(01-11-2013 12:02 AM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:58 PM)ballen Wrote:  So pre-season polls should dictate the expectations on how fans perceive where their team should be?

Preseason ranking for 2012/13:

Kentucky 3
Duke 8
North Carolina 11
Memphis 17

To say that the other teams are having "off years" is obvious - after the losses they have incurred, but not based on pre-season polls (expectations).

Should pre-season polls set the bar for fan satisfaction?

Preseason polls are borderline worthless. I think we all feel we have a very talented team and most thought they could win a game or two against quality opponents. I think that is where the disappointment comes from. The Bahamas and the collapse against Louise was a double sucker punch to many Tiger fans expecting great things from this team. I am holding out hope that this team continues to improve, continues to win these games against crappy teams and by March they are ready to finally prove themselves against good teams in the Dance.

Agreed - the losses have been disappointing but it's not too late to give up hope!

(01-11-2013 12:12 AM)ballen Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 12:02 AM)JMSTiger Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:58 PM)ballen Wrote:  So pre-season polls should dictate the expectations on how fans perceive where their team should be?

Preseason ranking for 2012/13:

Kentucky 3
Duke 8
North Carolina 11
Memphis 17

To say that the other teams are having "off years" is obvious - after the losses they have incurred, but not based on pre-season polls (expectations).

Should pre-season polls set the bar for fan satisfaction?

Preseason polls are borderline worthless. I think we all feel we have a very talented team and most thought they could win a game or two against quality opponents. I think that is where the disappointment comes from. The Bahamas and the collapse against Louise was a double sucker punch to many Tiger fans expecting great things from this team. I am holding out hope that this team continues to improve, continues to win these games against crappy teams and by March they are ready to finally prove themselves against good teams in the Dance.

Agreed - the losses have been disappointing but it's not too late to give up hope!

Keep hope alive!

(01-10-2013 11:53 PM)BandwagonJumper Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:41 PM)tigergg Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:36 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  Roy Williams has taken North Carolina to 3 final fours including a National Championship, and had them in the Elite Eight the past two years.

Under Calipari, Kentucky has an Elite Eight, a Final Four, and won a National Championship last year.

Memphis is in its third straight year of starting the year ranked only to fall out of the polls. We finished 4th in CUSA in 2011 and had to get on a hot streak in the conference tournament to get into he NCAAs. We haven't won a tournament game during Pastner's tenure.

In short, North Carolina and Kentucky are having off years. Memphis's season has to this point looked very similar to the last two seasons.

^^^YEP

^^^DOUBLEYEP

Rinse, repeat.

JP takes Memphis to an EE and and a NC game back to back and I'll give him and a 10-5 start.

Called earning it.

I know I still have high hopes and I know we have a very taleted team coming into its own.

I'm pretty stoked about the rest of the season and the NCAA's.

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

Even if we were to win the NC by a 10 point margin, some on this forum would say we blew it because we should have won by 25.

(01-10-2013 11:47 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  After watching UNC tank against Miami and UK squandering a lead to an awful Vandy team and almost lose(even though they got the benefit of a blown call on the winning basket), Memphis fans should take heart.

UNC looks a lot like us 2 seasons ago. They have young talent and on paper they aren't small, but they look really small on the court. They also haven't figured out how to play basketball yet.

(01-11-2013 01:43 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:47 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  After watching UNC tank against Miami and UK squandering a lead to an awful Vandy team and almost lose(even though they got the benefit of a blown call on the winning basket), Memphis fans should take heart.

UNC looks a lot like us 2 seasons ago. They have young talent and on paper they aren't small, but they look really small on the court. They also haven't figured out how to play basketball yet.

Very true. After getting the program bulldozed by our former coach, it has been a rebuilding job, in my opinion. Just takes time.

I was surprised how slow and lethargic Vandy looked. I sure do like the brand of ball we play; it's much more exciting. It seemed the kind of fast ball that Oregon played tonight.

(01-10-2013 11:41 PM)tigergg Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:36 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  Roy Williams has taken North Carolina to 3 final fours including a National Championship, and had them in the Elite Eight the past two years.

Under Calipari, Kentucky has an Elite Eight, a Final Four, and won a National Championship last year.

Memphis is in its third straight year of starting the year ranked only to fall out of the polls. We finished 4th in CUSA in 2011 and had to get on a hot streak in the conference tournament to get into he NCAAs. We haven't won a tournament game during Pastner's tenure.

In short, North Carolina and Kentucky are having off years. Memphis's season has to this point looked very similar to the last two seasons.

^^^YEP

I think it's all relative. Even tho we had a very nice recruiting class with JJ et al, our recruting AND current roster are (read:should be) nowhere near as strong as NC and KY.
Look at McD AA's and 5* recruits. As many as we have, it pales to those 2 programs.
So, let's get real here.
If things pan out the way they look to now, we can start talking an elite group next year. It doesn't look like anyone can leave early-RIGHT NOW.
The only prob with next year is there will be several teams with deep, deep rosters for the same reason.
Ky., Duke will be very deep regardless, and NC.
Also, Fla.
All these teams (and several others) will make NEXT season one of the most entertaining in years, with possibly Ky. standing as King of the hill(depth wise)

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

So we should have to settle for being good 2-3 years out of 17 and average the rest of the time? Cal more then got us to Elite Status. 33-4, 33-4, 38-2, 33-4. Elite 8, Elite 8, National title game, Sweet 16. If he hadn't left we might have 2 by now. I don't wanna hear Cal couldn't do it because he sure as hell did.

Sorry I love the Tigers but I expect better. Im not putting it all on Josh either. Our current roster doesn't seem to have enough "heart" or "will" to win in them. Down 7 @ UAB a minute to go and we still won. That's called heart and having the will to win. I just wanna see more of it. You may be surprised how good this team can actually be by playing the game smarter and actually playing like they wanna win/blow everyone out each day we have a game.

Sorry JMS but I do have high expectations. The so Called "Blue Bloods" don't out recruit us. We have just as much talent or more then almost everyone in college basketball and we will only improve that next season. The ability to get that talent to mesh and actually care about the name on the front of the jersey is the staffs job. Keeping the players level headed and motivated is the staffs job. No one gives a **** about C-USA titles. An article came out a few years ago and Memphis was rated one of the top 6 teams/programs of the decade.

It's time to either put up or shut up. I still have hope we can start pushing ourselves each and every game. We have had some good leads only to squander them. Had we played like we cared where do you a see a lose right now? Against VCU we played like it didn't matter, we should have beat Minnesota but we didn't defend well or act like we cared, Louisville ourscred us by 24 from the damn freethrow line. We were 15 points better then them from the floor.

We have got to close out games, we have got to put forth max effort, and we have got to stay motivated day in and day out. I can accept a lose. But I will not except our players not F'ing trying or acting like they don't give a ****. That's what pisses me off. the players lack of intensity.

(01-11-2013 06:56 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

So we should have to settle for being good 2-3 years out of 17 and average the rest of the time? Cal more then got us to Elite Status. 33-4, 33-4, 38-2, 33-4. Elite 8, Elite 8, National title game, Sweet 16. If he hadn't left we might have 2 by now. I don't wanna hear Cal couldn't do it because he sure as hell did.

Sorry I love the Tigers but I expect better. Im not putting it all on Josh either. Our current roster doesn't seem to have enough "heart" or "will" to win in them. Down 7 @ UAB a minute to go and we still won. That's called heart and having the will to win. I just wanna see more of it. You may be surprised how good this team can actually be by playing the game smarter and actually playing like they wanna win/blow everyone out each day we have a game.

Thats not really what he was saying. I think you know that.

(01-11-2013 07:17 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 06:56 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

So we should have to settle for being good 2-3 years out of 17 and average the rest of the time? Cal more then got us to Elite Status. 33-4, 33-4, 38-2, 33-4. Elite 8, Elite 8, National title game, Sweet 16. If he hadn't left we might have 2 by now. I don't wanna hear Cal couldn't do it because he sure as hell did.

Sorry I love the Tigers but I expect better. Im not putting it all on Josh either. Our current roster doesn't seem to have enough "heart" or "will" to win in them. Down 7 @ UAB a minute to go and we still won. That's called heart and having the will to win. I just wanna see more of it. You may be surprised how good this team can actually be by playing the game smarter and actually playing like they wanna win/blow everyone out each day we have a game.

Thats not really what he was saying. I think you know that.

I know what he meant. But he killed it by saying "Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician." Yes I do expect to be at there level. What's stopping us??? We have the recruiting classes, we have the talent, we have the facilities, we have the fans, we have the support. Now all we have to do is get the players to care and coach. Why does this goal seem so impossible?

Also like I said Cal had us at Elite Status and had he stayed we would have maybe won 2 titles by now. Not saying 100% but we would have had a better chance then even Carolina, Duke and NC. I know Cal isn't here and isn't walking through that door. i'm not saying that. I'm just trying to prove that it CAN be done here.

I don't care what all those other programs have done. What I do care about is the fact that we have just as good a chance TODAY to achieve Elite Status. We need to get our act together.

(01-11-2013 07:11 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  It's time to either put up or shut up. I still have hope we can start pushing ourselves each and every game. We have had some good leads only to squander them. Had we played like we cared where do you a see a lose right now? Against VCU we played like it didn't matter, we should have beat Minnesota but we didn't defend well or act like we cared, Louisville ourscred us by 24 from the damn freethrow line. We were 15 points better then them from the floor.
We have got to close out games, we have got to put forth max effort, and we have got to stay motivated day in and day out. I can accept a lose. But I will not except our players not F'ing trying or acting like they don't give a ****. That's what pisses me off. the players lack of intensity.

I think thats a crock.

To say the team played like they didn't give a damn is just total BS. There in no shame in losing to a final 4 team like UL or even giving up a big lead WAY early in the game. UL is one of the 3 best teams in the nation and they are that good. No shame in the other 2 losses either. We are not on some other level than the teams we lost to and its foolish to suggest we are or should be. We lost to 3 very good teams. Could we have won 2 of them? Absolutely. Were we not playing our best BB? Not even close. But for God's sake it was NOVEMBER. ITs NOT the end of the season and its NOT the last word on what this team is going to accomplish or become.

Just saying "I expect more" does not make you a better or smarter fan. We ALL wanted to win those (including the players) and were all disappointed to lose them.

You are not in a unique position to think we could have played better or being disappointed. We ALL were.

Try " hey we win Saturday we got to 12-3, 2-0 in CUSA"

Cliff Notes: 1/11/2013

The constant frustration of bagging what was in the past < note: Can't be changed> OR what could be <note :Can't be predicted>is redundantly redundant in virtually every thread.

And : Coach Yadas did this in x period ... that can be Googled

Finally, the new miserable way is to write long rambling paragraphs instead of snappy one liners and end with
"sorry for the rant.... or "I'm a little po'd Funny sh*t

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

This is the part I have to disagree with. We were at the top when Cal left, everything in place, so why do we have to settle and go back becasue we did that years ago. It is too hard to build your name up in today's world with all the media scrutiny to just let it die and go back to being an average program. Boise State's history tells them they used to never be anyting in football so someday they should expect to just go backt o being an unknown...this is called settling and I as a paying TSF member do not to want to settle.

(01-10-2013 11:36 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  Roy Williams has taken North Carolina to 3 final fours including a National Championship, and had them in the Elite Eight the past two years.

Under Calipari, Kentucky has an Elite Eight, a Final Four, and won a National Championship last year.

Memphis is in its third straight year of starting the year ranked only to fall out of the polls. We finished 4th in CUSA in 2011 and had to get on a hot streak in the conference tournament to get into he NCAAs. We haven't won a tournament game during Pastner's tenure.

In short, North Carolina and Kentucky are having off years. Memphis's season has to this point looked very similar to the last two seasons.

::drops mic::

(01-11-2013 12:10 AM)ballen Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 12:00 AM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  I think UK will make a nice run in March, similar to that of Brandon Knight and company a few years back. Time for Josh to make his.

I hope that Josh will have the team ready in March, but no way am I compelled to issue an ultimatum at this point, as many seem to be.

Every one of these programs has been stocked full of the country's best recruits, year after year. Because of our weak conference schedule, we were forced to front-load our OOC schedule with our toughest opponents. It didn't work out the way we wanted it to, but the experience from those losses has helped the team grow tougher and stronger.

Now is the time to support our coach, through the end of the season. What is the good of all this whining and gnashing of teeth now? It's getting tiresome.

Outstanding post!

(01-10-2013 11:34 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:01 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  The negativity it too high here for were we are right now.

I don't know. I don't really see a ton of negativity (it IS there, but still).

I see a fan base that wants what is best for the program and is wondering if our current trajectory will keep us among the elite of college basketball.

Healthy discussion of pros and cons is what makes this (and any) community message board run. We're going to have some 'miserables' and 'sunshine pumpers' and that is good. But really it's just gotta be constructive, informative and fun.

Carry on

Well said.

Seems our board is more enjoyable without so much acrimony among fellow fans

I look forward to when we can be one of the perennial top teams, just not in contrived comparisons from 2 months of one season.

Fans are not all the same, and not all fans are inspired by fool's gold.

(01-11-2013 07:26 AM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-11-2013 07:11 AM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  It's time to either put up or shut up. I still have hope we can start pushing ourselves each and every game. We have had some good leads only to squander them. Had we played like we cared where do you a see a lose right now? Against VCU we played like it didn't matter, we should have beat Minnesota but we didn't defend well or act like we cared, Louisville ourscred us by 24 from the damn freethrow line. We were 15 points better then them from the floor.
We have got to close out games, we have got to put forth max effort, and we have got to stay motivated day in and day out. I can accept a lose. But I will not except our players not F'ing trying or acting like they don't give a ****. That's what pisses me off. the players lack of intensity.

I think thats a crock.

To say the team played like they didn't give a damn is just total BS. There in no shame in losing to a final 4 team like UL or even giving up a big lead WAY early in the game. UL is one of the 3 best teams in the nation and they are that good. No shame in the other 2 losses either. We are not on some other level than the teams we lost to and its foolish to suggest we are or should be. We lost to 3 very good teams. Could we have won 2 of them? Absolutely. Were we not playing our best BB? Not even close. But for God's sake it was NOVEMBER. ITs NOT the end of the season and its NOT the last word on what this team is going to accomplish or become.

Just saying "I expect more" does not make you a better or smarter fan. We ALL wanted to win those (including the players) and were all disappointed to lose them.

You are not in a unique position to think we could have played better or being disappointed. We ALL were.

Look I'm not here to get into a back and forth pissing match. I didn't mention anything about not playing hard against Louisville. I gave the reason why we lost that game. But we sure as hell didn't play inspired basketball against VCU or Minnesota and to say otherwise is a f'ing croc. VCU players themselves in their little huddle said "They don't want it". Loud on National TV.

I don't care if it's November, Dec, March, whatever. We don't have Freshmen or Sophomores anymore. We have Juniors, Seniors, and the newcomers we have are all pretty damn good. Our problem is intensity. When your opponent gets 10 open threes a gam its a damn problem, when your opponents guards drive the lane and score at will it's a problem, when you don't rotate/switch like you have done it atleast once before it's a problem, when you take not just 1 but 10 horrible shots a game and waste possessions it's a problem. I could go on and on for the VCU and Minnesota losses.

As far as your Louisville comment we all know why we lost that game and it wasn't because our boys didn't leave it all on the court. As I said and I know you read it because you took the time to highlight it. We beat them by 15 points on the floor. The Freethrows and bull**** saved that final four top 3-4 team from getting their asses handed to them.

For the last 3 years I have been defending this team. But this is the 4th year after Cal. It's time to do something. Like I said Im not giving up hope and I have faith Josh can get them ready come Tourney time.

But in my opinion and it's been pretty decent on here most of the time.
We need to work on a few things and we can see what this team is truly about.

Intensity, Heart, Will to win.

There is a difference in wanting to win the game and doing everything possible to actually win the game. Giving ECU a 22-0 run was pathetic. Play hard for 40 minutes, not 15-20.

Nothing against anyone personally. Not gonna call out specific players and I think Josh is a good coach/great recruiter who is still developing but getting better every season. I love Josh as our coach. I just don't know why we don't play hard for 40 minutes every game.

We are not a young team and like I said I can take the losses. I just want to see the team play hard for 40 minutes every game. If we lose we lose but atleast we played like we wanted to dominate and not just slide by.