC, and SEC will want essentially the same teams. Careful cooperation and division must happen if they move to 4 that way.

Kansas and OU or Kansas and UConn to the Big 10.
West Virginia and OU, or West Virginia and OSU to the SEC.
Texas, Iowa State, Kansas State and Texas Tech to the PAC.
The ACC would have an option of Cincinnati, Baylor, T.C.U., Tulane, or possibly Connecticut to 16 if N.D. stays independent (and they will).

How long it takes that to happen will be the question. But a Big 12 that doesn't expand further and is trapped between three richer conferences with networks will not survive. If the ACC is raided and the Big 12 grows and develops its own networks it will be a different matter.

The question that needs asked is who is worth whatever the TV deal pays each season...no so much in the early years but 18 million average over the life of the deal. Can Uconn, Cincy, or whoever add that kind of value? USF/UCF maybe can if the ACC loses FSU and maybe another, but Uconn/Cincy has a ton of work in front of them before either adds that kind of value and not take away from what others are already making. USF/UCF have the HUGE advantage of being in the football crazed state of Florida.