The problem with the attendance argument is we have no idea what will happen if they move up and struggle. App State 18 consecutive winning seasons(last losing season 1993) in that 18 year span they won double digit games 8 times and won at least 8 games in 14 of those 18 seasons. If any Sun Belt team had a run like that, hell, even scaling things down a bit due to FCS playing more games if you make deep playoff run, if any of us had 18 consecutive winning seasons, we'd be averaging much more than we currently do.

I'm not saying App would come in and be a doormat, but if they come in and float between 5-7 and 7-5 for four or five years, I think those numbers will certainly drop. Not taking anything away from App's fan base, but there are casual fans in every fan base, students who don't really care, alumni who don't really care, locals who don't really care. It's much easier to bring in these casual fans when they expect the team to win, afterall football games are more fun when the team you're rooting for is winning, even if it's a casual rooting interest. I'm not saying it's a large contingency of the App fan base, I'm not saying it's a tiny one either. The point is, I think App is one of those rare instances where FBS ball could actually hurt their attendance.

App's success and history is a little better than schools mentioned don't you think.
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Any FCS school that can average 25,000 per game attendance is not your average FCS school.

Appalachian State states attendance this past year would make it the number 2 school in the sun belt.
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Or maybe there isn't anything else to do in Boone other than watching the leaves change.

(09-16-2012 08:41 AM)Hammer58 Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 09:22 AM)voss749 Wrote:  

App's success and history is a little better than schools mentioned don't you think.

Any FCS school that can average 25,000 per game attendance is not your average FCS school.

Appalachian State states attendance this past year would make it the number 2 school in the sun belt.
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Or maybe there isn't anything else to do in Boone other than watching the leaves change.
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People drive from all over to watch App in football. Watauga County isn't very populated, to the point they have one high school. If they ever can move up, they'll be similar to East Carolina over time, meaning 7-10 years they'll push 40K.

(09-19-2012 11:28 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  People drive from all over to watch App in football. Watauga County isn't very populated, to the point they have one high school. If they ever can move up, they'll be similar to East Carolina over time, meaning 7-10 years they'll push 40K.

I think they push 40k a lot sooner than that when there is a big game within the SBC. I am pretty sure there isn't a seat available in the place when they play Georgia Southern now. Could probably push a good bit past 30k in that game at the FCS level if more seats were available.

The best they've done has been around 32-33K. They'll have to build the permanent seats in the grass endzone first and possibly dig down and remove the track to expand first.
I may be crazy, but I think at one time it was rumored that the current home side would one day be the visitor's sideline and they would build the current visitor's sideline up for increased capacity along with an elitist pressbox/suites. If that's the case, the sky is the limit for them. They could easily get to 55/60K.

(09-19-2012 12:51 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The best they've done has been around 32-33K. They'll have to build the permanent seats in the grass endzone first and possibly dig down and remove the track to expand first.
I may be crazy, but I think at one time it was rumored that the current home side would one day be the visitor's sideline and they would build the current visitor's sideline up for increased capacity along with an elitist pressbox/suites. If that's the case, the sky is the limit for them. They could easily get to 55/60K.

I wonder if the mountains aroudn the stadium would cause them expansion problems to get that big?

If they planned it from Day one to expand, I am sure the ability to get to 50 or 60k is possible. We built our stadium with the ability to expand to 50k or so. The foundations for the additional levels are already underground waiting.....

I like the additions of Georgia Southern and App State but let's be honest your not going to come in a post 10 win seasons. I always hear the local population in Troy saying "I wish Troy would have never moved to the Sun Belt because games were more fun when you didn't expect to lose" When Troy was winning Sun Belt titles the locals were not complaining but after one losing season they get of the bandwagon.

Looking back I'm glad we waiting on adding App and GS because we need at least five of our current schools to brand and identity. We have Troy already, WKU and UL look great. ASU has major potential and even ULM puts together a good squad every few years.

(09-22-2012 11:18 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I like the additions of Georgia Southern and App State but let's be honest your not going to come in a post 10 win seasons. I always hear the local population in Troy saying "I wish Troy would have never moved to the Sun Belt because games were more fun when you didn't expect to lose" When Troy was winning Sun Belt titles the locals were not complaining but after one losing season they get of the bandwagon.

Looking back I'm glad we waiting on adding App and GS because we need at least five of our current schools to brand and identity. We have Troy already, WKU and UL look great. ASU has major potential and even ULM puts together a good squad every few years.

I don't think we will win 10 games right off the bat. But I do think we would be very competitive from Day 1. Plus, we will bring plenty of fans to games both home and away.

(09-23-2012 08:00 AM)Tennessee_Eagle Wrote:  I don't think we will win 10 games right off the bat. But I do think we would be very competitive from Day 1. Plus, we will bring plenty of fans to games both home and away.

Then make the move up and make your bones as a D1A independent for 5 years or so and show us what we will get rather than expecting us to buy a pig in a poke.

FCS programs can only become an FBS program if they are invited to an FBS conference.

All of a sudden you want a program to prove themselves on the field? If only that were the criteria both would already be members.

(09-24-2012 07:56 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  FCS programs can only become an FBS program if they are invited to an FBS conference.

All of a sudden you want a program to prove themselves on the field? If only that were the criteria both would already be members.

Wrong, you haven't proven anything on the field in D1A. We've heard this same song and dance from every decent d1aa program. They all claim they would have instant success / credibility in D1A only to discover he cold reality of a full season in D1A.

(09-26-2012 03:48 PM)Hammer58 Wrote:  

(09-24-2012 07:56 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  FCS programs can only become an FBS program if they are invited to an FBS conference.

All of a sudden you want a program to prove themselves on the field? If only that were the criteria both would already be members.

Wrong, you haven't proven anything on the field in D1A. We've heard this same song and dance from every decent d1aa program. They all claim they would have instant success / credibility in D1A only to discover he cold reality of a full season in D1A.

I think Saint was referring to the fact they have proved themselves on the field at their level. If that was the case, they would already be FBS.

That was definately one of the prerequisites a decade or so ago.

(09-26-2012 03:48 PM)Hammer58 Wrote:  

(09-24-2012 07:56 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  FCS programs can only become an FBS program if they are invited to an FBS conference.

All of a sudden you want a program to prove themselves on the field? If only that were the criteria both would already be members.

Wrong, you haven't proven anything on the field in D1A. We've heard this same song and dance from every decent d1aa program. They all claim they would have instant success / credibility in D1A only to discover he cold reality of a full season in D1A.

I wish Sun Belt teams would play us. If anyone at the FCS level has proven it on the field App has.

My point was you guys invited GA St., but now want someone to prove it on the field, seems hypocritical doesn't it?

No hypocrisy here. Our new commissioner made those decisions. I never said I agreed with it.

Are you saying you disagree with it?

I've been watching the SBC message board for a few years, and after reading this topic, finally decided to join and post... I'd like to add a little insight to the argument from the standpoint of actually having played through the transition (WKU '03-'07). This goes back to the orginal debate on whether or not the SBC is better than FCS, not who should be added, shouldn't be added, etc.

Having played at WKU directly after the National Championship in '02, I was fortunate enough to have played for one of the top tier AA programs in one of the top conferences (the old Gateway). At the time, I was adamant that the Gateway and FCS was as good as the Belt, and possibly even better given the success of teams like UNI, Appy, GSU, etc. This belief was continued through my senior year in '07, when we played against UNT, MTSU, and Troy and were competitive in all three games and should have been 2-1 (UNT fans can recall why we weren't...).

At the time, the top FCS teams were every bit as equal to the Belt, and many of the top teams like Appy and GSU would have been in contention for the title. HOWEVER, times have changed. The Belt has improved drastically and I can literally walk over to Smith Stadium and see how much bigger, faster, and stronger the overall team is today verus when I played. Sure, we had some outliers that would start today, but the quality of athlete that exists in the Belt today is as high as it's ever been, and I'm afraid it's not the same as it was a few years ago.

I hope that the FCS posters on here don't take any disrespect to my comments, as I have utmost respect for your programs. Hell, I played in the same division, so I understand fully the pride that exists for your teams. Just my two cents about the improvement of the Belt versus FCS teams these days...

From a Texas St perspective or really my own view.

When Texas St students voted to increase funding and push towards a FBS invite I was against it. I enjoyed the playoff system and Texas St ha struggled for decades with only recent success since 2005. Many people said that we didn't have a successful history so moving to FBS was a bad idea ect. That wasn't my concern as much as missing the chance at a national championship.

However, as the plans came together, facilities were expanded or upgraded, recruits got excited, and fans got excited, I saw what an opportunity it was.

I no longer have to explain FCS football, and people are interested in who we play next. They seem to know who the WAC and Sun Belt teams are and not the Southland.

Overall I couldn't be happier with the move. FCS football is great and ill continue to follow it but there's just something exciting about playing in the top level of football even if you'll never make a national championship and you play in one of the lesser conferences.

All this may and probably will change if the BCS conferences break away. Legal action and all sorts of hoops will probably have to be dealt with though.

My point is that success doesn't depend fully on where you've been or what you've done, it's the current plan. Successful teams like App St have a good idea of what to do so it may be easier. Texas St figured it out just in time, and Georgia St wasn't ready and got caught with their pants done. They had a long term goal of FBS football that turned into immediate plans. This seems to have caused headaches that may have been ironed out. Now they get a crash course with a bigger spotlight. Failure at FCS when never playing a down is forgotten about. See Campbell. Failure at FBS when you're a startup and schools with much more success that have been wanting that invite for years will pounce on it.

(09-27-2012 07:58 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Are you saying you disagree with it?

Yes, but don't get excited, you would not have been my pick either.

If it was your pick would you have picked GA st or App?

(09-29-2012 10:31 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  If it was your pick would you have picked GA st or App?

Neither