(11-12-2012 08:34 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  HAMBONE........... Not you too.

Quote:Why is it more believable that he made "THE CALL" on Bin Laden.

Well let's see here. One was planned at a time of our choosing and the other was an attack you "didn't" plan for.


G Damn it guys............. I just don't get this and I don't think I'm being blinded by partisanship. I pride myself in trying to see an argument from the other side. I'm trying to look at this......... I really am, but it just seems so dam hypocritcal to me.

Explain this

22 January 2002 Calcutta Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami gunmen attack Consulate, 5 DEAD

14 June 2002 Karachi al-Qaeda truck bomb detonates outside Consulate, 12 DEAD

12 October 2002 Denpasar Consular Office bombed by Jemaah Islamiyah as part of the Bali bombings, (Thankfully)0 DEAD

28 February 2003 Islamabad Unknown gunmen attack Embassy 2 DEAD

30 June 2004 Tashkent Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan suicide bomber attacks Embassy, 2 DEAD

6 December 2004 Jeddah al-Qaeda gunmen raid diplomatic compound, 9 DEAD

2 March 2006 Karachi Car bomb explodes outside Embassy Assailants unknown, 2 DEAD

12 September 2006 Damascus Gunmen raid US Embassy 4 DEAD

12 January 2007 Athens RPG Fired at Embassy by Revolutionary Struggle (again, thankfully ) 0 DEAD
Posted by Ninerfan1 - Today 10:55 AM


WHY DIDN'T WE HEAR YOU GUY"S BITCHING ABOUT ANY OF THESE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Because the right wing media didn't report on them?

(11-12-2012 10:31 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Niner,


I don't know. I would hope that he delegated that call. I know you have heard the term fog of war. I would cut the guy some slack.

And see I don't believe that's a call a CnC could or should delegate. It's his call to make, no one else's.

And Mach there is one striking difference between the list of attacks you posted that happened during the Bush years and Benghazi. No Americans died in any of them, save one in Pakistan in 2006. None of our ambassadors died in any of them. Don't you think that's probably a key difference separating the outrage about Benghazi and the reaction to them?

Were multiple requests made for more security at any of them? Were any of them blamed on something that didn't cause them? No.

(11-12-2012 08:34 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  HAMBONE........... Not you too.

Quote:Why is it more believable that he made "THE CALL" on Bin Laden.

Well let's see here. One was planned at a time of our choosing and the other was an attack you "didn't" plan for.


G Damn it guys............. I just don't get this and I don't think I'm being blinded by partisanship. I pride myself in trying to see an argument from the other side. I'm trying to look at this......... I really am, but it just seems so dam hypocritcal to me.

Explain this

22 January 2002 Calcutta Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami gunmen attack Consulate, 5 DEAD

14 June 2002 Karachi al-Qaeda truck bomb detonates outside Consulate, 12 DEAD

12 October 2002 Denpasar Consular Office bombed by Jemaah Islamiyah as part of the Bali bombings, (Thankfully)0 DEAD

28 February 2003 Islamabad Unknown gunmen attack Embassy 2 DEAD

30 June 2004 Tashkent Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan suicide bomber attacks Embassy, 2 DEAD

6 December 2004 Jeddah al-Qaeda gunmen raid diplomatic compound, 9 DEAD

2 March 2006 Karachi Car bomb explodes outside Embassy Assailants unknown, 2 DEAD

12 September 2006 Damascus Gunmen raid US Embassy 4 DEAD

12 January 2007 Athens RPG Fired at Embassy by Revolutionary Struggle (again, thankfully ) 0 DEAD
Posted by Ninerfan1 - Today 10:55 AM


WHY DIDN'T WE HEAR YOU GUY"S BITCHING ABOUT ANY OF THESE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How many of these were covered up and lied about for two weeks? Coincidentally the guy that made the "video" has been jailed for a year.

I get that attacks occur and not all of them can be stopped but I don't get his attempt to cover it up during an election cycle. That's what pisses me off. If and when this crazy chit happens don't lie to us and blame it on something so ridiculous as a freakin video. It's like saying someone burst a balloon in a crowded theater and the result was a mass shooting. IT THE COVER UP MACH NOT THE ATTACK.

I think the cover up aspects of this incident are very troubling. But hey, that's what you get to do if you have the power, right? If republicans want to complain, let them figure out how to take back the white house and they can do the same thing when they are in power, right? That's how it works, isn't it? Who has the power makes the rules, right?

(11-12-2012 06:46 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-12-2012 10:38 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Bull and Niner................

Do you honestly think Obama made "THE CALL" to abandon people.? Honestly

Why is it more believable that he made "THE CALL" on Bin Laden.

and Honestly, Obama's problem wasn't abandoning Benghazi, it's covering up for the failure in communication.

To the CC issue.... I'm calling BS.

When you check in, they authorize your card for some amount.... usually room, taxes, and some reasonable amount for incidentals. Let's say they authorized $150 for your $99 hotel. Your bill the next day is 149.99. You go to breakfast taking your bill to 170. The computer tries to authorize another 20 and you get a notice. Their authorization number for the $150 is still valid.

The comment that it isn't common doesn't mean it isn't proper. I'm not sure of campaign finance laws, but I suspect you can't charge breakfast the next day after a campaign has ended. I mean, if I flew to NY and quit my job or was fired or the company closed that night, I couldn't go charge breakfast to the company the next day. There are still expenses to be worked out... but the rules are quite different. I don't specifically know, but neither do any of you, unless you're experts in campaign finance law. The idea that they left employees with their bill for hotel rooms is a lie. Anyone knowing anything about checking into a hotel with a credit card knows this.

The cc authorization at a hotel is just to reserve the funds against the credit limit. The actual charge does not go through until you check out. If the card is canceled when you check out, the charge will not go through.

The campaign is a legal organization that continues until it is wound down. The organization does not cease to exist the second a candidate wins or loses. This is true when the election is close, or even when in the case of R&R when center right America gave them a through butt kicking by giving a landslide mandate to Obama.

The following link says it will be around for 2 more years:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/...yland?lite

If a company sends me on business travel, they are responsible for my expenses (as long as they are within corporate policy) and getting me home. If I am fired, or I quite, while on business travel it does not change that. If the company goes bankrupt, then I am not sure.

I said earlier I was skeptical when I first heard this, but it has come from multiple R&R campaign staffers. If it was an oversight, I have not heard where the problem was corrected. R&R were pretty much on every side of every issue – the only 2 consistent principals they had was “Tax Cuts for Millionaires” and “Let them go bankrupt”. I guess he was still able to execute the second one for his staff.

(11-12-2012 08:34 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  HAMBONE........... Not you too.

Quote:Why is it more believable that he made "THE CALL" on Bin Laden.

Well let's see here. One was planned at a time of our choosing and the other was an attack you "didn't" plan for.

so we planned on when we would discover Bin Laden?

Look... I don't know the specific timeframes, but it seems that we had hours actionable on Bin Laden, and hours actionable on Benghazi. We had years on knowing what we would do to Bin Laden, we had decades knowing that an embassy attack was possible. We probably had days suspecting Bin Laden was at this compound and days between the request by the embassy for additional resources. The left bashed Bush for 5 minutes of not scaring the crap out of a bunch of 3rd graders on 9/11

Quote:Damn it guys............. I just don't get this and I don't think I'm being blinded by partisanship. I pride myself in trying to see an argument from the other side. I'm trying to look at this......... I really am, but it just seems so dam hypocritcal to me.

Explain this

22 January 2002 Calcutta Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami gunmen attack Consulate, 5 DEAD

14 June 2002 Karachi al-Qaeda truck bomb detonates outside Consulate, 12 DEAD -

12 October 2002 Denpasar Consular Office bombed by Jemaah Islamiyah as part of the Bali bombings, (Thankfully)0 DEAD

28 February 2003 Islamabad Unknown gunmen attack Embassy 2 DEAD

30 June 2004 Tashkent Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan suicide bomber attacks Embassy, 2 DEAD

6 December 2004 Jeddah al-Qaeda gunmen raid diplomatic compound, 9 DEAD

2 March 2006 Karachi Car bomb explodes outside Embassy Assailants unknown, 2 DEAD

12 September 2006 Damascus Gunmen raid US Embassy 4 DEAD

12 January 2007 Athens RPG Fired at Embassy by Revolutionary Struggle (again, thankfully ) 0 DEAD
Posted by Ninerfan1 - Today 10:55 AM


WHY DIDN'T WE HEAR YOU GUY"S BITCHING ABOUT ANY OF THESE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do you have any evidence that Bush was informed about these possibilities in advance and denied anyone additional security? Additionally, in MOST of those attacks, the people killed were locals on the street and not embassy personnel. While far from absolute successes... you can't blame Bush for the deaths of the suicide bombers in the trucks.

You actually make my point on this for me. Those who tried to blame Ryan and the cutting of some expenses miss entirely that there is little you can do about "building" your way out of an attack. They will plan their attack around whatever you put in place. The key is to decipher intel, and respond when you have actionable data.

Do you have intel that suggests that Bush knew, or should have known about these attacks beforehand and denied security requests? If you do, and it cost American lives, I will complain. If not, you are making the surprising mistake of equating results (deaths) with knowledge... without even insisting on only counting the deaths of US Embassy Personnel

I can't find anything on Calcutta... Karachi was 12 Pakistanis dead, 51 injured... Denpasar nobody died... can't find anything on the next one... the next... two bombings... two locals... One was at the Israeli embassy, but I guess Bush is responsible for them as well... nothing on Jeddah... the next local police and the gunmen themselves were killed... I'm tired of looking now...

maybe PART of the lack of outrage is that Americans weren't killed... that I can tell. Granted, it is hard to search because the first 500 posts are all democratic sites trying to defend Obama... but

a) show me where American EMbassy personell were killed...
b) where there was evidence that we should have been more prepared...

Otherwise, this "list" is a waste of time, though you may not think you are being one.

I looked.

Have you?

(11-13-2012 08:45 AM)dcCid Wrote:  The cc authorization at a hotel is just to reserve the funds against the credit limit. The actual charge does not go through until you check out. If the card is canceled when you check out, the charge will not go through.

This is not true. You have an authorization number, you can present your charge and expect to be paid against that authorization number. If you couldn't, what would the purpose of an authorization be? Look at your card statement. Cancelling a card does not protect you from previously authorized purchases.

Quote:The campaign is a legal organization that continues until it is wound down. The organization does not cease to exist the second a candidate wins or loses.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand

Quote:If a company sends me on business travel, they are responsible for my expenses (as long as they are within corporate policy) and getting me home. If I am fired, or I quite, while on business travel it does not change that. If the company goes bankrupt, then I am not sure.

Again, nothing to do with the topic at hand. The expected charges were authorized at check-in. As to quitting, I'm 100% certain they aren't obligated to fly you home... been there, done that... The issue isn't whether they should pay for the plane ticket I'm sure was purchased LONG before the morning after the election, or the hotel you had no reason to stay in beyond election night...

Quote:I said earlier I was skeptical when I first heard this, but it has come from multiple R&R campaign staffers.

Yeah... right

(11-13-2012 07:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 08:45 AM)dcCid Wrote:  The cc authorization at a hotel is just to reserve the funds against the credit limit. The actual charge does not go through until you check out. If the card is canceled when you check out, the charge will not go through.

This is not true. You have an authorization number, you can present your charge and expect to be paid against that authorization number. If you couldn't, what would the purpose of an authorization be? Look at your card statement. Cancelling a card does not protect you from previously authorized purchases.

Quote:The campaign is a legal organization that continues until it is wound down. The organization does not cease to exist the second a candidate wins or loses.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand

Quote:If a company sends me on business travel, they are responsible for my expenses (as long as they are within corporate policy) and getting me home. If I am fired, or I quite, while on business travel it does not change that. If the company goes bankrupt, then I am not sure.

Again, nothing to do with the topic at hand. The expected charges were authorized at check-in. As to quitting, I'm 100% certain they aren't obligated to fly you home... been there, done that... The issue isn't whether they should pay for the plane ticket I'm sure was purchased LONG before the morning after the election, or the hotel you had no reason to stay in beyond election night...

Quote:I said earlier I was skeptical when I first heard this, but it has come from multiple R&R campaign staffers.

Yeah... right

As someone who has worked in hotels for over a decade in just about every role possible, let me explain how this works. When you check in, an authorization is taken from your card. If your CC is cancelled between the authorization and the actual charging of the card, most hotel PMS systems will not allow the charge to be put through even if the card's bank still sees a valid authorization on that cancelled card. There are some PMS systems that will let it still go through if they are set up in a particular way...particularly WinPM(used at some select service Hyatt hotels and various indy flags) and under some setups with OPERA(used in tons of different flags)

First, can we all start with the fact that no credible news source has confirmed this accusation. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it sure seems unlikely,... and no, a forbes blog is not Forbes magazine

Second, your description, Tiger is hotel policy rather than the banks. If the customer just leaves, I am confident they will submit the charge.

Third, assuming someone DID have this experience, we don't know that his card was cancelled because he was charging porn to his room rather than what is alleged. He might know his card was cancelled, but the reason why, or who did it, is pure speculation... again, assuming it even happened at all

finally... it is shameful what some people will stoop to