(04-16-2012 07:14 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 07:05 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 05:20 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  Have your voter registration card when you vote. Require that, if you want ID's for safeguarding then go for it. Forcing people to pay for the ID's if they get them just for voting is a poll tax, which is illegal.

I thought Dems loved taxes. I thought taxes were patriotic. Where's the "shared sacrifice"?

I doubt anyone "loves" taxes. Taxes are patriotic, they support your country. What's not patriotic, though, is using those taxes to single people out, either to keep them from something or give them extra. FYI taxes keep government running. No tax = no government.

Yeah? So why the problem here?

Has anybody actually found anyone who cannot vote because he or she doesn't have an ID? The horror stories I'm reading are like the UT student who can't vote in Austin using his California drivers license. Ummm, dude, if you have, like, a California drivers license, shouldn't you be voting in, like, California?

Given how little one can actually DO in our society without an ID, I seriously wonder how many people truly lack ID. I'd be in favor of free ID for voting to anyone who signs, under penalty of perjury, an affidavit saying they couldn't afford one. I'd also favor a mandatory life sentence for anyone who lies about it.

(04-17-2012 07:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Has anybody actually found anyone who cannot vote because he or she doesn't have an ID? The horror stories I'm reading are like the UT student who can't vote in Austin using his California drivers license. Ummm, dude, if you have, like, a California drivers license, shouldn't you be voting in, like, California?

Given how little one can actually DO in our society without an ID, I seriously wonder how many people truly lack ID. I'd be in favor of free ID for voting to anyone who signs, under penalty of perjury, an affidavit saying they couldn't afford one.

I'm not. People like to talk about their "rights" but no successful society was ever established that didn't require some sort of contributions from its citizens.

$7 (every 4 years or so) isn't that much of an expectation from citizens. And if you won't pony that up, you're really not serious about being a good citizen.

I don't remember seeing a monetary requirement to vote in our Constitution.

You're not required to buy an ID to vote. You should show your ID that you are required to have just to go about your day to day business.

(04-17-2012 08:37 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 07:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Has anybody actually found anyone who cannot vote because he or she doesn't have an ID? The horror stories I'm reading are like the UT student who can't vote in Austin using his California drivers license. Ummm, dude, if you have, like, a California drivers license, shouldn't you be voting in, like, California?
Given how little one can actually DO in our society without an ID, I seriously wonder how many people truly lack ID. I'd be in favor of free ID for voting to anyone who signs, under penalty of perjury, an affidavit saying they couldn't afford one.

I'm not. People like to talk about their "rights" but no successful society was ever established that didn't require some sort of contributions from its citizens.
$7 (every 4 years or so) isn't that much of an expectation from citizens. And if you won't pony that up, you're really not serious about being a good citizen.

No, but if the only way to get out of paying the $7 is to sign an affidavit that you can't afford the $7, and if it turns out that's a lie then you go to jail for life, then I think it would work just fine.

(04-17-2012 08:42 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I don't remember seeing a monetary requirement to vote in our Constitution.

Logical fail. Funny how that happens a lot with you.

(04-17-2012 09:00 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-17-2012 08:42 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I don't remember seeing a monetary requirement to vote in our Constitution.

Logical fail. Funny how that happens a lot with you.

Can you then show me where it says there is a monetary requirement to vote in the Constitution? I would appreciate it. THanks.

This is a silly argument, people. $7?? Those of you against ids are just making up things to be mad about

There are so many simple ways to manage this I can't see straight.

1) make them free to people with agi's below some number like 15k, because if you can't find $7 every 4-10 years, then you probably aren't really making that little... Because you need I'd for virtually all state and federal support

2) provide them with applications for benefits. Again, they must produce the supporting documents... Why not give it to them when you give them the EBT card or the check, you know, so they can cash it??

Owl, you know I love ya, but that is just asking for some martyr to get convicted... Go to jail... And then argue about how crowded everything is, how were spending a million dollars because he wouldn't spend $7 etc etc etc.... I realize rational people don't think like that, but plenty of people aren't rational.

$7 for an ID is not a poll tax any more than $1.75 for a dozen eggs is because you don't pay it every time you vote... Yet without food or an ID, you can't vote. I'm not debating the point about it being a potential issue for an exceptionally small number of people... I am merely pointing out that because the cost is not tied to the event, it is not a poll tax.... It costs money to get a certified copy of your birth certificate as well.

Do you guy's get the point that this is a manufactured controversy?

(04-17-2012 12:26 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Do you guy's get the point that this is a manufactured controversy?

Which part? The costif the Id or the benefit of it?

(04-16-2012 05:20 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  Have your voter registration card when you vote. Require that, if you want ID's for safeguarding then go for it. Forcing people to pay for the ID's if they get them just for voting is a poll tax, which is illegal. ID's are good for voting. I'd use mine even if there wasn't a law requiring me to, I don't want someone else voting in my place.

So you can force people to buy insurance and prove it but you can't force people to pay a few bucks to prove they're citizens. Gotcha.

(04-16-2012 08:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would go for voter ID's too. As long as they are provided to people who can't afford them. Nothing is more important to a democracy than the perception of a fair election. I think it's a manufactured controversy but the other side is up in arms about it. So we all should try to find a way to address their concerns.

This.

This is what matters here, don't let this manufactured outrage confuse you here; the right *EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN* has to vote in our system is paramount, and second to any other concern.

(04-21-2012 12:38 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 08:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would go for voter ID's too. As long as they are provided to people who can't afford them. Nothing is more important to a democracy than the perception of a fair election. I think it's a manufactured controversy but the other side is up in arms about it. So we all should try to find a way to address their concerns.

This.

This is what matters here, don't let this manufactured outrage confuse you here; the right *EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN* has to vote in our system is paramount, and second to any other concern.

Citizen being the operative word in your statement...

(04-21-2012 07:40 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 12:38 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 08:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would go for voter ID's too. As long as they are provided to people who can't afford them. Nothing is more important to a democracy than the perception of a fair election. I think it's a manufactured controversy but the other side is up in arms about it. So we all should try to find a way to address their concerns.

This.

This is what matters here, don't let this manufactured outrage confuse you here; the right *EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN* has to vote in our system is paramount, and second to any other concern.

Citizen being the operative word in your statement...

No, EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN is the operative phrase in my statement. Nothing is more important in our democracy than this, as it all rests on the belief that our government is elected by the people. Make free voting ID's, give people multiple chances to get them, and take away all doubt in anyones mind. This is a bipartisan issue, and shouldn't be a problem for any true patriot.

(04-21-2012 11:20 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No, EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN is the operative phrase in my statement. Nothing is more important in our democracy than this, as it all rests on the belief that our government is elected by the people. Make free voting ID's, give people multiple chances to get them, and take away all doubt in anyones mind. This is a bipartisan issue, and shouldn't be a problem for any true patriot.

I don't have a problem with this. I would add one more thing. Make voter fraud a first-degree felony with a mandatory life sentence.

It's only a problem for the left.

(04-21-2012 11:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 11:20 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No, EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN is the operative phrase in my statement. Nothing is more important in our democracy than this, as it all rests on the belief that our government is elected by the people. Make free voting ID's, give people multiple chances to get them, and take away all doubt in anyones mind. This is a bipartisan issue, and shouldn't be a problem for any true patriot.

I don't have a problem with this. I would add one more thing. Make voter fraud a first-degree felony with a mandatory life sentence.

I agree with the felony, not the life sentence (mostly because I don't want to spend that kind of money to keep them locked up). I do think that any government official convicted of bribery should be treason IMO, off with their heads.