(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

So using your Logic Florida shouldn't ever expect to win it all again because they only did it two times in a row...

VCU should never think they have a shot at making the final four because they only did it once...

And Memphis should never think they have a shot at winning a National Championship because we never have...Gotcha.

Its called improvement...We never had comparable resources to alot of the teams that were ahead of in basketball in the past, that is no longer the case. Keep being mediocre and those resources may start to disappear.

(01-11-2013 09:51 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 07:26 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 07:11 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  It's time to either put up or shut up. I still have hope we can start pushing ourselves each and every game. We have had some good leads only to squander them. Had we played like we cared where do you a see a lose right now? Against VCU we played like it didn't matter, we should have beat Minnesota but we didn't defend well or act like we cared, Louisville ourscred us by 24 from the damn freethrow line. We were 15 points better then them from the floor.
We have got to close out games, we have got to put forth max effort, and we have got to stay motivated day in and day out. I can accept a lose. But I will not except our players not F'ing trying or acting like they don't give a ****. That's what pisses me off. the players lack of intensity.

I think thats a crock.

To say the team played like they didn't give a damn is just total BS. There in no shame in losing to a final 4 team like UL or even giving up a big lead WAY early in the game. UL is one of the 3 best teams in the nation and they are that good. No shame in the other 2 losses either. We are not on some other level than the teams we lost to and its foolish to suggest we are or should be. We lost to 3 very good teams. Could we have won 2 of them? Absolutely. Were we not playing our best BB? Not even close. But for God's sake it was NOVEMBER. ITs NOT the end of the season and its NOT the last word on what this team is going to accomplish or become.

Just saying "I expect more" does not make you a better or smarter fan. We ALL wanted to win those (including the players) and were all disappointed to lose them.

You are not in a unique position to think we could have played better or being disappointed. We ALL were.

Look I'm not here to get into a back and forth pissing match. I didn't mention anything about not playing hard against Louisville. I gave the reason why we lost that game. But we sure as hell didn't play inspired basketball against VCU or Minnesota and to say otherwise is a f'ing croc. VCU players themselves in their little huddle said "They don't want it". Loud on National TV.

I don't care if it's November, Dec, March, whatever. We don't have Freshmen or Sophomores anymore. We have Juniors, Seniors, and the newcomers we have are all pretty damn good. Our problem is intensity. When your opponent gets 10 open threes a gam its a damn problem, when your opponents guards drive the lane and score at will it's a problem, when you don't rotate/switch like you have done it atleast once before it's a problem, when you take not just 1 but 10 horrible shots a game and waste possessions it's a problem. I could go on and on for the VCU and Minnesota losses.

As far as your Louisville comment we all know why we lost that game and it wasn't because our boys didn't leave it all on the court. As I said and I know you read it because you took the time to highlight it. We beat them by 15 points on the floor. The Freethrows and bull**** saved that final four top 3-4 team from getting their asses handed to them.

For the last 3 years I have been defending this team. But this is the 4th year after Cal. It's time to do something. Like I said Im not giving up hope and I have faith Josh can get them ready come Tourney time.

But in my opinion and it's been pretty decent on here most of the time.
We need to work on a few things and we can see what this team is truly about.

Intensity, Heart, Will to win.

There is a difference in wanting to win the game and doing everything possible to actually win the game. Giving ECU a 22-0 run was pathetic. Play hard for 40 minutes, not 15-20.

Nothing against anyone personally. Not gonna call out specific players and I think Josh is a good coach/great recruiter who is still developing but getting better every season. I love Josh as our coach. I just don't know why we don't play hard for 40 minutes every game.

We are not a young team and like I said I can take the losses. I just want to see the team play hard for 40 minutes every game. If we lose we lose but atleast we played like we wanted to dominate and not just slide by.

^^ Great Post ^^

It ain't over til it's over

(01-10-2013 10:42 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  OK, our Tigers are 11-3 following our victory over ECU. I am pretty happy with where we are right now, considering the season as a whole, and considering how some of the "big names" in college basketball are doing right now. Here are some comparisons for you.

Memphis 11-3 (not ranked in either poll)
Coach: Josh Pastner - 4th year as a head coach
recent National Championships - none

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
VCU (24,26)
Minnesota (8,10)
Louisville (3,4)

Kentucky 10-4 (out of top 25, 28 and 32 in others receiving votes)
Coach: John Calapari
recent National Championships - 2012

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Duke (1,1)
Notre Dame (16,17)
Baylor (NR)
Louisville (3,4)

North Carolina 9-4 (not ranked in either poll)
Coach: Roy Williams

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Butler (14,17)
Indiana (5,5)
Texas (NR)
Virginia (NR)
Miami (NR)

So, our 3 losses are all to ranked teams. Both KY and NC have lost to unranked teams on their home court. This has happened despite these facts: their programs are "national powers", their coaches are "established" , and their programs have each won national championships within the last 4 years.

I have to say that fans of KY and NC have much more right to be upset about their team's current status than we do.

I would like ask that you review these facts and rethink some of the griping that we see on this board.

1st UNC...They should have expected Roy to do more with his roster
2nd Memphis...We have a bunch of upperclassmen and started the year poorly
3rd UK...They have a bunch of Freshmen that were nowhere near as highly rated as in years past.

(01-11-2013 08:42 AM)ZachMan Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

This is the part I have to disagree with. We were at the top when Cal left, everything in place, so why do we have to settle and go back becasue we did that years ago. It is too hard to build your name up in today's world with all the media scrutiny to just let it die and go back to being an average program. Boise State's history tells them they used to never be anyting in football so someday they should expect to just go backt o being an unknown...this is called settling and I as a paying TSF member do not to want to settle.

I completely agree. Cal left the program in incredible shape, stocked with players, with no sanctions and no looming sanctions. Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self and Rick Pitino all wanted the job; but we decided to settle and not hire any of them.

What a stupid move on our part, settling like that.

(01-10-2013 11:53 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  It's year four of the Pastner era at Memphis. It's time to start winning some NCAA tournament games. I think this is the year that he gets over the hump.

Just for the record:

By the end of year four as Memphis men's basketball head coach

Gene Bartow
-Had won three NCAA tournament games

Wayne Yates
-Had won zero NCAA tournament games

Dana Kirk
-Had won two NCAA tournament games

Larry Finch
-Had won one NCAA tournament game (first year team that won the Metro tournament and finished 26-8 was not eligible for NCAA tournament)

John Calipari
-Had won one NCAA tournament game

Didn't you know that folks around here don't accept facts?

(01-11-2013 09:51 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 07:26 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 07:11 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  It's time to either put up or shut up. I still have hope we can start pushing ourselves each and every game. We have had some good leads only to squander them. Had we played like we cared where do you a see a lose right now? Against VCU we played like it didn't matter, we should have beat Minnesota but we didn't defend well or act like we cared, Louisville ourscred us by 24 from the damn freethrow line. We were 15 points better then them from the floor.
We have got to close out games, we have got to put forth max effort, and we have got to stay motivated day in and day out. I can accept a lose. But I will not except our players not F'ing trying or acting like they don't give a ****. That's what pisses me off. the players lack of intensity.

I think thats a crock.

To say the team played like they didn't give a damn is just total BS. There in no shame in losing to a final 4 team like UL or even giving up a big lead WAY early in the game. UL is one of the 3 best teams in the nation and they are that good. No shame in the other 2 losses either. We are not on some other level than the teams we lost to and its foolish to suggest we are or should be. We lost to 3 very good teams. Could we have won 2 of them? Absolutely. Were we not playing our best BB? Not even close. But for God's sake it was NOVEMBER. ITs NOT the end of the season and its NOT the last word on what this team is going to accomplish or become.

Just saying "I expect more" does not make you a better or smarter fan. We ALL wanted to win those (including the players) and were all disappointed to lose them.

You are not in a unique position to think we could have played better or being disappointed. We ALL were.

Look I'm not here to get into a back and forth pissing match. I didn't mention anything about not playing hard against Louisville. I gave the reason why we lost that game. But we sure as hell didn't play inspired basketball against VCU or Minnesota and to say otherwise is a f'ing croc. VCU players themselves in their little huddle said "They don't want it". Loud on National TV.

I don't care if it's November, Dec, March, whatever. We don't have Freshmen or Sophomores anymore. We have Juniors, Seniors, and the newcomers we have are all pretty damn good. Our problem is intensity. When your opponent gets 10 open threes a gam its a damn problem, when your opponents guards drive the lane and score at will it's a problem, when you don't rotate/switch like you have done it atleast once before it's a problem, when you take not just 1 but 10 horrible shots a game and waste possessions it's a problem. I could go on and on for the VCU and Minnesota losses.

As far as your Louisville comment we all know why we lost that game and it wasn't because our boys didn't leave it all on the court. As I said and I know you read it because you took the time to highlight it. We beat them by 15 points on the floor. The Freethrows and bull**** saved that final four top 3-4 team from getting their asses handed to them.

For the last 3 years I have been defending this team. But this is the 4th year after Cal. It's time to do something. Like I said Im not giving up hope and I have faith Josh can get them ready come Tourney time.

But in my opinion and it's been pretty decent on here most of the time.
We need to work on a few things and we can see what this team is truly about.

Intensity, Heart, Will to win.

There is a difference in wanting to win the game and doing everything possible to actually win the game. Giving ECU a 22-0 run was pathetic. Play hard for 40 minutes, not 15-20.

Nothing against anyone personally. Not gonna call out specific players and I think Josh is a good coach/great recruiter who is still developing but getting better every season. I love Josh as our coach. I just don't know why we don't play hard for 40 minutes every game.

We are not a young team and like I said I can take the losses. I just want to see the team play hard for 40 minutes every game. If we lose we lose but atleast we played like we wanted to dominate and not just slide by.

While I don't agree with everything you've said, I think you are absolutely right on the money with your overall theme that we don't show the heart and we don't put in the effort for a full 40 minutes. This is the reason we are where we are.

(01-10-2013 10:42 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  OK, our Tigers are 11-3 following our victory over ECU. I am pretty happy with where we are right now, considering the season as a whole, and considering how some of the "big names" in college basketball are doing right now. Here are some comparisons for you.

Memphis 11-3 (not ranked in either poll)
Coach: Josh Pastner - 4th year as a head coach
recent National Championships - none

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
VCU (24,26)
Minnesota (8,10)
Louisville (3,4)

Kentucky 10-4 (out of top 25, 28 and 32 in others receiving votes)
Coach: John Calapari
recent National Championships - 2012

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Duke (1,1)
Notre Dame (16,17)
Baylor (NR)
Louisville (3,4)

North Carolina 9-4 (not ranked in either poll)
Coach: Roy Williams

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Butler (14,17)
Indiana (5,5)
Texas (NR)
Virginia (NR)
Miami (NR)

So, our 3 losses are all to ranked teams. Both KY and NC have lost to unranked teams on their home court. This has happened despite these facts: their programs are "national powers", their coaches are "established" , and their programs have each won national championships within the last 4 years.

I have to say that fans of KY and NC have much more right to be upset about their team's current status than we do.

I would like ask that you review these facts and rethink some of the griping that we see on this board.

I just think it's amazing that UNC is 9-4 with 5 losses. That's coaching right there!

To those it applies to...

We all have high expectations and want the kids to play their best every game.

Chill.

(01-11-2013 02:03 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 01:43 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:47 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  After watching UNC tank against Miami and UK squandering a lead to an awful Vandy team and almost lose(even though they got the benefit of a blown call on the winning basket), Memphis fans should take heart.

UNC looks a lot like us 2 seasons ago. They have young talent and on paper they aren't small, but they look really small on the court. They also haven't figured out how to play basketball yet.

Very true. After getting the program bulldozed by our former coach, it has been a rebuilding job, in my opinion. Just takes time.

Good lord. Can Obama still blame Bush?

It is basketball, Cal nuked the entire KY team after the 09-10 season and went to the FF. Basically nuked the entire team that year and won the national title. Nuked that team and they are 10-4.

(01-11-2013 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 02:03 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 01:43 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:47 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  After watching UNC tank against Miami and UK squandering a lead to an awful Vandy team and almost lose(even though they got the benefit of a blown call on the winning basket), Memphis fans should take heart.

UNC looks a lot like us 2 seasons ago. They have young talent and on paper they aren't small, but they look really small on the court. They also haven't figured out how to play basketball yet.

Very true. After getting the program bulldozed by our former coach, it has been a rebuilding job, in my opinion. Just takes time.

Good lord.

It is basketball, Cal nuked the entire KY team after the 09-10 season and went to the FF. Basically nuked the entire team that year and won the national title. Nuked that team and they are 10-4.

How come KY fans don't complain every year about the team getting nuked?

We use that one alot around here.

(01-11-2013 11:49 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 02:03 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 01:43 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:47 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  After watching UNC tank against Miami and UK squandering a lead to an awful Vandy team and almost lose(even though they got the benefit of a blown call on the winning basket), Memphis fans should take heart.

UNC looks a lot like us 2 seasons ago. They have young talent and on paper they aren't small, but they look really small on the court. They also haven't figured out how to play basketball yet.

Very true. After getting the program bulldozed by our former coach, it has been a rebuilding job, in my opinion. Just takes time.

Good lord.

It is basketball, Cal nuked the entire KY team after the 09-10 season and went to the FF. Basically nuked the entire team that year and won the national title. Nuked that team and they are 10-4.

How come KY fans don't complain every year about the team getting nuked?

We use that one alot around here.

Every UK fan I know is crying about getting "nuked" this year.

(01-11-2013 11:49 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 02:03 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 01:43 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:47 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  After watching UNC tank against Miami and UK squandering a lead to an awful Vandy team and almost lose(even though they got the benefit of a blown call on the winning basket), Memphis fans should take heart.

UNC looks a lot like us 2 seasons ago. They have young talent and on paper they aren't small, but they look really small on the court. They also haven't figured out how to play basketball yet.

Very true. After getting the program bulldozed by our former coach, it has been a rebuilding job, in my opinion. Just takes time.

Good lord.

It is basketball, Cal nuked the entire KY team after the 09-10 season and went to the FF. Basically nuked the entire team that year and won the national title. Nuked that team and they are 10-4.

How come KY fans don't complain every year about the team getting nuked?

We use that one alot around here.

Nuking would be All your players leaving and only having 3 months to recruit an entire roster...But 4 years later...I more than enough time to recover

(01-11-2013 08:49 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:49 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 02:03 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 01:43 AM)Stammers Wrote:  UNC looks a lot like us 2 seasons ago. They have young talent and on paper they aren't small, but they look really small on the court. They also haven't figured out how to play basketball yet.

Very true. After getting the program bulldozed by our former coach, it has been a rebuilding job, in my opinion. Just takes time.

Good lord.

It is basketball, Cal nuked the entire KY team after the 09-10 season and went to the FF. Basically nuked the entire team that year and won the national title. Nuked that team and they are 10-4.

How come KY fans don't complain every year about the team getting nuked?

We use that one alot around here.

Nuking would be All your players leaving and only having 3 months to recruit an entire roster...But 4 years later...I more than enough time to recover

I don't think we have anything to whine about this year. We are a very talented and deep team and I think we are set for a nice March run.

Too bad we didn't make more noise at Atlantis, but March is what matters. I like our chances no matter what our seed is.

I'll be more shocked/disappointed than any other time in the last 10-15 years if we don't make the sweet 16.

(01-11-2013 09:03 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:49 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:49 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 02:03 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  Very true. After getting the program bulldozed by our former coach, it has been a rebuilding job, in my opinion. Just takes time.

Good lord.

It is basketball, Cal nuked the entire KY team after the 09-10 season and went to the FF. Basically nuked the entire team that year and won the national title. Nuked that team and they are 10-4.

How come KY fans don't complain every year about the team getting nuked?

We use that one alot around here.

Nuking would be All your players leaving and only having 3 months to recruit an entire roster...But 4 years later...I more than enough time to recover

I don't think we have anything to whine about this year. We are a very talented and deep team and I think we are set for a nice March run.

Too bad we didn't make more noise at Atlantis, but March is what matters. I like our chances no matter what our seed is.

I'll be more shocked/disappointed than any other time in the last 10-15 years if we don't make the sweet 16.

Wow.

+3

(01-11-2013 09:23 PM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 09:03 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 08:49 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:49 AM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 11:46 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Good lord.

It is basketball, Cal nuked the entire KY team after the 09-10 season and went to the FF. Basically nuked the entire team that year and won the national title. Nuked that team and they are 10-4.

How come KY fans don't complain every year about the team getting nuked?

We use that one alot around here.

Nuking would be All your players leaving and only having 3 months to recruit an entire roster...But 4 years later...I more than enough time to recover

I don't think we have anything to whine about this year. We are a very talented and deep team and I think we are set for a nice March run.

Too bad we didn't make more noise at Atlantis, but March is what matters. I like our chances no matter what our seed is.

I'll be more shocked/disappointed than any other time in the last 10-15 years if we don't make the sweet 16.

Wow.

+3

agreed.

+2 (My max still) lol