You're also using the most egregious example possible.

(11-13-2012 03:29 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 02:57 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 02:00 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 01:56 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  No.. it definitely does.

You can make some pretty good assumptions based on the data you have there. With that many people, it makes a pretty strong case that those who are educated are more likely to vote for Obama.

It's not saying all college graduates vote for Obama. It is most certainly implying though, that those who are educated, were probably more likely to vote for Obama.

You would need to provide some pretty strong evidence to the contrary to make a legitimate argument that he's wrong.

The argument can be made for Massachussets.. But I don't think it's a clear definition of the entire percentage.

It's like saying that Jim loves fried chicken. Jim is of Asian decent. Therefore anyone of Asian decent loves fried chicken.

Soo.. math and logic not your strong suit I take it..

*Sigh* Math and Logic are strong suits of mine.. We cannot simply say that all college graduates are: 1. Smart 2. Voted Democrat.

If you don't believe number 1, I know a fella.. If you don't believe number 2, I know another fella.

But your logic is flawed.

I will admit there are college graduates that voted Obama. My fiancee being one.

But Max blew this all out of porportion with my one comment.. I should've led with the comment I had, but it's all in the past.

Without knowing all the numbers you cannot simply derieve that a higher percentage of college grads are democrat or voted democrat. While in places like Massachussets it may hold true since they obviously love them some BHO, I believe in other places it may not hold as true.

You're clearly not.

My logic is not flawed, you just can't read. Which would explain a lot.

I never said anything about ALL College graduates being smart or voting for Obama.

What the data implies is that college graduates in general are more likely to vote for Obama. College graduates are also more likely to be more intelligent than non-college graduates.

MORE being the key word in these sentences, not all. With the evidence we have, these conclusions are not flawed. Now stop it, you're embarrassing yourself.

You're f'n kidding me right. I can't read, hey slap nuts, this started out with a quip between Max and I. Go back and read and you'll understand where this all came from instead of jumping in to help your liberal friend.

Now back to the argument at hand:

Going by Max's gif he posted, it only tells you that the population of people over the age of 25 with a college degree makes up 39.1% of Mass. Now with the county break down of Mass., it's safe to assume that most of the 39% voted democrat. However, in other places you cannot simply rule that as the norm due to fact that other states had a ton of red counties and you cannot simply account that those votes, while in a state that went for Obama, were in the majority of voting for Obama. See my chicken analogy.

But whatever helps you sleep better at night.
Or you just proved my theory.

It's an example that backs up his claim that it's who you know...

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:39 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:34 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 01:52 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 12:44 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Yep, "Dumbya" went to Yale and Harvard.

Not that I honestly believe that Bush, for all his faults and poor decision-making, is "dumb." But if his opponents are going to label a multiple degreed Ivy League grad as an awful political leader, then the whole "more educated = better equipped to govern" rings hollow.

Depends on how you get into the school, and how well you do when you get there. Just going to a good school doesn't mean you're intelligent. There's circumstances surrounding every situation, and we all know W's.

Yep. getting into Ivy league schools is just as much, if not more, who you know versus what you know. Have a cousin at Harvard Business School. Told me her prof told her getting in was the hardest part so as long as she doesn't screw up graduating won't be all that difficult.

No, it's not. Knowing someone can help, sure, but you've still got to have an absurdly high GPA/SAT/ACT for that to even matter. No ones getting into Harvard with a 3.0 GPA and scoring in the 90th percentile in the SAT.

Believe what you will but I'm guessing a Kennedy with a sub 3.0 would still get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.

I agree with you on that - not just a Kennedy - but any comparable wealthy person with connections.

(11-13-2012 03:50 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:39 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:34 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 01:52 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Depends on how you get into the school, and how well you do when you get there. Just going to a good school doesn't mean you're intelligent. There's circumstances surrounding every situation, and we all know W's.

Yep. getting into Ivy league schools is just as much, if not more, who you know versus what you know. Have a cousin at Harvard Business School. Told me her prof told her getting in was the hardest part so as long as she doesn't screw up graduating won't be all that difficult.

No, it's not. Knowing someone can help, sure, but you've still got to have an absurdly high GPA/SAT/ACT for that to even matter. No ones getting into Harvard with a 3.0 GPA and scoring in the 90th percentile in the SAT.

Believe what you will but I'm guessing a Kennedy with a sub 3.0 would still get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.

I agree with you on that - not just a Kennedy - but any comparable wealthy person with connections.

Based on what?

(11-13-2012 04:00 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:50 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:39 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:34 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Yep. getting into Ivy league schools is just as much, if not more, who you know versus what you know. Have a cousin at Harvard Business School. Told me her prof told her getting in was the hardest part so as long as she doesn't screw up graduating won't be all that difficult.

No, it's not. Knowing someone can help, sure, but you've still got to have an absurdly high GPA/SAT/ACT for that to even matter. No ones getting into Harvard with a 3.0 GPA and scoring in the 90th percentile in the SAT.

Believe what you will but I'm guessing a Kennedy with a sub 3.0 would still get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.

I agree with you on that - not just a Kennedy - but any comparable wealthy person with connections.

Based on what?

Common sense and possible large donations.

(11-13-2012 04:01 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:00 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:50 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:39 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  No, it's not. Knowing someone can help, sure, but you've still got to have an absurdly high GPA/SAT/ACT for that to even matter. No ones getting into Harvard with a 3.0 GPA and scoring in the 90th percentile in the SAT.

Believe what you will but I'm guessing a Kennedy with a sub 3.0 would still get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.

I agree with you on that - not just a Kennedy - but any comparable wealthy person with connections.

Based on what?

Common sense and possible large donations.

Common sense is more often wrong than right when used to defend ones beliefs. Show some evidence of this claim or just admit you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2012/08...o-college/

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/colleg...advantage/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...331AAMTzfC

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/19/opinio...?th&emc=th

Quote:Last year, two Princeton sociologists, Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Walton Radford, published a book-length study of admissions and affirmative action at eight highly selective colleges and universities. Unsurprisingly, they found that the admissions process seemed to favor black and Hispanic applicants, while whites and Asians needed higher grades and SAT scores to get in. But what was striking, as Russell K. Nieli pointed out last week on the conservative Web site Minding the Campus, was which whites were most disadvantaged by the process: the downscale, the rural and the working-class.

This was particularly pronounced among the private colleges in the study. For minority applicants, the lower a family’s socioeconomic position, the more likely the student was to be admitted. For whites, though, it was the reverse. An upper-middle-class white applicant was three times more likely to be admitted than a lower-class white with similar qualifications.

Those aren't studies on Ivy League schools, but I'll grant that you have a reason to suspect it given that info. Then again I would imagine that has more to do with the ability to take part in extracurricular activities which set them apart from the poorer students. The same bias occurs in those going into the medical field, those with parents or family friends working in the healthcare industry have a leg up as they can get better experiences and letters of recommendation than, say, a son of a coal miner. It's not so much that they favor them, it's that their applications look better as a result.

(11-13-2012 04:01 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:00 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:50 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:39 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  No, it's not. Knowing someone can help, sure, but you've still got to have an absurdly high GPA/SAT/ACT for that to even matter. No ones getting into Harvard with a 3.0 GPA and scoring in the 90th percentile in the SAT.

Believe what you will but I'm guessing a Kennedy with a sub 3.0 would still get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.

I agree with you on that - not just a Kennedy - but any comparable wealthy person with connections.

Based on what?

Common sense and possible large donations.

I am a realist. If someone is giving a school a million a year and they want someone admitted who may not quite meet the standards, my guess is that they will be admitted. It is often who you know. They probably also have made personal connections with much of the schools administration and it is hard to tell a friend "no". Adding a couple of these students will not impact the stats.

I admit that I do not have stats or proof. I do know personally of a case where someone went through a politician to get someone accepted at a school where they had been rejected.

And I also know of a case where a relative of mine was denied a college, the same college a grandfather of hers founded a popular fraternity at, the entire family had gone too and been big boosters at, and who had a floor at their hospital dedicated to them for their donations. And she wasn't an awful applicant either, and this wasn't anywhere near an Ivy League school

I'll grant you that it can be a tipping point or give you a little bit of a boost, sure, but I find it hard to believe that a mediocre student is getting into Harvard due to their connections.

(11-13-2012 05:44 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  And I also know of a case where a relative of mine was denied a college, the same college a grandfather of hers founded a popular fraternity at, the entire family had gone too and been big boosters at, and who had a floor at their hospital dedicated to them for their donations. And she wasn't an awful applicant either, and this wasn't anywhere near an Ivy League school

I'll grant you that it can be a tipping point or give you a little bit of a boost, sure, but I find it hard to believe that a mediocre student is getting into Harvard due to their connections.

I've known those who have.

(11-13-2012 06:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 05:44 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  And I also know of a case where a relative of mine was denied a college, the same college a grandfather of hers founded a popular fraternity at, the entire family had gone too and been big boosters at, and who had a floor at their hospital dedicated to them for their donations. And she wasn't an awful applicant either, and this wasn't anywhere near an Ivy League school

I'll grant you that it can be a tipping point or give you a little bit of a boost, sure, but I find it hard to believe that a mediocre student is getting into Harvard due to their connections.

I've known those who have.

That got into Harvard as a mediocre student? Mediocre for Harvard admissions or mediocre as a part of the overall student body that year?

(11-13-2012 04:04 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:01 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:00 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:50 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 03:41 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Believe what you will but I'm guessing a Kennedy with a sub 3.0 would still get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc.

I agree with you on that - not just a Kennedy - but any comparable wealthy person with connections.

Based on what?

Common sense and possible large donations.

Common sense is more often wrong than right when used to defend ones beliefs. Show some evidence of this claim or just admit you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Call my cynical, but I think a 19-year-old with a President's last name or of some other nationally recognized big-wig (i.e., Gates, etc.) is going to get nudged to the top of the applicant heap, with ACT/SAT/GPAs not as crucial as that of a smart Joe Schmo. That 'name' on your campus goes a long way for a university's brand.

I'll submit I don't have cold hard stats or anectodal evidence to back this up, so I'm just hypothesizing.

I think you'd absolutely get extra consideration, but I don't buy the claim that you'd get in as an overall mediocre student. You'd still have to be a somewhat exceptional student (not necessarily that hard).