(06-15-2012 06:59 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: (06-15-2012 02:55 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote: Well I totally agree with that statement. I just don't happen to believe that the money that the B12 is speculated to receive matches up with reality. I also agree that time will be the ultimate arbitor here.
What I don't understand is the, um...logic(?) that holds that a league can lose economic juggernauts like Nebraska and Texas A&M as well as rock solid programs with large media markets in Colorado and Missouri; and replace them with a state school in a poor, impoverished state with no markets at all (WVU) and a tiny, private school with a small fan base in a duplicate market (TCU); and have that somehow magically make them better off than they were before the mass defections? That just doesn't make sense no matter who you root for.
I could be wrong, I very often am. I just don't happen to think that this is one such instance.
I can certainly respect that position. The Big 12 at the time when programs were leaving is not the same Big 12 that exists now though. When folks say that the departures of Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and Texas A&M prove that the Big 12 is not that strong, they are either a) purposefully ignoring the changes that have come about since then or b) ignorant of such policy changes. I personally find you to be one of the least ignorant posters on the board Yinzer so I am going to assume that you do not think too much of the policy changes and new contracts signed by the Big 12.
The present day situation is not about those departures and talk of such is pretty much just misdirection and misinformation. The quiet guests and light posting members that read these threads for the opinions of the persons here deserve to not have to sift through obvious misinformation. If any teams are to join the Big 12 it will have nothing to do with the departures of Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and Texas A&M. I know ACC folks like to point and scream about that but it is a non issue as far as whether or not the current Big 12 is a good fit for any other programs.
I can't conceive of a reason that two valuable properties like Texas and Oklahoma are going to surround themselves with good teams, but not great teams, and teams with little national cache, and expect that their subsequent standing in the college football world is not going to be impaired when the conferences around them are adding strength (ACC excepted) in football.
Utah will catch up to speed in the PAC. It may take Colorado some time but they will get there too. Nebraska is beginning to find some legs in the Big 10.
West Virginia and TCU have earned respect. Baylor has significantly altered its sports course. Thanks to Snyder KState is coming back to form. But, as good as these teams are, or can be, they are not the kind of backdrop that is going to showcase the Longhorns and Sooners the way that Nebraska once did, or for that matter Colorado in its prime.
They've got each other but Texas doesn't even have its College Station rival any longer.
The Big 12 as a ten team league has two old time stars, surrounded by 5 pretty darn good support players. But Texas Tech since Leach, Kansas, and Iowa State are three fairly weak teams for such a small conference. And we are forgetting that West Virginia is on an island if expansion doesn't happen. That situation won't stay healthy for long if they don't get some company closer to them.
That is why I make the unpopular assertion that the Big 12 will be with us a long time if they expand. But, Texas and Oklahoma must be exploring other options if they don't.
Now I say this especially in light of West Virginia's situation. If Texas and Oklahoma were committed to the longterm future of the Big 12 they would have wasted no time in asking Louisville, Pitt, Maryland, Cincinnati, or anyone else West Virginia deemed a good companion for their addition to the Big 12.
Face it guys, the Mountaineers are a great add for a football conference. They have a really good program that operates in the black (a key these days), a rabid fan base, and are good in more than one sport. If Texas and Oklahoma were serious about rebuilding the Big 12 at a time when every large conference was taking a serious look at 16 what would it have cost them to add two schools from the Mountaineers region of the country to get back to twelve?
Instead they are dragging their feet. Why?
Maybe FSU and Clemson are moving to the Big 12 and they are just waiting for the announcements to be made.
Maybe Texas and OU just wanted 10 to keep their tv money the same while they studied their options. They probably figured that TCU would jump at the chance to play closer to home and that if anything did happen WVU would likely go SEC if the SEC couldn't crack the ACC. Everyone else they care about (Texas Tech and Okie State) will leave with them if they go. Which oh by the way, was the reason Mizzou got the heck out of Dodge!
It takes 6 of the original 8 leaving prior to July 1st to void the grant of rights through dissolution. After July 1st it takes 8 of 10. They know they can place 6 teams (themselves and 4 more) if they move. They might can place 8 if they really, really had to. But there is now way, if they added Louisville or BYU, that they could place 10 of the 12 to have enough to dissolve. That means their television money would be forfieited for 6 years if they bolted. And another thing, in the present climate 6 years in an eternity. They know what they could make by moving today. They don't have a clue what they could make 4 years from now in this economic climate, and no one else does either. It's this kind of stuff that makes Doc the reasonable one for doubting.
I have even wondered if the top 64, or whatever number of, schools broke away from the NCAA and formed their own organization if that would legally break all obligations signed under the NCAA? I would love to hear a good contract lawyer respond to those angles.
So in deference to what He1nous has pointed out about the confusion that new posters might find with the disinformation about past sins in the Big 12 there are some very legitimate angles that need to be explained by Texas and Oklahoma if the Big 12 decides not to expand.
I for one just don't buy the garbage about not wanting a Conf. Champ. Game! Why invite WVU if you won't invite someone near to them like they were promised? Why renege on the statement that Louisville was next (like they told the congressman)? Could it be that FSU and Clemson were cooked up as an excuse not to move on a Louisville team they didn't really intend to take? It sure has put the Cardinals in a difficult situation. They've acted in good faith! Where is the earnestness of the Big 12? In fact if FSU & Clemson are a done deal why is that not even a better reason to bring in Pitt and Louisville to join the Mountaineers? I mean if the ACC is going to lose its football powers it seems that inside news would help them land somebody else to go with Clemson and FSU?
Logic! Where is it? When Dodds has misled so many in the past to further his own ends why is it so difficult to question this ridiculous waiting to get back to twelve? Especially when there are several programs clamoring for the chance. If not Pitt or Maryland to go with Louisville certainly Cincinnati would love the chance.
No, when you boil it down it comes to just these two points and one is much shakier than the other. 1. F.S.U. and Clemson are numbers 11 & 12 for the Big 12 (which still leaves WVU on an island). Or, 2. Texas and Oklahoma have no intention of remaining in a conference that cannot attract at least of couple of teams they consider to be peers.
Furthermore, in spite of the LHN, remaining in a conference surrounded by small states with limited viewers would mean that while the Big 10 network was running nicely in the black, and an SEC network was about to be up and running with new markets freshly plucked from among your old comrades, and the PAC was aligning with the Big 10 for still larger television revenue, that your future would be secured looking at the taillights of the SEC, Big10, and PAC buses passing you on the highway of income and leaving you in the East Texas dust as they raced out of your reach.
I've read a lot of posts about Texas ego and how I don't understand it. Maybe they are right. But answer this question please, "Do two schools with huge egoes allow everyone else to pass them by, or do they look for greener pastures where their revenue keeps them at the top of the old pyramid?" JR
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"Stop the presses: The rumors are dying..." (LINK)
