(05-09-2012 10:03 PM)subflea Wrote:  Ask in three years when these guys who are freshman and high school seniors have actually been in the program a couple of years.

So you menat the guys that are still in high school as one of the classes? Way to throw the current guys under the bus. Cleary may be a nice guy but it isn't worth trying to blame everything on the sohomore, junior and senior classes. Again I will say player development should be added to the list of things Cleary has not done well. That is his responsibility isn't it?

UC has had very few good seasons under Cleary. Until this year they at least made the Big East tournament a few years in a row and were somewhat competitive in the league. They have never made the NCAA tournament under him - coming very close at least once in the Big East and maybe once in CUSA. But this year has been a complete embarrassment. For a coach that has been at a school as long as he has to take such a huge step backward - you really have to question the state of the program.

If UC only wants to be occasionally competitive and not lose money, then why did they build such a nice stadium? College baseball looks like it is a growing sport - there are games on ESPN most every day/night now. It would be good if UC could become a part of it.

(05-10-2012 11:54 AM)ruffles Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 10:03 PM)subflea Wrote:  Ask in three years when these guys who are freshman and high school seniors have actually been in the program a couple of years.

So you menat the guys that are still in high school as one of the classes? Way to throw the current guys under the bus. Cleary may be a nice guy but it isn't worth trying to blame everything on the sohomore, junior and senior classes. Again I will say player development should be added to the list of things Cleary has not done well. That is his responsibility isn't it?

Really it is only the senior class that has been a disappointment. The JUCO guys brought in last year never made the improvement you usually expect in the 2nd year. Saylor, Vandenhuevel, Spence, and Mergen have all been underwhelming. A lot more was expected from all of them. T.J. Jones has had a solid career, but unfortunately has struggled with health issues the last two seasons. Braden Kline has struggled this year after 3 years of steady improvement. Kiley Jones was never a D-1 quality player.

The junior class has been fine and has developed over their time here. Proctor has gotten better, Gentile has become very consistent. Now that the Isler as a closer experiment is over, he looks great. Strenge has been solid the last 3 years. The addition of J.P. Jackson has been a great as well.

The sophomore class isn't bad either. Glass is hitting the ball more consistently and the only numbers down for him are RBI, which has a lot more to do with guys not getting on base in front of him. Ryan Quinn went from being an afterthought to being a more regular player. Matt Williams is the only real disappointment, and as bad as he has been, his numbers are the same as a year ago.

So the only place where development has struggled has been with the current seniors who are in their 2nd year on the team.

(05-10-2012 02:47 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(05-10-2012 11:54 AM)ruffles Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 10:03 PM)subflea Wrote:  Ask in three years when these guys who are freshman and high school seniors have actually been in the program a couple of years.

So you menat the guys that are still in high school as one of the classes? Way to throw the current guys under the bus. Cleary may be a nice guy but it isn't worth trying to blame everything on the sohomore, junior and senior classes. Again I will say player development should be added to the list of things Cleary has not done well. That is his responsibility isn't it?

Really it is only the senior class that has been a disappointment. The JUCO guys brought in last year never made the improvement you usually expect in the 2nd year. Saylor, Vandenhuevel, Spence, and Mergen have all been underwhelming. A lot more was expected from all of them. T.J. Jones has had a solid career, but unfortunately has struggled with health issues the last two seasons. Braden Kline has struggled this year after 3 years of steady improvement. Kiley Jones was never a D-1 quality player.

The junior class has been fine and has developed over their time here. Proctor has gotten better, Gentile has become very consistent. Now that the Isler as a closer experiment is over, he looks great. Strenge has been solid the last 3 years. The addition of J.P. Jackson has been a great as well.

The sophomore class isn't bad either. Glass is hitting the ball more consistently and the only numbers down for him are RBI, which has a lot more to do with guys not getting on base in front of him. Ryan Quinn went from being an afterthought to being a more regular player. Matt Williams is the only real disappointment, and as bad as he has been, his numbers are the same as a year ago.

So the only place where development has struggled has been with the current seniors who are in their 2nd year on the team.

What about the guys originally brought in as freshman that were replaced by the JUCO's brought in that haven't developed? Those guys count also don't they? JUCO can expect to get better can't they? Naming one or two guys in a class doesn't make that class good! It means the majority of the guys brought in for that class haven't panned out. That is on the coaching staff.

Strenge - he has been dropped from the weekend rotation - I would hardly call that good. Wasn't he a freshman all-american?

Matt Williams was not good defensively at 3B last year and not good defensively at SS this year. He also was not good defensively at SS in the summer league which was in Cincinnati. Really - it took 3/4 of a season to see he was not good defensively?

With the size of the roster being able to name 5 guys that have improved over a 4 year period hardly qualifies as good player development.

If I am not mistaken, there are 13 players from UC playing pro ball right now. Three in the majors and the rest in some level in the minor leagues. None were drafted out of high school. It's hard to say that UC does not develop players when you have those numbers over a 5-6 year time frame.

Strenge has been dealing with an injury. That is why he was pulled from the starting lineup.

Matt Williams committed 5 errors in 36 games over the summer, hardly an awful defensive performance at SS. It wasn't so much that it took 3/4 of the season to see that he was struggling defensively, it was more that they had no clue what J.P. Jackson had to offer defensively. Jackson hardly ever practices with the team.

The roster size may be large, but only 18 of those players came into this season with any game experience. Only 8 of those with more than just last year.

The track record says players develop in the program. 42 position players drafted or signed to free agent contracts under Cleary, only 7 of which were drafted coming out of high school.

In 2008, Harrison, Osterbrock, Spina, and Campana were all drafted, none were drafted out of high school.

This is probably going to be the first time since 2004 that no Bearcat is drafted. Although, I think Isler could be a very late pick.

Somebody may take a flyer on Proctor but he needs another year. Especially after his knee injury.

He definitely won't get drafted high enough to give him a signing bonus that he would leave for.

I thought Procter had a shot earlier in the year, but I have talked to a few scouts and they just don't seem that interested in him right now.

He has size and speed plus a decent arm. You cannot teach all those things.

They can teach him what base to throw to and how to hit for average and power.

I agree, and I think he would be a steal as a late round selection. The couple of scouts I spoke to just didn't seem all that interested. Another year, especially with the knee surgery, will do him some good.

OK - let's get back to discussing a college baseball program. If you guys want to be involved in a minor league baseball team I suggest taking your buddy with you and applying to a pro team. Maybe he should spend more time with the guys other than those who have the attributes that pro scouts desire and develop his entire team. As a college baseball program UC has not been successful with Cleary running the show. He has the benefit of one of the best college baseball facilities in the area and hasn't done a good job.

What do you want ruffles? The fact is that Cleary is likely going to be here for several more years, whether you like it or not. This season we will all agree has been awful. That being said, this is the first losing season in 5 years, and they are a year out from a 4th place conference finish.

You can ***** and moan about the team all you want, it isn't going to change anything.

I have been reading this particular thread all year and have never made a peep. Ruffles, you are disgusting. If you hate this team so much, go someplace else. If you don't hate this team, make constructive comments, but your constant bitching has gone far past the pale.

Amen. I think there are more people complaining in this thread than have ever actually gone to Large Marge Stadium.

Kids and I go to 5-6 UC games a season...I really enjoy it despite the fact that most years the weather sucks goat balls. Sort of a rite of spring with my boys who live and breath the game. I just think getting bent out of shape over this stuff is silly. Sorry. I'd definitely need more spring hobbies if it came to that for me. It's freaking college baseball in Cincinnati, folks. Enjoy the decent years. Support them during the down years if you want to. But even in the salad days its never going to be the SEC. Heck, not going to be the Florence Freedom, either.

(05-10-2012 09:41 PM)ctipton Wrote:  I have been reading this particular thread all year and have never made a peep. Ruffles, you are disgusting. If you hate this team so much, go someplace else. If you don't hate this team, make constructive comments, but your constant bitching has gone far past the pale.

10 year season ticket holder. Contributor to the program. Graduate of UC along with 3 other family members. 2 members of our family have played college baseball so I see or have experienced what other programs in this area have been able to produce. I personally know some of the players and have watched them play many games. I think I can expect more from the money that UC put into the baseball facility from this program than what it is getting and have a basis for my opinions. Nice try bullying though.

Disgusting? This team has enough talent to have one of you know it alls say they thought it could WIN 40 games this year which would put them in at-large bid territory for the NCAA tourney. They are on the verge of LOSING 40 games. Now those same guys are throwing the players under the bus except of course those guys that may get an opportunity to play some kind of professional baseball. Hang your hats on talented players but don't hate on the core of the program - those players that will not play professional baseball. Probably 95% of college baseball players.

Where does the responsibility of the coach lie? Accountability?

(05-10-2012 10:28 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Amen. I think there are more people complaining in this thread than have ever actually gone to Large Marge Stadium.

Kids and I go to 5-6 UC games a season...I really enjoy it despite the fact that most years the weather sucks goat balls. Sort of a rite of spring with my boys who live and breath the game. I just think getting bent out of shape over this stuff is silly. Sorry. I'd definitely need more spring hobbies if it came to that for me. It's freaking college baseball in Cincinnati, folks. Enjoy the decent years. Support them during the down years if you want to. But even in the salad days its never going to be the SEC. Heck, not going to be the Florence Freedom, either.

Congratulations Rath - you are about 20 games behind me a year and I also enjoy myself with friends and family at the games.

I don't expect to see any criticisms of the UC basketball or football programs from you in the future as after all it is just freaking college basketball and freaking college football. If you don't like it - take a drive up to Indy and watch some NBA or go to Paul Brown Stadium because after all those two (UC) are never going to be SEC football or basketball. By the way take a drive down to Louisville - you will see a baseball program that gets it with a facility that is on par with UCs. Then come back here and tell me why UC's baseball program can not be at a higher level than it is.

You really don't understand why UC is not competing on the same level as Louisville? No one needs to drive down there to give you that answer.

Well - UC did win today, 5-2, so that's good.

(05-11-2012 05:01 PM)subflea Wrote:  You really don't understand why UC is not competing on the same level as Louisville? No one needs to drive down there to give you that answer.

You seem to have all the answers. Tell me why UC cannot have a program that competes at a higher level than it does. That was my question. You don't even have to discuss your buddy in the dugout.

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Louisville prints cash.