"Could" is a pretty big word.

(03-26-2012 12:55 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  Maybe that they can actually be competitive on the field? They have somewhat of a football pulse in addition to the national name already mentioned.

Plus they would get to foster some rivalries with SDSU/Navy in a BCS environment with much more exposure, instead of the previous....arrangement.

Fresno has been more competitive on the field the last decade than AF has. I think Fresno/SD St and Fresno/Boise would draw better ratings and actually be competitive. Fresno has actually beaten current Big East members Rutgers and Cincy on top of beating fellow BCS members Illinois (twice), UCLA (twice), Kansas St. (twice), GA Tech (twice), Washington, Virginia and Oregon St. Thats at least two from every BCS conference except the SEC over the last ten years.

Fresno is the way to go. Boise's recruiting would benefit from a second CA school in their division as well as building interest for both Fresno and SD in their home state. Look at the make up of California CFB. USC/UCLA, Cal/Stanford and we can have SD/Fresno. Works much better that way.

Fresno is the way to go.

AFA is a perfect football only candidate- Western team in a populous state (by west standards), national interest, shown it can compete even with limitations of being a military academy. Would be a great add, IMO.

(03-26-2012 12:28 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  8 FB now and 7 if they lose AF. They should just add the 5 remaining western WAC members. I mean why not? USU, SJ St, New Mexico St, Idaho and Texas st. Grow to 12 and have a championship game.

The WAC can then focus on forming a non-FB league.

I don't think they should stop at 12. Just absorb the WAC for a 14-team football, 16 team basketball conference.

West
1. Hawaii (football-only)
2. Fresno
3. SJSU
4. Idaho
5. Nevada
6. UNLV
7. Utah State

East
1. UNM
2. NMSU
3. Texas St.
4. UTSA
5. Colorado St.
6. Wyoming
7. Louisiana Tech

That's 13 all-sports members. Add Denver, Seattle, and UT-Arlington to have 16 all-sports encompassing a number of major markets. You'd think that'd be preferable to the nationwide alliance.

Air Force has winning records over both CSU and Fresno. It has better attendance than both,it has a better known tv name for the tv contract. It has beaten CSU six straight years. For a football only Air Force is better option Thanthe other two.

(03-26-2012 02:45 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Air Force has winning records over both CSU and Fresno. It has better attendance than both,it has a better known tv name for the tv contract. It has beaten CSU six straight years. For a football only Air Force is better option Thanthe other two.

Agree. I'm starting to feel Fresno as the last western add over UNLV or others though, excepting BYU obviously. I'm hoping that AFA joining will be another carrot to get BYU in.

(03-26-2012 12:31 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Oh and AF would mean the divisions would most likely look like this.

East
Rutgers
UConn
Temple
USF
UCF
UofL
Cincy

West
Boise
SD St
AF
Houston
SMU
Navy
Memphis

That's a very nice conference and one that will command the top range of the TV money estimates.

Not knocking Fresno. They are a great choice, and my 3rd pick behind BYU and Air Force.

But Air Force draws better at home (37K 3-year average vs. Fresno at 32K). And Air Force has been a better team recently. The last 3 years, Air Force has finished 46th on average in the Massey Composite. Fresno has finished 73rd on average. Air Force has finished well ahead of Fresno each of the last 3 years.

Finally, Air Force is a bowl/TV/political/academic darling. Hell, having the AF/Navy game as a Big East conference game would be awesome.

(03-26-2012 02:45 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Air Force has winning records over both CSU and Fresno. It has better attendance than both,it has a better known tv name for the tv contract. It has beaten CSU six straight years. For a football only Air Force is better option Thanthe other two.

I disagree. AF has a much lower ceiling than Fresno. If we are talking longterm Fresno is the way to go. They have legit rivals in both SD St and Boise. Yes Boise had a great turn out this year when AF came to town but i think thats because it was new and different. After ten years of Boise beating them down will the fan interest still be that high? I don't think so.

The BCS (at the time) schools AF has beaten in the same ten year period.

GA Tech, ND, Washington, North Western (twice) and Cal.

Fresno has been more consistent than AF and more competitive on the field. Yes they just fired their coach but have way more on the field upside in the long run. I mean Fresno can actually challenge for the conference and division title! AF will always be an also-ran.

(03-26-2012 02:51 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 12:31 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Oh and AF would mean the divisions would most likely look like this.

East
Rutgers
UConn
Temple
USF
UCF
UofL
Cincy

West
Boise
SD St
AF
Houston
SMU
Navy
Memphis

That's a very nice conference and one that will command the top range of the TV money estimates.

Not knocking Fresno. They are a great choice, and my 3rd pick behind BYU and Air Force.

But Air Force draws better at home (37K 3-year average vs. Fresno at 32K). And Air Force has been a better team recently. The last 3 years, Air Force has finished 46th on average in the Massey Composite. Fresno has finished 73rd on average. Air Force has finished well ahead of Fresno each of the last 3 years.

Finally, Air Force is a bowl/TV/political/academic darling. Hell, having the AF/Navy game as a Big East conference game would be awesome.

AF is Navy's AT BEST third biggest rival, while Fresno could be Sd St's and Boise's #1 rival.

(03-26-2012 02:28 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 12:55 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  Maybe that they can actually be competitive on the field? They have somewhat of a football pulse in addition to the national name already mentioned.

Plus they would get to foster some rivalries with SDSU/Navy in a BCS environment with much more exposure, instead of the previous....arrangement.

Fresno has been more competitive on the field the last decade than AF has. I think Fresno/SD St and Fresno/Boise would draw better ratings and actually be competitive. Fresno has actually beaten current Big East members Rutgers and Cincy on top of beating fellow BCS members Illinois (twice), UCLA (twice), Kansas St. (twice), GA Tech (twice), Washington, Virginia and Oregon St. Thats at least two from every BCS conference except the SEC over the last ten years.

Fresno is the way to go. Boise's recruiting would benefit from a second CA school in their division as well as building interest for both Fresno and SD in their home state. Look at the make up of California CFB. USC/UCLA, Cal/Stanford and we can have SD/Fresno. Works much better that way.

Fresno is the way to go.

Sorry but CSU is not in the same universe as AFA!
Fresno State is a solid program but not in the same planetary system of AFA!
It's all about the $$$$!
It's all about the market!
Not even debatable!
I rest my case here on Earth!

(03-26-2012 02:58 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 02:51 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 12:31 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Oh and AF would mean the divisions would most likely look like this.

East
Rutgers
UConn
Temple
USF
UCF
UofL
Cincy

West
Boise
SD St
AF
Houston
SMU
Navy
Memphis

That's a very nice conference and one that will command the top range of the TV money estimates.

Not knocking Fresno. They are a great choice, and my 3rd pick behind BYU and Air Force.

But Air Force draws better at home (37K 3-year average vs. Fresno at 32K). And Air Force has been a better team recently. The last 3 years, Air Force has finished 46th on average in the Massey Composite. Fresno has finished 73rd on average. Air Force has finished well ahead of Fresno each of the last 3 years.

Finally, Air Force is a bowl/TV/political/academic darling. Hell, having the AF/Navy game as a Big East conference game would be awesome.

AF is Navy's AT BEST third biggest rival, while Fresno could be Sd St's and Boise's #1 rival.

Invite them both.

I am sure that the BE will add whomever they can get the most benefit from Fresno or Air Force. Even if it is not Fresno State added to the BE which would be disappointing only in the fact that we got over looked once again it wont make or fanbase or make or team less determined to play the best and do our best! Good luck to the Big East should Air Force get the invite and not Fresno State!

(03-26-2012 02:59 PM)NewEngland-1 Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 02:28 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 12:55 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  Maybe that they can actually be competitive on the field? They have somewhat of a football pulse in addition to the national name already mentioned.

Plus they would get to foster some rivalries with SDSU/Navy in a BCS environment with much more exposure, instead of the previous....arrangement.

Fresno has been more competitive on the field the last decade than AF has. I think Fresno/SD St and Fresno/Boise would draw better ratings and actually be competitive. Fresno has actually beaten current Big East members Rutgers and Cincy on top of beating fellow BCS members Illinois (twice), UCLA (twice), Kansas St. (twice), GA Tech (twice), Washington, Virginia and Oregon St. Thats at least two from every BCS conference except the SEC over the last ten years.

Fresno is the way to go. Boise's recruiting would benefit from a second CA school in their division as well as building interest for both Fresno and SD in their home state. Look at the make up of California CFB. USC/UCLA, Cal/Stanford and we can have SD/Fresno. Works much better that way.

Fresno is the way to go.

Sorry but CSU is not in the same universe as AFA!
Fresno State is a solid program but not in the same planetary system of AFA!
It's all about the $$$$!
It's all about the market!
Not even debatable!
I rest my case here on Earth!

I still don't understand how Air Force with good teams can only draw 28,000 to games in a huge military town like San Diego?

Looks like AF only draws an extra 4,000 or so to a San Diego game.

I guess the answer I am looking for is if Air Force is such a national draw, how come they can't increase San Diego Attendance by more than 4,000 a game in a huge military town.

Something isn't matching up.

I thought this was already known? That if the Big East added Navy it would sweeten the pot for Air Force.

I too would have preceded Fresno as being another California program to base recruiting not just for FB but for BB as well as it would make the BE brand better known to the H.S. coaches out there.
Still in shock from seeing all Male Navy cheerleaders the last time Navy came to Louisville. Hope AFA has Female ones if They get the invite. But both give a Great Service to our Country. Thanks!

(03-26-2012 02:28 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Fresno has been more competitive on the field the last decade than AF has.

Now I think highly of Fresno. But this statement is misleading if not inaccurate. In the Massey Composite, Air Force has finished the season rated higher than Fresno in EACH of the last SIX years.

Over the last 6 years, the average Air Force finish is 51.3. The average Fresno finish is 71.3.

(03-26-2012 03:03 PM)SteveAztec Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 02:59 PM)NewEngland-1 Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 02:28 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 12:55 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  Maybe that they can actually be competitive on the field? They have somewhat of a football pulse in addition to the national name already mentioned.

Plus they would get to foster some rivalries with SDSU/Navy in a BCS environment with much more exposure, instead of the previous....arrangement.

Fresno has been more competitive on the field the last decade than AF has. I think Fresno/SD St and Fresno/Boise would draw better ratings and actually be competitive. Fresno has actually beaten current Big East members Rutgers and Cincy on top of beating fellow BCS members Illinois (twice), UCLA (twice), Kansas St. (twice), GA Tech (twice), Washington, Virginia and Oregon St. Thats at least two from every BCS conference except the SEC over the last ten years.

Fresno is the way to go. Boise's recruiting would benefit from a second CA school in their division as well as building interest for both Fresno and SD in their home state. Look at the make up of California CFB. USC/UCLA, Cal/Stanford and we can have SD/Fresno. Works much better that way.

Fresno is the way to go.

Sorry but CSU is not in the same universe as AFA!
Fresno State is a solid program but not in the same planetary system of AFA!
It's all about the $$$$!
It's all about the market!
Not even debatable!
I rest my case here on Earth!

I still don't understand how Air Force with good teams can only draw 28,000 to games in a huge military town like San Diego?

Looks like AF only draws an extra 4,000 or so to a San Diego game.

I guess the answer I am looking for is if Air Force is such a national draw, how come they can't increase San Diego Attendance by more than 4,000 a game in a huge military town.

Something isn't matching up.

Speaking as former Air Force, the AFA is an officer academy, the vast majority is enlisted and only have a passing interest in how they are doing.

(03-26-2012 03:44 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 02:28 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Fresno has been more competitive on the field the last decade than AF has.

Now I think highly of Fresno. But this statement is misleading if not inaccurate. In the Massey Composite, Air Force has finished the season rated higher than Fresno in EACH of the last SIX years.

Over the last 6 years, the average Air Force finish is 51.3. The average Fresno finish is 71.3.

Compare the teams the two schools played. Fresno has had an anyone anywhere anytime mentality and played WAAAAY more big time OOC games than AF. Also AF is a one trick pony. They will always run the option. Fresno can run any system they want because they can get kids who can actually play FB!

(03-26-2012 12:49 PM)SteveAztec Wrote:  Exactly what is the argument that Air Force should be the next school?

I get that it is a national name. But they don't draw good in person anywhere. They came to San Diego year after year with good teams and the attendance at Qualcomm was anywhere from 25,000 to 35,000. It isn't like they draw 50,000 everywhere they go.

Navy has also been to Qualcomm in San Diego a couple of times. Yes, the Poinsettia Bowl drew 50,000, but the other Navy appearance drew about 27,000, and that was in one of the biggest Navy towns in the United States.

With a serious question here for all. What is it that Air Force brings to the table that is so important?

I don't think you'll find anyone out of the other realistic Big East candidates that's going to fill up opposing stadiums either, though. We're not talking about adding Notre Dame or Texas here. So, the national name IS important. In fact, it's actually MUCH more important than on-the-field results. We can cite statistics all day that the new Big East is actually better than the ACC on-the-field, but we should all know by now that isn't what's most important to the TV networks. Air Force is the single best brand name that isn't in one of the other 5 power conferences or an independent and brand names are what the Big East REALLY needs.

(03-26-2012 01:42 PM)The Brown Bull Wrote:  AFA still is going to have a national presense that Fresno State or Colorado State will never have. It is more than just attendance in the stands.

Although, AFA's attendance is about the same as Fresno State's and much better than Colorado State.

The opportunity to hold the tv rights for following games would probably trump anything Fresno State or Colorado State could bring to the table: Navy @ AFA, Army @ AFA and occasionally Notre Dame @ AFA.

The same probably goes for Navy and probably Army if the Big East could get them to change their minds. I don't think the Notre Dame relationship with the millitary schools cannot be overstated as to their value. I would suspect the ND @ Navy game will be the most valuable property under the new Big East unbrella. Probably more valuable than the ND @ Pitt game or the WVU-Pitt series.

As an aside, I am pretty sure an AFA game at USF or UCF would be much better attended than a Fresno State or Colorado State game due to the close proximity of MacDill and Patrick AFB nearby.

Agree.

Remember, its TV REVENUE which was the leading indicator in regards to which teams have/will be selected...and yes, as you noted, Air Force has a much larger national presence than schools like Fresno and Colorado St et al.

Also, even the last few years, Air Force has averaged more fans than Fresno (though not a major factor in regards to a Big East invite priorities):

2009 Attendance:
Fresno: 33,578
Air Force: 35,656

2010 Attendance
Fresno: 34,120
Air Force: 40,093

2011 Attendance
Fresno: 29,298
Air Force: 35,305

Finally, Air Force hasn't played a football game in the State of Florida (regular season or bowl game) since Sept 1968 when they played Florida in Tampa.

Exposure for the Air Force Academy in FLA every now and then would probably be a "good thing".