Depending on the points, it's looking like ETSU may not win it this year. The down year in basketball is killing their scores.

(04-23-2012 10:09 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Depending on the points, it's looking like ETSU may not win it this year. The down year in basketball is killing their scores.

I know the current athletic administraion is perfectly happy with mopping up all the minor sports and winning "all sports trophies". I want to win the minor sports as well but to me winning the all sports trophy should include at least one or more of 1) Basketball 2) Football 3)Baseball.
Our basketball and baseball programs are floundering and we do not even HAVE #2 above. Winning without one or more of those three means very little to me and I really do not know what "all sports trophies" mean with that type of winning. Those are hollow wins indeed.

well you just won men's tennis and men's track yesterday and it doesn't look like the A-Sun site has added those in yet. So that'll move you up I'd think.

We're dead solid last. Pathetic.

It'll be close, it used to not be close...

I just added up some stuff with a calculator and the only way ETSU doesn't win the men's race is if Upstate finishes alone in first in baseball and the Bucs come in alone in last...yet the Spartans are in fact currently in first and the Bucs are 9th of 10 and last in the loss column. So yeah, close.

The women's standings are going to end up in a near dead heat b/t Kennesaw State, UNF and Jacksonville, I think.

The overall title may depend on whether the A-Sun adds in the sand volleyball stuff. That's a new NCAA sport just this year that the A-Sun sponsored, but only the southern half of the league plays. All us Florida schools + Mercer. It is not listed in the all-sports standings page, but the A-Sun only announced they were doing it in January or something and they held it last weekend. UNF won.

So those points, if added, may push UNF just ahead of ETSU at the final gun, so to speak, unless your baseball and softball teams snap out of their funks very soon.

I can see why college sports fans don't get into this All-Sports Commissioner's Cup even though I like all the sports involved - if you have to use a calculator to figure out who won, it's hardly "sports" anymore, is it?

Winning the All Sports trophy is something ETSU makes sure they champion. It gives them justification that they're doing all the right things. For me I just don't agree with the philosophy at all, which in essence has ensured that I don't give them an money for anything, at all.

[quote='Buccaneerlover' pid='7813175' dateline='1335272395']
Winning the All Sports trophy is something ETSU makes sure they champion. It gives them justification that they're doing all the right things. For me I just don't agree with the philosophy at all, which in essence has ensured that I don't give them an money for anything, at all. [/quote

and so...

its this way of thinking that is at the root of the elimination of the football program and keeps pushing back any chance of its return.

its this way of thinking that has forced the administration to build the smaller, less expensive venues before an arena can even be thought about.

its this way of thinking that has the baseball stadium underfunded and behind schedule.

the more alumni and fans that take thier ball (money) and go home, the more difficult it is to build momentum and grow...

Taking the money and going home is the only way to send the message that the status quo is unacceptable. Not going to events and not giving money is the only voice fans/alums have. I'm not a millionaire by any stretch, but why would I invest my hard earned money into something I don't believe in/don't agree with. Not to mention it's a substandard product.
The arena isn't can't be thought about because Johnson City and ETSU can't have a drink together and talk about working together. Same applies with the underfunded baseball stadium, which if they didn't have the cash in hand to build it, then they shouldn't have started the project.

Here's a question for the board:
Would you spend money on a product you feel is substandard from a company that you don't feel operates in a manner that sits well with your belief system? That's where I'm coming from. It's like Dodge/Chrysler, they have a substandard product and I didn't agree with the bailout they got. So why in the hell would I go buy a Dodge when I can buy a Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, or Volkswagen? Companies that don't produce substandard products (Prius accelerator excluded) and while Ford was forced to take the bailout money, they set it in an account and the first eligible day they were allowed to pay it back they paid the government in full?
The product stinks, the athletic director and senior women's administrator are largely substandard. This isn't a football thing, it's past that. This is an issue of seeing the same mistakes made over and over, whether it be half built facilities, botched halftime promotions and now substandard products in men's and women's basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, women's soccer, and women's track. You want people to invest based on on field expectations not being met, off field/court expectations certainly not being met (see Tommy Hubbard's tantrum, JC Ward's alleged activities, to name a couple) not to forget the softball field still doesn't have a pressbox, we're building tennis courts when ETSU still pays rent to use the track at Science Hill? No, I'm not going to give money to that, and why would anyone in their right mind other than needing a tax write off, desperately.
For me, it's nothing to do with football at this point, I don't want it to come back until vast changes in attitude, philosophy and the way things are done there are made.
In short, ETSU athletics at this time is a bad investment.

(04-23-2012 04:57 PM)HatterFan Wrote:  I just added up some stuff with a calculator and the only way ETSU doesn't win the men's race is if Upstate finishes alone in first in baseball and the Bucs come in alone in last...yet the Spartans are in fact currently in first and the Bucs are 9th of 10 and last in the loss column. So yeah, close.

The women's standings are going to end up in a near dead heat b/t Kennesaw State, UNF and Jacksonville, I think.

The overall title may depend on whether the A-Sun adds in the sand volleyball stuff. That's a new NCAA sport just this year that the A-Sun sponsored, but only the southern half of the league plays. All us Florida schools + Mercer. It is not listed in the all-sports standings page, but the A-Sun only announced they were doing it in January or something and they held it last weekend. UNF won.

So those points, if added, may push UNF just ahead of ETSU at the final gun, so to speak, unless your baseball and softball teams snap out of their funks very soon.

I can see why college sports fans don't get into this All-Sports Commissioner's Cup even though I like all the sports involved - if you have to use a calculator to figure out who won, it's hardly "sports" anymore, is it?

Here are the standings for the All Sports Trophy:
1. ETSU 276
2. UNF 252
3. KSU 228
4. Belmont 211.5

The all-sports race is off of REGULAR season finish and does not include postseason UNLESS that sport (track/golf/etc.) does not have regular season standings. It is then by order of finish in the conference tournament championships.

Sand Volleyball did not count, but it should. Its an NCAA sponsored sport and the A-Sun did have a conference championship.

It really comes down to how high UNF finishes versus how low ETSU finishes in both baseball and softball. KSU still has a shot as well.

(04-24-2012 12:40 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Taking the money and going home is the only way to send the message that the status quo is unacceptable. Not going to events and not giving money is the only voice fans/alums have. I'm not a millionaire by any stretch, but why would I invest my hard earned money into something I don't believe in/don't agree with. Not to mention it's a substandard product.
The arena isn't can't be thought about because Johnson City and ETSU can't have a drink together and talk about working together. Same applies with the underfunded baseball stadium, which if they didn't have the cash in hand to build it, then they shouldn't have started the project.

Here's a question for the board:
Would you spend money on a product you feel is substandard from a company that you don't feel operates in a manner that sits well with your belief system? That's where I'm coming from. It's like Dodge/Chrysler, they have a substandard product and I didn't agree with the bailout they got. So why in the hell would I go buy a Dodge when I can buy a Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, or Volkswagen? Companies that don't produce substandard products (Prius accelerator excluded) and while Ford was forced to take the bailout money, they set it in an account and the first eligible day they were allowed to pay it back they paid the government in full?
The product stinks, the athletic director and senior women's administrator are largely substandard. This isn't a football thing, it's past that. This is an issue of seeing the same mistakes made over and over, whether it be half built facilities, botched halftime promotions and now substandard products in men's and women's basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, women's soccer, and women's track. You want people to invest based on on field expectations not being met, off field/court expectations certainly not being met (see Tommy Hubbard's tantrum, JC Ward's alleged activities, to name a couple) not to forget the softball field still doesn't have a pressbox, we're building tennis courts when ETSU still pays rent to use the track at Science Hill? No, I'm not going to give money to that, and why would anyone in their right mind other than needing a tax write off, desperately.
For me, it's nothing to do with football at this point, I don't want it to come back until vast changes in attitude, philosophy and the way things are done there are made.
In short, ETSU athletics at this time is a bad investment.

For some reason, I have the sudden urge to buy a Ford and drive to Boone for a football game.

The problem in Boone is their basketball is awful, but they have built/upgraded their facilities on time, on budget, and built the way they're supposed to. Granted it doesn't hurt having Larry Stone (COO of Lowe's) on their board, but it's all about approach and mentality.
Al Bundy drove a Dodge.

i know what you are saying lover...but this is not a car, or a grill, or your favorite pro team. this is etsu. and for things to get built, teams to have sucess, and fans enjoying a real "game day" experience...its going to take money. you can show dissent and still give. the more you give, the more your dissent can be heard. what if you gathered all the dissenters and threw all your money in a pot and said to the president..."you can have this, but you gotta make changes"? thats how you establish a voice. otherwise its just complaining about the shortcomings because those that give are not giving enough. typical in politics as well...

Slappy, your point is valid...and so is lover's. And thats ok. We're all die hards here or else we wouldn't be wasting precious time reading this board. There isn't a lot to cheer about these days as a true Buc fan and I think that goes without saying. We don't give up because for some crazy reason we are hoping for good things to happen. As for the money, I believe I should have a voice simply because I am an ETSU alumnus. The same applies (in my opinion) to fans and those who live here. Dave disagrees. When I made legitimate (non provocative) points to him in 2003, he basically said that i didnt matter and told me "who would know better whats best for ETSU athletics than those who were charged with its well being". He has repeatedly said that those who want changes should "get out your checkbook". The fact is, I am in a much better position to give money today than I was 9 years ago, but I am reluctant to give to a department that is run by an oblivious, condescending tyrant. Dave Mullins has alienated the fanbase. Its an issue that Noland has to recognize and address before we can move forward, which is what every ETSU fan wants.

It brings up a valid point but again, I think there's a real trust issue with what would happen with the money. Say for instance a separate 501c foundation were esablished of donors, alums, disgruntled fans, etc... And they did raise the money for whatever at ETSU. Are these same people going to truly trust the administration enough to live up to made promises, no matter what those may be?
Using athletics as an example, it's hard to go to the a.d. with money and say ETSU can have this if you quit. Perhaps going to the president might work, but with the same slackjaw morons who have botched things time and again (Dr. Nicks included) is our still wet behind the ears president going to heed the advice?
I get where you're going, but there's so many issues involved relating to burnt bridges, bad relationships, etc... I don't even think money can be discussed yet. Some wounds have to be mended and bridges built. That's why I keep mentioning alumni events in major cities where concentrations of ETSU alums are.
ETSU is going to have to show the return on investment, because whether people want to look at it that way, it's an investment when you donate. What's the return? Buildings in your name? Season tickets? Priority parking? Results on the field/court? The mentality has to change, ETSU can't continue to function as a charity case that keeps bumbling facilities, big time promotions and winning in the one sport people will invest in if the product is good. ETSU athletics, college athletics is a product. And while you may not agree with that, the folks who can afford to write the checks see it that way.
So I tell you what, here's an open challenge to ANYONE on this board. You're the director of fundraising for BASA. Give me your best reasoning WHY we should donate to ETSU athletics. Anything is fair game. Let's hear it. Hell, it's the offseason, what else are we going to do?

lover and 90, all valid points. its quite the conundrum.

we should give because its our alma mater. we cannot go to another "bigger conference" without facilities and a well rounded athletics program. i dont put any stock in the all sports trophy, but if etsu has won it in each of its years in the asun, that looks good moving forward. etsu may well win this years all sports trophy with our "major" sports being way down by our standards. that says something. our "minor" sports carried us this year, and to another conference that is shopping, its better that etsu wins it than finishing middle of the pack. this administration, as bad as it is, still has accomplished some good things. as a whole its still producing positive results in many ways. is it where we want it? no way. lets make it better.

Yep, and it'll continue to be. 90 clearly would give to the university, but without speaking for him it appears that in his case there's a little bit of disenfranchisement coupled with plain old "I don't trust you with my money" syndrome. It's a big hurdle to clear for Dr. Noland.
And off the court/field, he has a bigger issue. How many alums out there feel that ETSU has "gotten enough of my money?" So many times you'll hear stories of alums who are filling out graduation paperwork only to be told they have this class, or that class left even though they followed their advisor to the letter? Or as in the parking situation, the campus police are really so lazy that they write you a parking ticket for backing into a spot? There are things that happen there that has nothing to do with athletics that leave a bad taste in an alum's mouth. The fact Paul Tudico hasn't been ran out of town for the way he belittles students and is disrespectful to the point of borderline hate speech at times is egregious. I had his class for two weeks, and it's not his values/beliefs that made me to this day want to whip his ass, but the way he talks to other students. Dr. Noland also brought up graduation rates/student loans, etc... The underlying theme there is getting students in, get them out on time with a quality degree so they leave HAPPY. Their memories of college are not just about partying and fooling around with sorostitutes, but actual fond memories of classes, professors, administrators, etc... I believe he gets that, but his problem still remains that people don't like/trust Dave Mullins, Barbie Breedlove, the graduation Nazi, etc...
I'll give you another example. Any alum from 2007 back probably ran across Jablonski's 17 weeks of hell in Stats class. I respect him, and think he's a nice guy, his class was the hardest I've ever taken. I can respect him, and I trust the man. I would give him money. On the field/course, I don't necessarily like Fred Warren. He's kind of weird, I think he's probably a cat person. I respect what he's accomplished and would give him money. Kind of the "he's an ******* but he's our *******" mentality.
Just trying to make you understand where I know I'm coming from, and I believe other people do too.
Hypothetically, if he retired Dave and just repurposed Barbie out of athletics (firing her would result in a lawsuit, though based on women's sports performances it could be justified) I wonder what would change.
I don't envy what Dr. Noland has to do, repair a splintered alumni/community/fan base. Build a level of trust that simply isn't there. SHOW that it's not the same bumbling screwed up dumpster fire clusterf@ck that it has been since the 70's, then start asking for money. Relying on people to give just because won't happen. Again for me, it has nothing to do with football. If he can rebuild the trust, build/mend some bridges not just with Johnson City, but the entire region from Morristown to the Mountain Empire, not to mention reconnecting those of us who aren't there anymore, he'll get the money, and all these projects will get taken care of.

(04-24-2012 09:57 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  [quote='Buccaneerlover' pid='7813175' dateline='1335272395']
Winning the All Sports trophy is something ETSU makes sure they champion. It gives them justification that they're doing all the right things. For me I just don't agree with the philosophy at all, which in essence has ensured that I don't give them an money for anything, at all. [/quote

and so...

its this way of thinking that is at the root of the elimination of the football program and keeps pushing back any chance of its return.

its this way of thinking that has forced the administration to build the smaller, less expensive venues before an arena can even be thought about.

its this way of thinking that has the baseball stadium underfunded and behind schedule.

the more alumni and fans that take thier ball (money) and go home, the more difficult it is to build momentum and grow...

And, as you clearly illustrate, it is the mindset of ETSU athletic administration and their apologists to blame the fans, media, and whatever else they can (underground rocks come to mind) for their own shortcomings.

(04-25-2012 08:03 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 09:57 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  [quote='Buccaneerlover' pid='7813175' dateline='1335272395']
Winning the All Sports trophy is something ETSU makes sure they champion. It gives them justification that they're doing all the right things. For me I just don't agree with the philosophy at all, which in essence has ensured that I don't give them an money for anything, at all. [/quote

and so...

its this way of thinking that is at the root of the elimination of the football program and keeps pushing back any chance of its return.

its this way of thinking that has forced the administration to build the smaller, less expensive venues before an arena can even be thought about.

its this way of thinking that has the baseball stadium underfunded and behind schedule.

the more alumni and fans that take thier ball (money) and go home, the more difficult it is to build momentum and grow...

And, as you clearly illustrate, it is the mindset of ETSU athletic administration and their apologists to blame the fans, media, and whatever else they can (underground rocks come to mind) for their own shortcomings.

rriiiiiiiiggghhtt... thanks for that keen insight scoop.

You're welcome.

I mean, I can't be as brilliant as posting your inside information about Murry Bartow going to Samford, or mastering capitalization skills, but hey.

I know you relish in pointing out my mistakes, like pointing out at his age he isn't going anywhere except maybe as an assistant to a major program, but hey, you have your sources.

Stop bending the shaft, Slappy. Stop bending the shaft.

(04-26-2012 10:34 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  You're welcome.

I mean, I can't be as brilliant as posting your inside information about Murry Bartow going to Samford, or mastering capitalization skills, but hey.

I know you relish in pointing out my mistakes, like pointing out at his age he isn't going anywhere except maybe as an assistant to a major program, but hey, you have your sources.

Stop bending the shaft, Slappy. Stop bending the shaft.

it was alot closer to happening (my position) than being totally out of the question (your position)...

you need to get better sources scoop...

i dont need to point out your mistakes...you step on your bottom lip all by yourself.