Quote:Young people are drawn by a relatively low cost of living, a vibrant arts scene and a collegial, laid-back atmosphere. With abundant public transit, a vibrant bicycle culture and many walkable neighborhoods, there's no need for a car.

"I'm pretty content being able to support myself on a minimum-wage job," said Deanna Horton, 22, who graduated in May from Lewis & Clark college in Portland and is now working the front desk at a science museum. Horton doesn't have a driver's license, but she said the only time she's ever felt she needed one was when she moved across town.

A transplant from Syosset, N.Y., on Long Island, Horton said she'd love to have a more challenging and fulfilling job — but not enough to give up on a city that supports things like a neighborhood tool library, which gives residents free access to a wide variety of tools for carpentry, home improvement and gardening.

"I feel like my job prospects in other places would be really good," she said, looking over the top of her Apple computer at the popular Stumptown Coffee. "But I don't want to try."

http://news.yahoo.com/portland-really-wh...27333.html

Who needs a fulfilling job that you can support yourself on? We've got free hammers!

I'm a hardcore Libertarian. I've loved Portland in my two visits there. Communal socialism and Libertarianism have some common ground. Stumptown is nice. Voodoo doughnuts and Powell's are the ****.

(09-20-2012 12:16 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

Quote:Young people are drawn by a relatively low cost of living, a vibrant arts scene and a collegial, laid-back atmosphere. With abundant public transit, a vibrant bicycle culture and many walkable neighborhoods, there's no need for a car.

"I'm pretty content being able to support myself on a minimum-wage job," said Deanna Horton, 22, who graduated in May from Lewis & Clark college in Portland and is now working the front desk at a science museum. Horton doesn't have a driver's license, but she said the only time she's ever felt she needed one was when she moved across town.

A transplant from Syosset, N.Y., on Long Island, Horton said she'd love to have a more challenging and fulfilling job — but not enough to give up on a city that supports things like a neighborhood tool library, which gives residents free access to a wide variety of tools for carpentry, home improvement and gardening.

"I feel like my job prospects in other places would be really good," she said, looking over the top of her Apple computer at the popular Stumptown Coffee. "But I don't want to try."

http://news.yahoo.com/portland-really-wh...27333.html

Who needs a fulfilling job that you can support yourself on? We've got free hammers!

It's critical we raise the minimum wage so this poor girl can make it.

I'll give her some credit in that she admits it's her own choice and is comfortable with an unchallenging, no-stress minimum wage job. She's not at some Occupy rally screaming about how little she's getting paid and that she 'deserves' more.

But, yeah, it's a mini-case study showing how individual motivation can be drained by growing dependence on large hand-out public programs.

I've visited Portland as well and it is a cool place to visit. Area politics aside, there are some interesting places to see. Although I guess any city is a refreshing place to visit when you live 20 miles outside of Detroit.

(09-20-2012 12:35 PM)Dak10 Wrote:  I'm a hardcore Libertarian. I've loved Portland in my two visits there. Communal socialism and Libertarianism have some common ground.

Absolutely none. One big flaw in libertarianism is that it doesn't address the need to work within a community. That's why libertarians can get picked off so easily: anyone else can gang up and shut them down.

That being said, has anyone noticed that this chick makes it on minimum wage ONLY b/c others put into resources that she simply draws from? That may work in Portland, where the inherent benefits (weather, activities, etc) mean people are willing to pitch in more, but it doesn't work in a broad sense. And if things get lean in Portland, it worn't work there either.

(09-20-2012 12:16 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

Quote:Young people are drawn by a relatively low cost of living, a vibrant arts scene and a collegial, laid-back atmosphere. With abundant public transit, a vibrant bicycle culture and many walkable neighborhoods, there's no need for a car.

"I'm pretty content being able to support myself on a minimum-wage job," said Deanna Horton, 22, who graduated in May from Lewis & Clark college in Portland and is now working the front desk at a science museum. Horton doesn't have a driver's license, but she said the only time she's ever felt she needed one was when she moved across town.

A transplant from Syosset, N.Y., on Long Island, Horton said she'd love to have a more challenging and fulfilling job — but not enough to give up on a city that supports things like a neighborhood tool library, which gives residents free access to a wide variety of tools for carpentry, home improvement and gardening.

"I feel like my job prospects in other places would be really good," she said, looking over the top of her Apple computer at the popular Stumptown Coffee. "But I don't want to try."

http://news.yahoo.com/portland-really-wh...27333.html

Who needs a fulfilling job that you can support yourself on? We've got free hammers!

Sounds like a nice place to live. I can understand why you would bash it because everybody should be greedy and strive to be billionaires. We know you can't stand the thought of public transit. Heaven forbid someone not drive a gas guzzler! Oh, and the tools! My God! Borrowing them for "free"! THe horror!

Robert everyone knows you'd love it. The less you have to support yourself the better you like it. Then again, given your "limitations" you can only support yourself so much.

I have no problem with people binding together for what ever purpose as long as it does not break the principle of non aggression. That certainly does not apply here.

(09-20-2012 12:38 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 12:16 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

Quote:Young people are drawn by a relatively low cost of living, a vibrant arts scene and a collegial, laid-back atmosphere. With abundant public transit, a vibrant bicycle culture and many walkable neighborhoods, there's no need for a car.

"I'm pretty content being able to support myself on a minimum-wage job," said Deanna Horton, 22, who graduated in May from Lewis & Clark college in Portland and is now working the front desk at a science museum. Horton doesn't have a driver's license, but she said the only time she's ever felt she needed one was when she moved across town.

A transplant from Syosset, N.Y., on Long Island, Horton said she'd love to have a more challenging and fulfilling job — but not enough to give up on a city that supports things like a neighborhood tool library, which gives residents free access to a wide variety of tools for carpentry, home improvement and gardening.

"I feel like my job prospects in other places would be really good," she said, looking over the top of her Apple computer at the popular Stumptown Coffee. "But I don't want to try."

http://news.yahoo.com/portland-really-wh...27333.html

Who needs a fulfilling job that you can support yourself on? We've got free hammers!

It's critical we raise the minimum wage so this poor girl can make it.

Actually, it looks like she makes a decent wage given that she has an Apple computer. It seems to me she enjoys her life as it is now and moving elsewhere just to make more isn't really worth it to her. It is a difficult concept for you given that your philosophies are "greed is good" and "you need to be wealthy to be considered successful". Personally, I find it quite sad that you think that way.

RobertN Wrote:Actually, it looks like she makes a decent wage given that she has an Apple computer.

Wow at that logic..even for you.

Quote:The survey also noted that 51% of responders said they took out a loan or used a credit card in the past three years to buy one of Apple's iDevices.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11692904/...ssary.html

(09-20-2012 12:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 12:38 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 12:16 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

Quote:Young people are drawn by a relatively low cost of living, a vibrant arts scene and a collegial, laid-back atmosphere. With abundant public transit, a vibrant bicycle culture and many walkable neighborhoods, there's no need for a car.

"I'm pretty content being able to support myself on a minimum-wage job," said Deanna Horton, 22, who graduated in May from Lewis & Clark college in Portland and is now working the front desk at a science museum. Horton doesn't have a driver's license, but she said the only time she's ever felt she needed one was when she moved across town.

A transplant from Syosset, N.Y., on Long Island, Horton said she'd love to have a more challenging and fulfilling job — but not enough to give up on a city that supports things like a neighborhood tool library, which gives residents free access to a wide variety of tools for carpentry, home improvement and gardening.

"I feel like my job prospects in other places would be really good," she said, looking over the top of her Apple computer at the popular Stumptown Coffee. "But I don't want to try."

http://news.yahoo.com/portland-really-wh...27333.html

Who needs a fulfilling job that you can support yourself on? We've got free hammers!

It's critical we raise the minimum wage so this poor girl can make it.

Actually, it looks like she makes a decent wage given that she has an Apple computer. It seems to me she enjoys her life as it is now and moving elsewhere just to make more isn't really worth it to her. It is a difficult concept for you given that your philosophies are "greed is good" and "you need to be wealthy to be considered successful". Personally, I find it quite sad that you think that way.

You then DO ascribe to Randian philosophy. This girl's motivation is clearly that of self interest. I also fully support her in her choice.

(09-20-2012 01:02 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

RobertN Wrote:Actually, it looks like she makes a decent wage given that she has an Apple computer.

Wow at that logic..even for you.

Quote:The survey also noted that 51% of responders said they took out a loan or used a credit card in the past three years to buy one of Apple's iDevices.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11692904/...ssary.html

Big deal. Most people pay for their big screen tv and other things such as cars and houses with loans and/or credit cards. Most people don't have $1000-$2000 cash to buy an Apple computer. Oh wait. I forgot, you are a Romney millionaire so you are out of touch with the real world. We know millionaires like yourself can plop down $1,000-2,000 as pocket change.

(09-20-2012 01:12 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 01:02 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

RobertN Wrote:Actually, it looks like she makes a decent wage given that she has an Apple computer.

Wow at that logic..even for you.

Quote:The survey also noted that 51% of responders said they took out a loan or used a credit card in the past three years to buy one of Apple's iDevices.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11692904/...ssary.html

Big deal. Most people pay for their big screen tv and other things such as cars and houses with loans and/or credit cards. Most people don't have $1000-$2000 cash to buy an Apple computer. Oh wait. I forgot, you are a Romney millionaire so you are out of touch with the real world. We know millionaires like yourself can plop down $1,000-2,000 as pocket change.

You're the one who assumed she made a decent wage just because she had an Apple laptop, even though the article stated she didn't.

$1k-$2k isn't pocket change to me by any means, but If I don't have the money to pay cash for a device, I don't buy it.

(09-20-2012 01:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 12:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 12:38 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 12:16 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

Quote:Young people are drawn by a relatively low cost of living, a vibrant arts scene and a collegial, laid-back atmosphere. With abundant public transit, a vibrant bicycle culture and many walkable neighborhoods, there's no need for a car.

"I'm pretty content being able to support myself on a minimum-wage job," said Deanna Horton, 22, who graduated in May from Lewis & Clark college in Portland and is now working the front desk at a science museum. Horton doesn't have a driver's license, but she said the only time she's ever felt she needed one was when she moved across town.

A transplant from Syosset, N.Y., on Long Island, Horton said she'd love to have a more challenging and fulfilling job — but not enough to give up on a city that supports things like a neighborhood tool library, which gives residents free access to a wide variety of tools for carpentry, home improvement and gardening.

"I feel like my job prospects in other places would be really good," she said, looking over the top of her Apple computer at the popular Stumptown Coffee. "But I don't want to try."

http://news.yahoo.com/portland-really-wh...27333.html

Who needs a fulfilling job that you can support yourself on? We've got free hammers!

It's critical we raise the minimum wage so this poor girl can make it.

Actually, it looks like she makes a decent wage given that she has an Apple computer. It seems to me she enjoys her life as it is now and moving elsewhere just to make more isn't really worth it to her. It is a difficult concept for you given that your philosophies are "greed is good" and "you need to be wealthy to be considered successful". Personally, I find it quite sad that you think that way.

You then DO ascribe to Randian philosophy. This girl's motivation is clearly that of self interest. I also fully support her in her choice.

Not exactly. Ayn Rand is about greed. THis woman seems to be giving up the greed to be happy. Of course, I do question her choice of computers but that is for another thread. :)

(09-20-2012 01:16 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 01:12 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 01:02 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

RobertN Wrote:Actually, it looks like she makes a decent wage given that she has an Apple computer.

Wow at that logic..even for you.

Quote:The survey also noted that 51% of responders said they took out a loan or used a credit card in the past three years to buy one of Apple's iDevices.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11692904/...ssary.html

Big deal. Most people pay for their big screen tv and other things such as cars and houses with loans and/or credit cards. Most people don't have $1000-$2000 cash to buy an Apple computer. Oh wait. I forgot, you are a Romney millionaire so you are out of touch with the real world. We know millionaires like yourself can plop down $1,000-2,000 as pocket change.

You're the one who assumed she made a decent wage just because she had an Apple laptop, even though the article stated she didn't.

$1k-$2k isn't pocket change to me by any means, but If I don't have the money to pay cash for a device, I don't buy it.

So you are saying you paid cash for your house? You paid cash for your cars? If you DID, I am NOT buying that $1k-$2k isn't pocket change.

Oh wait. You live in Alabama. Yeah, I guess it is possible to buy a single wide and a 30 y/o truck with a shotgun rack in the bed with cash and not be a Romney millionaire.

She's likely not staying just for the public use of tools, but rather the low cost of living mentioned in the first sentence (and urban real estate costs are a whole 'nother topic). She can get a higher paying job and still get her fill of arts, buses, bikes and live in walkable neighborhoods in affluent left-wing areas of Manhattan, DC, San Fran, and the like. But she'll pay 10x as much for a studio apartment that's 10x smaller than what she has now.

Midsize cities like Portland, Minneapolis and Austin are simply becoming more attractive than the massive, intimidating sprawls of New York, LA and Chicago.

(09-20-2012 01:17 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Not exactly. Ayn Rand is about greed. THis woman seems to be giving up the greed to be happy.

It's still self-interest. Maybe to one person, making minimum wage but being around a lot of green open spaces and bohemian neighborhoods makes one "happy." But to another person, plowing through 10 years of graduate school, climbing a corporate ladder in the concrete jungle and making a million bucks makes that person "happy."

So then, why must either one be labeled as greedy? I actually don't subscribe to either lifestyle, I'm somewhere right in the middle of those examples. But I have no qualms toward either individual mapping out what they want.

(09-20-2012 01:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I also fully support her in her choice.

I find it immoral to live well from the theft of others.

(09-20-2012 01:38 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 01:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I also fully support her in her choice.

I find it immoral to live well from the theft of others.

Didn't you work as a teacher at BGSU?

(09-20-2012 01:38 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 01:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I also fully support her in her choice.

I find it immoral to live well from the theft of others.

I fully understand that POV. I don't however hold ill will against bureaucrats. I hold the ill will against the system.