(08-11-2012 02:21 PM)Max Power Wrote:  The Independent Payment Advisory Board set up by Obamacare's purpose is to find ways to cut Medicare costs and find more efficient ways to deliver healthcare, without cutting benefits or charging Medicare recipients. So yes Dems have enacted entitlement reform.

What a ******* joke

You really are cluelessly stupid

Maximus.

This should be a HAPPY day for you. Why so malcontent? Romney made his VP choice today. Rejoice ye Merry Men! I know they are on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

(08-11-2012 02:10 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-11-2012 02:00 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Nobody cares that Obama hasn't passed a budget. People care that Paul Ryan wants to end Medicare as we know it and raise taxes on the poor and middle class to pay for tax cuts for the rich. A lot of people.

Well at some point we're going to have to end Medicare as we know it. Might as well start something new sooner than later.

Exactly. Medicare as we know it is filled with fraud, waste and is set to bankrupt in about a decade. Why wouldn't you end something like that?

And Obama cut 500 billion from Medicare when he passed Obamacare.

Oh, and if Ryan's views on Medicare are so radical how come Senator Wyden for Oregon co-sponsored a medicare bill with him not long ago? Is Wyden a radical?

How is it a joke? Because it doesn't fit in your little Fox News bubble world that Democrats would do something to control costs? Also Obamacare itself reduces future growth of Medicare spending by $500 billion over the next decade, as the CBO has found and which Republicans demagogue as "cuts to Medicare" (rated mostly false by Politifact):

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/sta...re-includ/

Quote: A discredited claim is making a comeback following the U.S. Supreme Court ruling upholding most of the national health care reform law.

U.S. Rep. Jon Runyan said in a press release on Thursday that the law, formally known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, makes cuts to Medicare.

"My constituents simply cannot afford the $500 billion in new tax increases and $500 billion in Medicare cuts required to pay for this flawed legislation, nor can our economy sustain the job-killing mandates and regulations it imposes," Runyan, a Republican representing parts of southern New Jersey, said in a press release.

Mitt Romney, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, repeated the claim in his statement about the high court’s ruling, saying "Obamacare cuts Medicare - cuts Medicare by approximately $500 billion dollars."

Both claims distort the truth, as our PolitiFact colleagues have found many times.

The law aims to slow future growth in Medicare spending. It does not cut from the Medicare program.

The health care law made several changes to Medicare, which provides health insurance for millions of seniors and people under 65 receiving Social Security disability payments.

Some of the changes will increase Medicare spending to help cover prevention services and to fill the so-called doughnut hole, a gap in prescription drug coverage for some enrollees, according to a tutorial by Tricia Neuman, vice president and director of the Medicare Policy Project for the Kaiser Family Foundation, an independent group that analyzes the health care system.

Other changes aim to reduce growth in Medicare spending, by more than $500 billion over 10 years, though estimates of the future savings vary.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, or CBO, and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services have both released reports since the health care law passed showing that the Affordable Care Act will reduce future spending growth on Medicare by more than $500 billion.

The Affordable Care Act "contains numerous provisions that, on balance, will reduce federal spending on Medicare," the CBO said in a June 2012 report.

The biggest portion of that savings, according to Neuman’s tutorial, will come from reducing annual increases in payments to medical providers.

But the health care law does not cut $500 billion from Medicare. It just reduces future growth.

With the law, Medicare spending will still increase.

It’s important to note, as PolitiFact has found, that the savings from the reduction in Medicare spending will help offset spending on other provisions of the health care law, a point that Runyan noted in a statement to PolitiFact New Jersey.

"The CBO projects Medicare savings of approximately $500 Billion and instead of using that money to shore up the program, the savings are diverted from Medicare and used to fund other provisions of ObamaCare. Even worse, this piece of legislation is hitting individuals, working families and small businesses with a massive tax increase that will further cripple the economy and slow job creation," Runyan said.

Our ruling

Runyan, repeating a Republican talking point about Obama’s health care law, said there are "$500 billion in Medicare cuts required to pay for this flawed legislation."

The legislation aims to slow projected spending on Medicare by more than $500 billion over a 10-year period, but it does not cut that money from the program. Medicare spending will increase over that time frame.

Still, a sliver of truth exists in this claim, because the difference in the spending will help offset costs of other provisions in the law.

We rate this claim Mostly False.

(08-11-2012 02:00 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Nobody cares that Obama hasn't passed a budget. People care that Paul Ryan wants to end Medicare as we know it and raise taxes on the poor and middle class to pay for tax cuts for the rich. A lot of people.

Once again MaxiPad it doesn't cut anything for anyone over 55,

What's Obama's Plan? 2.5 Trillion in new taxes and ObamaCare

It did initially, but he revised it this year. I guess you could say he was for voucherizing Medicare for 55+ ers before he was against it.

The ACA has some good cost controlling provisions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/t...story.html

(08-11-2012 02:49 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  

(08-11-2012 02:00 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Nobody cares that Obama hasn't passed a budget. People care that Paul Ryan wants to end Medicare as we know it and raise taxes on the poor and middle class to pay for tax cuts for the rich. A lot of people.

Once again MaxiPad it doesn't cut anything for anyone over 55,

What's Obama's Plan? 2.5 Trillion in new taxes and ObamaCare

Max is a pathological liar. He will always lie to protect his god Obama. It's the way sycophants work.

His assertion that the IAPB is some kind of stellar reform is a perfect example. Idiot liberals like him never think to ask HOW it will save costs. Because it requires some deductive logic and common sense. Two things liberals don't really embrace.

(08-11-2012 09:48 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Why is Ryan scary?

He supports the Patriot Act...He supports foreign interventionism and would sacrifice US lives to protect Israel at all cost. He heavily supports a growing US police state. I think Ryan is a hypocrite. He constantly rails for smaller government but has no qualms about increasing the police state. He just wants smaller government for things HE does not like.

(08-11-2012 02:00 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Nobody cares that Obama hasn't passed a budget. People care that Paul Ryan wants to end Medicare as we know it and raise taxes on the poor and middle class to pay for tax cuts for the rich. A lot of people.

Obama has done all those things... and you don't care. So why care if Ryan does?

When did Obama do all those things?

(08-11-2012 03:09 PM)Max Power Wrote:  When did Obama do all those things?

It came to him in a dream last night so it must be true.

Results from a July 18 focus group on Paul Ryan's budget--

http://www.democracycorps.com/National-S...tt-romney/

Quote: At the outset, the Ryan budget (described in Ryan’s actual language) barely garners majority support. And voters raise serious doubts when they hear about proposed cuts — particularly to Medicare, education, and children of the working poor. President Obama’s lead against Romney more than doubles when the election is framed as a choice between the two candidates’ positions on the Ryan budget — particularly its impact on the most vulnerable. The President makes significant gains among key groups, including independents and voters in the Rising American Electorate (the unmarried women, youth, and minority voters who drove Obama to victory in 2008).

I think Romney just lost the election. To me, this appears to be a repeat of 2004. Obama is the democrats Bush. He's a deeply unpopular divisive president who has a strong loyal following among his base. The other side is putting up a scrub to run against him (think Kerry). So Obama will win, but will damage his party forever. The taint that Obama will leave on the democratic party will be similar to the one that Bush left on the republicans. Meanwhile, America keeps falling apart.

(08-12-2012 09:08 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I think Romney just lost the election. To me, this appears to be a repeat of 2004. Obama is the democrats Bush. He's a deeply unpopular divisive president who has a strong loyal following among his base. The other side is putting up a scrub to run against him (think Kerry). So Obama will win, but will damage his party forever. The taint that Obama will leave on the democratic party will be similar to the one that Bush left on the republicans. Meanwhile, America keeps falling apart.

Agree.

Here's what really troubles me. We cannot continue on the path we're on now. Deep down inside, Obama and the democrats simply HAVE to know this. There's no way anyone with a brain can conclude otherwise. But they don't care, as long as they can spin things like Max's graphic to demonize efforts to do what is needed, in order to keep their party in power. This is exactly the criticism I would have of Shrub and Cheney and Karl Rove.

This is all going to fall apart, and whoever has the watch when that happens, and whatever party he or she belongs to, will be vilified for decades. I don't know whether we are close enough to the edge that we will go over in the next four years. I'm pretty sure we can't make it to 2020 on this path, and I'd say it's about 50-50 whether we can survive one more term with either Obama or Romney in the white house. And there are no other realistic choices.

Only a truly pathetic hack like Max would look at that study by Democracy Corp and believe any of it is valid. They present the most biased opinions/lies about the Ryan budget in the most hyperbolic way possible and you're supposed to be surprised they get the results they do?

You crossed a new level of stupid Max. Being a sycophant has to rot your brain. I mean really. You are sick in a major way.

I've said it before but here it is again.

Who will Obama blame for the mess he'll inherit if he's re-elected to a second term?