(05-25-2012 01:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  N*gger is a term which relegates someone to a subhuman class that was once legally owned and considered property in our culture...

Meh... My grandparents always used it to refer to a worthless person, regardless of color.

(05-25-2012 08:57 PM)RaiderATO Wrote:  

(05-25-2012 01:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  N*gger is a term which relegates someone to a subhuman class that was once legally owned and considered property in our culture...

Meh... My grandparents always used it to refer to a worthless person, regardless of color.

Well, that's fine, but I think it's not unreasonable to expect that you understand why others take it differently. It's the same with me and ******, I don't mean that in a 'you're a homosexual' sort of way but I understand why homosexuals wouldn't like me throwing that term around like it doesn't mean anything.

Quote:Take National Lampoon's Vacation as yet another example. A naive Clark Griswold stops in a bad neighborhood to ask for directions, and while being distracted, a group of black guys steals his hubcaps and spraypaints graffiti on the car. No way this makes it on the final cut if the screenplay was written in 2012. And if they did replicate the scene, it'd be a racially mixed gang, or a southern motorcycle gang, etc.

It absolutely would, you're just out of the loop when it comes to good comedy. For sh*ts sake, in the popular show Archer the titular characters cell phone ringtone is a song called "Mulatto Butts", Always Sunny in Philadelphia had the pilot episode show a black character walk into their bar and instantly they asked if they were being robbed, and I can name dozens more where that came from. Again, you're projecting what you hear about in the news media onto entertainment media when it's undeniably not the case.





And for the person saying I got offended by the n*gger reference (I'm only not typing ****** because it auto blocks it), I didn't. It's just not an accurate barometer as those two terms (polack and n*gger) aren't at all close to each other in usage, at least in our culture.

(05-26-2012 11:14 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-25-2012 08:57 PM)RaiderATO Wrote:  

(05-25-2012 01:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  N*gger is a term which relegates someone to a subhuman class that was once legally owned and considered property in our culture...

Meh... My grandparents always used it to refer to a worthless person, regardless of color.

Well, that's fine, but I think it's not unreasonable to expect that you understand why others take it differently. It's the same with me and ******, I don't mean that in a 'you're a homosexual' sort of way but I understand why homosexuals wouldn't like me throwing that term around like it doesn't mean anything.

Quote:Take National Lampoon's Vacation as yet another example. A naive Clark Griswold stops in a bad neighborhood to ask for directions, and while being distracted, a group of black guys steals his hubcaps and spraypaints graffiti on the car. No way this makes it on the final cut if the screenplay was written in 2012. And if they did replicate the scene, it'd be a racially mixed gang, or a southern motorcycle gang, etc.

It absolutely would, you're just out of the loop when it comes to good comedy. For sh*ts sake, in the popular show Archer the titular characters cell phone ringtone is a song called "Mulatto Butts", Always Sunny in Philadelphia had the pilot episode show a black character walk into their bar and instantly they asked if they were being robbed, and I can name dozens more where that came from. Again, you're projecting what you hear about in the news media onto entertainment media when it's undeniably not the case.





And for the person saying I got offended by the n*gger reference (I'm only not typing ****** because it auto blocks it), I didn't. It's just not an accurate barometer as those two terms (polack and n*gger) aren't at all close to each other in usage, at least in our culture.

UFO, you're wrong. Why was Ted Dansen criticized for putting on a black face? Why was Jimmy the Greek fired? Why was Howard Cosell hounded over a monkey remark? Call a black kid "boy" recently?

(05-26-2012 11:14 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  And for the person saying I got offended by the n*gger reference (I'm only not typing ****** because it auto blocks it), I didn't. It's just not an accurate barometer as those two terms (polack and n*gger) aren't at all close to each other in usage, at least in our culture.

Well to quote something I once read

Quote:Well, that's fine, but I think it's not unreasonable to expect that you understand why others take it differently.

Quote:UFO, you're wrong. Why was Ted Dansen criticized for putting on a black face? Why was Jimmy the Greek fired? Why was Howard Cosell hounded over a monkey remark? Call a black kid "boy" recently?

Those are completely irrelevant to the discussion in regards to the PC-ness of entertainment industry, and I hate beating a dead horse but you're making it hard not to, it's about context. Satirizing racism is inherently far different than actual racism, I really don't know how I'm being forced to explain that to what I assume is a grown man.

(05-26-2012 11:14 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  And for the person saying I got offended by the n*gger reference (I'm only not typing ****** because it auto blocks it), I didn't. It's just not an accurate barometer as those two terms (polack and n*gger) aren't at all close to each other in usage, at least in our culture.

If you just really want to use it, use the plural.

GTS or anyone else - might want to add that to the filter.

(05-26-2012 11:42 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 11:14 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  And for the person saying I got offended by the n*gger reference (I'm only not typing ****** because it auto blocks it), I didn't. It's just not an accurate barometer as those two terms (polack and n*gger) aren't at all close to each other in usage, at least in our culture.

Well to quote something I once read

Quote:Well, that's fine, but I think it's not unreasonable to expect that you understand why others take it differently.

But the inherent vitriol in the meanings of different words is the problem you're having with this topic matter. You might mean n*gger in a way that doesn't include all of the history and it's usage in our culture, but it can still easily carry that weight to it. There aren't many terms, in our specific culture, that carry that much weight because there aren't many other groups that were so systematically and overwhelmingly persecuted, and certainly not as recently. What is so hard to understand about that?

Here's the problem. I can name plenty of names that the persecuted ones don't embrace. Nobody has been persecuted longer and from more directions than the jewish people... Ever hear them refer to each other as "my Hebrew"? Much less any of the "bad" words.

So is it bad or isn't it? Or does it depend on context? And if it depends on context, then why does the race of the deliverer matter? Hispanics and Asians never enslaved blacks that I know of, so is it okay for THEM to say it in proper context?

(05-26-2012 05:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Here's the problem. I can name plenty of names that the persecuted ones don't embrace. Nobody has been persecuted longer and from more directions than the jewish people... Ever hear them refer to each other as "my Hebrew"? Much less any of the "bad" words.

Every jewish person I know pokes fun at being jewish constantly, seriously they're among the most self-depreciating groups in the world. There's an entire subsection of comedy that's basically pioneered by jews making fun of being jewish for sh*ts sake. Jesus people, you all need to stop letting the news media tell you what's occurring in the world and open your eyes, you look clueless.

Quote:So is it bad or isn't it? Or does it depend on context? And if it depends on context, then why does the race of the deliverer matter? Hispanics and Asians never enslaved blacks that I know of, so is it okay for THEM to say it in proper context?

Why does the race matter? Because it makes it harder to perceive a person of the same race being racist against their own race. I mean, is that legitimately a question?

As for the second portion of your question, whether or not their race enslaved blacks is irrelevant; it's the context. You can be an asian man and use n*gger in a way that obviously meant to be taken offensively and it still carries the same meaning, that they were considered as subhuman in many areas up to and including 50-60 years ago in this country.

I just want to point out this entire line of white males complaining about not being able to discern what is or isn't racist is such a first world problem it's painful.

You really need to learn to read... And know when people are Leading you to such obvious points.

They are Exceptionally self deprecating, yet I've never ONcE heard one refer to another as "ki*k*". That is precisely the point. I didn't know I needed to spell it out for you. if the word is as offensive as so may claim, they wouldn't use it at all.

As to the rest of your "miss"... You said precisely what I alluded to... That it is the intent that matters, and not the race of the speaker... Or at least shouldn't be, but it is. If I said "you people" to a person of color, who also likely belongs to dozens of other groups of people, then suddenly "you people" is a curse... Whether insult was intended. Meanwhile, cracker, honky... Whatever... Is okay, despite the obvious intended slight.

That is bullspt... Yet it happens every single day

It's not that I want to call someone a name... It's that I want people to be responsible for their own actions. If I want to insult you, I will, and you can call me out on it. If I'm not, "making it up" that I am insulting you is pointless

(05-26-2012 06:41 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Every jewish person I know pokes fun at being jewish constantly, seriously they're among the most self-depreciating groups in the world. There's an entire subsection of comedy that's basically pioneered by jews making fun of being jewish for sh*ts sake. Jesus people, you all need to stop letting the news media tell you what's occurring in the world and open your eyes, you look clueless.

That runs counter to every Jew I grew up with, and there were a lot, who were extremely sensitive to being picked on because of their heritage.

(05-27-2012 05:23 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If I said "you people" to a person of color, who also likely belongs to dozens of other groups of people, then suddenly "you people" is a curse... Whether insult was intended. Meanwhile, cracker, honky... Whatever... Is okay, despite the obvious intended slight.

I never understood why "you people" is taken as an insult. When I say "you people" it refers to the group of people I'm refering to, nothing more, it could be a trade group, sports team or fans or whatever. How is that racism? Just another phrase highjacked by the PC police, I guess.

Exactly smn. I will miss the quite, but MLK said something about judging people by the quality of their character, not the color of their skin... Yet here today... Blacks are among the first to judge people by the color of their skin rather than the quality of their character. If a black man says "n", it's fine... If a white man does, even as a similar term of endearment... Of "cool".., it is a slight... Because of the color of the speaker. Look at the term "boy". Aren't there black people who are boys? The question is, am I intending to slight you when I say it. If I am, then it shouldn't matter if I call you boy or "n" or Trixie... It's an insult.

(05-25-2012 08:57 PM)RaiderATO Wrote:  

(05-25-2012 01:13 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  N*gger is a term which relegates someone to a subhuman class that was once legally owned and considered property in our culture...

Meh... My grandparents always used it to refer to a worthless person, regardless of color.

I've frequently heard that, but I've never once actually heard it used in that context.

(05-27-2012 05:45 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(05-26-2012 06:41 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Every jewish person I know pokes fun at being jewish constantly, seriously they're among the most self-depreciating groups in the world. There's an entire subsection of comedy that's basically pioneered by jews making fun of being jewish for sh*ts sake. Jesus people, you all need to stop letting the news media tell you what's occurring in the world and open your eyes, you look clueless.

That runs counter to every Jew I grew up with, and there were a lot, who were extremely sensitive to being picked on because of their heritage.

About ~25% of my school growing up was jewish, they literally called themselves the 'jew crew'. They constantly poked fun at themselves, hell the most successful jewish comedians are almost entirely self-depreciating and much of that is aimed at their jewish heritage. I don't know what else to say, really, but your small amount of anecdotal evidence isn't nearly compelling. Hell, just look up the term Jewish Humor on Wikipedia and read up. It's virtually all self-depreciating, and it's rooted quite deeply in their culture.

Quote:As to the rest of your "miss"... You said precisely what I alluded to... That it is the intent that matters, and not the race of the speaker... Or at least shouldn't be, but it is. If I said "you people" to a person of color, who also likely belongs to dozens of other groups of people, then suddenly "you people" is a curse... Whether insult was intended. Meanwhile, cracker, honky... Whatever... Is okay, despite the obvious intended slight.

You realize what you're doing here is simply fabricating a situation in which you're assuming you know how another person would respond just so you can feel as though you're being unfairly attacked for something that didn't happen. That's a level of absurdity that I can't even begin to relate to.

(05-28-2012 09:36 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Exactly smn. I will miss the quite, but MLK said something about judging people by the quality of their character, not the color of their skin... Yet here today... Blacks are among the first to judge people by the color of their skin rather than the quality of their character. If a black man says "n", it's fine... If a white man does, even as a similar term of endearment... Of "cool".., it is a slight... Because of the color of the speaker. Look at the term "boy". Aren't there black people who are boys? The question is, am I intending to slight you when I say it. If I am, then it shouldn't matter if I call you boy or "n" or Trixie... It's an insult.

Yeah, it is so unfair, I mean it's not as if I can in anyway comprehend why blacks would be more touchy towards racially insensitive terms than the average person. It's been like a whole 60 years since they've finally been guaranteed the right to vote/learn/work/etc, I mean, come on! I don't get upset when someone says mick despite the fact there's a decent chance my great-great-great-great-great grandparents might have faced some slight discrimination until they assimilated into our culture, COME ON BLACK PEOPLE GET OVER IT ALREADY.

I'm making nothing up. It has happened to me. The only absurdity is coming from someone who says it doesn't happen. I find it amusing that you talk about Jewish people making jokes about themselves and ignore the jokes that black people make about themselves

"you people" Has become a meme in movies

(05-28-2012 02:47 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 09:36 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Exactly smn. I will miss the quite, but MLK said something about judging people by the quality of their character, not the color of their skin... Yet here today... Blacks are among the first to judge people by the color of their skin rather than the quality of their character. If a black man says "n", it's fine... If a white man does, even as a similar term of endearment... Of "cool".., it is a slight... Because of the color of the speaker. Look at the term "boy". Aren't there black people who are boys? The question is, am I intending to slight you when I say it. If I am, then it shouldn't matter if I call you boy or "n" or Trixie... It's an insult.

Yeah, it is so unfair, I mean it's not as if I can in anyway comprehend why blacks would be more touchy towards racially insensitive terms than the average person. It's been like a whole 60 years since they've finally been guaranteed the right to vote/learn/work/etc, I mean, come on! I don't get upset when someone says mick despite the fact there's a decent chance my great-great-great-great-great grandparents might have faced some slight discrimination until they assimilated into our culture, COME ON BLACK PEOPLE GET OVER IT ALREADY.

Get over yourself. What are we? Nine? Mommy, he called me a name!! I know i used the same word to dscribe my best friend 5 minutes ago, but tHIS guy is different from me.

Their sensitivity is not my problem. I'm not responsible for how you interpret something. I'm only responsible for how I mean it. You'll notice thy nobody has written "n" on here, though it is certainly prevalent in culture... But nobody has a problem writing redneck or honky or cracker. MOSTLy because while certainly insulting, and often intended as such... They are merely words. Who cares

(05-28-2012 02:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  They constantly poked fun at themselves, hell the most successful jewish comedians are almost entirely self-depreciating and much of that is aimed at their jewish heritage.

1. That's stereotyping, remember how you libs hate that? But now it's OK.

2. Do you ever see Holocaust humor among Jews?