This is the BE,things are different.Army and Navy are not becomming full members but affilates for 4 games each.Army has Rutgers and UConn on their schedule and Navy has Rutgers,UCONN and Pitt on thier schedule.CAA teams in the NE (except BE member Villanova are not likely BE members)

The BE does not divide revune equally. So 4 schools would not have to bring in 24 million. BE could offer less money & schools would still join. BE would have better payout from BB tourn, Travel cost would go down. I believe that 5 bowls would sign up with expanded BE. BCS has appeal process based on TV markets, strengthen markets can only help.

CUSA teams are far beneath the BE.I think you should take in Southern Cal,Texas, Michigan,and Ohio State they would jump at the chance to upgrade to the BE.Get Real!You have VERY few options for expansion and Memphis is one of the best,and even with us all you have to offer is BC$ ca$h.CUSA is a far better fit for Memphis ,but we will follow the money.

hbengal Wrote:CUSA teams are far beneath the BE.I think you should take in Southern Cal,Texas, Michigan,and Ohio State they would jump at the chance to upgrade to the BE.Get Real!You have VERY few options for expansion and Memphis is one of the best,and even with us all you have to offer is BC$ ca$h.CUSA is a far better fit for Memphis ,but we will follow the money.

Here is your puppy treat for that begging act...nice little tiger....ummm ummm ummm

O.G. Eagle Wrote:

hbengal Wrote:CUSA teams are far beneath the BE.I think you should take in  Southern Cal,Texas, Michigan,and Ohio State they would jump at the chance to upgrade to the BE.Get Real!You have VERY few options for expansion and Memphis is one of the best,and even with us all you have to offer is BC$ ca$h.CUSA is a far better fit for Memphis ,but we will follow the money.

Here is your puppy treat for that begging act...nice little tiger....ummm ummm ummm

The thing is OG, if Richard Giannini is offered a chance to go to the Big East he would jump at it.

More money in football because of the BCS Tie In and the Basketball portion alone is worth just as much if not more then the entire C-USA Contract.

hbengal Wrote:CUSA teams are far beneath the BE.I think you should take in Southern Cal,Texas, Michigan,and Ohio State they would jump at the chance to upgrade to the BE.Get Real!You have VERY few options for expansion and Memphis is one of the best,and even with us all you have to offer is BC$ ca$h.CUSA is a far better fit for Memphis ,but we will follow the money.

Why so bitter? This is reason why I don't understand why fans from other schools are so passionate about what happens to our conference. This will be my last time commenting on expansion because I don't want to sound like a broken record. First of all nobody even remotely mentioned USC, Texas, or Michigan, you are just being a azz by trying to put words into peoples mouths. If anybody was the quote un quote perfect candidate they would already be apart of the conference so that is mute. Right now there isn't a team out there who will give us a legimate step up to get closer to the pac 10. So we shouldn't even be discussing this situation until A. The presidents of this conference decide to split. B. There isn't a candidate out there that would boost this conference. C. Look at the schools BCS rankins over the last couple of years!!! There is no one out there, and as much as I hate to agree with top coug he is pointing this out as well as others. The only schools out there who would actually give a conference a leg up is Boise and Fresno, we are talking about football not basketball. The big east is fine as is, but for people getting upset over nothing is the reason why I don't even want to talk about this subject anymore. If you are going to pose an argument atleast do so without having to flame. The big east isn't going to make a move anytime soon.

Quote:There is no one out there, and as much as I hate to agree with top coug he is pointing this out as well as others.

Doesn't that make you feel dirty but researching it Top Coug does have a good point about expansion.

Still disagree with him about the split because you already have rumblings from the BBall Schools about being buried under the All Sports Schools and that will happen.

Don't look for any kind of split until 2010 and right now I would just as well stay at 8 schools and see what happens in the MAC or C-USA East. Let see if anyone steps up the next couple of years.

I have already broke a cardinal rule of mine.lol I said I wasn't going to post to this topic but since you replied to me maize i will go ahead and respond to you. I never said we wouldn't split, I just said until I hear it from a representative of the conference then I will jump on board. Some fans from other schools act as if we are going to split next week. I realize 2010 is very very possible, it wouldn't shock me if it happened but i'm just the type of person who has to see to believe it. All these conspiracy theories about the conference just makes your head spin sometimes. One week a ECU guy comes on here and says we will have a 12 team conference? Anyways this really is my last time posting on this topic.lol

templefootballfan Wrote:The BE does not divide revune equally. So 4 schools would not have to bring in 24 million. BE could offer less money & schools would still join. BE would have better payout from BB tourn, Travel cost would go down.

Thanks for being topic oriented here.

It's a given that the BE doesn't divide the football money equally, with the top four teams each gaining bonuses based upon conference seeding and bowl assignments. That fact doesn't change the impact of more members against the overall amount of revenue generated. If new members are added and the pool of money doesn't equate into the same per-school ratio as before, either the bonuses go down or the base amount of money goes down. I don't think WVU would appreciate getting $200K - $500k less for winning the conference just to leverage someone else's membership. Nor would a Cincy or Rutgers be happy making less money by finishing 10th in a 12 team league as opposed to what they'd earn finishing 7th and 8th in an 8 team league. The idea is for every member to gain financial footing on par with the other super leagues, not reduce financial resources.

Now, might a Memphis or ECU jump at the chance to join the BCS in return for a smaller share? Possibly, but I can't imagine that lasting long, especially if they produce quality results on the field. "Here, Tigers, we really need an 8th conference game, we love your basketball and the likelihood of landing the Liberty Bowl... Oh, but you don't get a full share of the base conference payout. Is that okay?"

True, other factors such as reduced travel costs, greater exposure, etc might counter-balance the
amount of money needed from any expansion, but my estimates suggest that benefit only comes with additions #9 and #12 (for the championship game). And for the "Add 1" scenario, that benefit is roughly a modest $500-$1M for the conference.

Rejoice, though, TS2. Such findings support your general preference against adding a plethora of CUSA sides.

Gunner, Shouldn't the entrance fees of a new member offset any possbile lost revenue for a few years?

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Gunner, Shouldn't the entrance fees of a new member offset any possbile lost revenue for a few years?

They might, but that's a fleeting condition. Suppose your boss offered you $100 right now in return for taking $50 from every paycheck for the rest of the year? Somehow, I don't think you'd feel compensated.

Entrance fees for recent ACC inductees were $3M and are paid by having their conference payouts reduced by $1M per year for 3 years. (It's actually tiered in valuation, but for this discussion...) Assuming the same/similar conditions apply to the BE, that's an additional $125,000 for each existing member for a period of 3 years for adding one new member. According to my estimates, that won't cover the net difference in contract values, and even if it did it would expire before the conference had figured itself out.

The point of any expansion is to add value to the product. While many candidates could possibly yield enhanced exposure, resolve the conference scheduling issue, etc., there are few candidates out there right now that, based on the revenue streams they're receiving in their current conferences, would likely yield a net increase in the per-school value of the BE contracts. At least, not while the BE is receiving a BCS check.

For the record I'll also add this: Based on the released TV schedules of basketball programs for CUSA, Memphis has solidified itself as the clear front runner among non-BCS programs in terms of what they could produce for the BE financially if considered for membership. Sorry, Pirate fans.

I've always though Memphis had an edge over ECU due to basketball & the Liberty Bowl. Gunner, Have you considered additional bowl revenues that an expanded Big East might receive. If the Big East added southern schools that travel well, wouldn't it help the Big East land bowls with better payouts. On top of that, the Big East wouldn't have to worry about Notre Dame swooping in & taking a bowl spot.

Memphis would bring the Liberty Bowl after 2009. Other than that, it would probably be all minimum payout ones.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Gunner, Have you considered additional bowl revenues that an expanded Big East might receive. If the Big East added southern schools that travel well, wouldn't it help the Big East land bowls with better payouts. On top of that, the Big East wouldn't have to worry about Notre Dame swooping in & taking a bowl spot.

a) Realize there are some fans (like me) that want BE teams to go to bowl games. I'm not looking for new members who will go to bowl games instead of my favorite teams. That's why some of the BE fans hope/pray/would love to see a Temple, UMass or some other northeastern school begin to produce on the field and in the stands: An affinity for the northeastern culture that ties them to their favorite school/conference in the first place. I say this just to illustrate the point that while many southern programs might add appeal to prospective bowls, the net result might be a less cohesive conference.

b) Have I factored in the prospects of more bowls? Yep. Best case scenario, IMO and speaking purely from a financial standpoint, is the addition of Memphis plus the additions of both the Liberty and Big Apple bowls. Five bowls for nine teams is pretty good, and those two bowls would probably both be in the $1.5+ M range. And while I don't think that version of the BE could completely escape from a ND tie in, it might be restricted to something like the Gator-Sun version.

BCS
Gator/Sun
Liberty
Big Apple
Meinike
(I don't know where the Toronto Bowl would fit in, but I can assure you all the above would be more appealing)

My assumption has always been the BE 1-A schools, if they broke away, could command a new bb TV contract that would pay much more per school than they receive now. Especially with Memphis. The resulting football TV contracts would not be worth much more, but the league would be much, much healthier.

With 12 members, assuming all the newcomers are from CUSA, it's not quite as pretty. Most of the other bowl options lie further south and west of Liberty, where apparently the BE is not too appealing. Perhaps a BE/CUSA match-up in the Houston? Would the new, southern contingent travel to Toronto? Or to a western bowl like the Poinsetta? At best the BE is going to field 8 bowls for 12 members, meaning 3 more bowls total. Bottom line there isn't the market appeal to displace anyone entrenched in a $2.5 M paying bowl or higher, and thus the new additions will only dilute the BE revenue stream further.

c) I'm working with a poster from another board to provide a pretty decent and thorough analysis of collegiate programs. Taking that info into account, the finalization of new TV and bowl contracts and once this season's BCS rankings have played themselves out, I'll come back and offer what hopefully should be an informed assessment of the relative value of various programs.

Gunner, I like to see BE jump ahead of other BCS conf instead reacting. Eventally conf are going to split BB tourn {Patriot did this yr}. Also think some body goes to 14 at some point. Now 2 seven team tourn {Memph or Louv & Meadowlands} with combined CG gives 180,000 seats with no day games compared to 98,000 seats at MSG with empty day games. ND involved, BE will have 8 bowl games.

TOO MANY BOWLS!!!
if there is this occurence in which you speak of, the BE will tear at the seems

Gunner you mentioned TV contract with expanded BE. BE has to take Labor day wkend from C-USA, MWC is leaving ESPN & Thrus night date will have to be replaced. For any TV contract BE is gonna have to be flexable & bigger conf will be nesasary

just a couple of thoughts.

Quote:Rutgers the past 4 years.

2001 104th
2002 113th
2003 77th
2004 84th

i'm not picking on you at all maize, but just using this as an example because several people did it. it's impossible to have a bcs ranking of 104. i'm not sure where you're getting those numbers from, but if a team does not receive at least one vote in one of the polls, they have no bcs ranking at all. i'm guessing that those are the combined computer rankings that the bcs uses, but that's not a bcs ranking. essentially, a team in that situation is unranked.

Quote:Gunner, I like to see BE jump ahead of other BCS conf instead reacting. Eventally conf are going to split BB tourn {Patriot did this yr}. Also think some body goes to 14 at some point. Now 2 seven team tourn {Memph or Louv & Meadowlands} with combined CG gives 180,000 seats with no day games compared to 98,000 seats at MSG with empty day games. ND involved, BE will have 8 bowl games.

i don't think that any major conference would do this for their basketball tournament. many smaller conferences do it (patriot, horizon league, big sky (i think), big south, and a few others). however, those sites are not predetermined. the sites are based off of what seed a team is. for example, the quaterfinals and semifinals of the patriot league are on the home floors of the top two teams. the championship game is on the home floor of the highest remaining seed. i don't see any major conferences wanting to go to that format.



as far as expansion, i think adding one team at most is the way to go, and that would be after the football schools split off.

what about marshall?? they have a good program (although not this season, but overall they're pretty good). they are in an ideal location. their facilities aren't exactly the best, but if they were to update would you consider them?? also, they are probably more of a house hold program than any other candidates. by that i mean that even just the casual college football fans all across the country know about marshall.